Go West Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Simplest way to determine if carbine or rifle is: generally speaking barrel bands = carbine, forearm cap = rifle. Carbines generally 20" or less with a round barrel. Trapper models are typically 16". May or may not have saddle ring or ladder sight. Rifles are generally 18" or longer. Short rifles are 20" or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Hooker Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Simplest way to determine if carbine or rifle is: generally speaking barrel bands = carbine, forearm cap = rifle. Carbines generally 20" or less with a round barrel. Trapper models are typically 16". May or may not have saddle ring or ladder sight. Rifles are generally 18" or longer. Short rifles are 20" or less. Also, rifle will usually have a crescent buttplate, carbine a more-gently-curved, "S"-shped buttplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It can be confusing to know that a long gun is a "rifle" or a "carbine." When you are comparing examples of a specific type of gun ... say, a Model 1873 Winchester ... it is usually easy to tell the difference. However, with all the variations turned out by Uberti after the fact and those created by aftermarket gunsmiths, you can find examples that fit into both categories. As stated, buttstocks, barrel bands&caps and saddle rings are indicators for the '73, but they are not sure indicators with the Uberti guns vs. the original Winchester guns. In my view, generally (but not always) a "carbine" is a short version of a rifle from the same gene pool, with most parts interchangeable and firing the same round. For example, I have a Chinese SKS "paratrooper" (yeah, sure) carbine; a short version of the SKS rifle, probably made for export to the US market. It's obviously a carbine as compared to the rifle. Basically, most of the parts are interchangeable and it fires the 7.62x39mm Russian military cartridge. BUT, despite the example above, a "carbine" can be a specific gun unto itself, as well. Take a look at the US M1 Carbine. This gun is not a cut-down version of the M1 Rifle (the Garand). The M1 Carbine looks like a baby Garand, but the similarity ends there. There is no interchangeability of parts and they fire different cartridges. It's called a carbine because it is short, light in weight and fires a small, lightweight .30 caliber round. There are plenty of other benchmarks to use when making the call, "rifle" vs. "carbine," and again, may take a close look to make the call sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 dupe deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Here's the strangest looking carbine I have ever seen. Take a look at the barrel length. Has the carbine stock, barrel bands etc. and a LONG skinny barrel. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1050578.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Here's the strangest looking carbine I have ever seen. Take a look at the barrel length. Has the carbine stock, barrel bands etc. and a LONG skinny barrel. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1050578.jpg that's weird. Where'd you find that? Maybe the Lightning itself was considered a carbine and all the factory variations, regardless of wood and barrels were still considered carbines? But, again it's a Uberti and they they do a lot of variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 that's weird. Where'd you find that? Maybe the Lightning itself was considered a carbine and all the factory variations, regardless of wood and barrels were still considered carbines? But, again it's a Uberti and they they do a lot of variations. Nope, I have lots of Lightnings, original and reproductiion, rifles and traditional looking carbines. This is a creation of Uberti. I found it at EOT two years ago. So weird I had to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 What if you're a midget? Or disproportionately tall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 What if you're a midget? Or disproportionately tall? You may have a future with Barnum and Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 What if you're a midget? Or disproportionately tall? Well then, if you are a midget use a rifle and if you are disproportionately tall use a carbine. Shoot on the same possee to keep the conversation lively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordnancebob Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 It can be confusing to know that a long gun is a "rifle" or a "carbine." When you are comparing examples of a specific type of gun ... say, a Model 1873 Winchester ... it is usually easy to tell the difference. However, with all the variations turned out by Uberti after the fact and those created by aftermarket gunsmiths, you can find examples that fit into both categories. As stated, buttstocks, barrel bands&caps and saddle rings are indicators for the '73, but they are not sure indicators with the Uberti guns vs. the original Winchester guns. In my view, generally (but not always) a "carbine" is a short version of a rifle from the same gene pool, with most parts interchangeable and firing the same round. For example, I have a Chinese SKS "paratrooper" (yeah, sure) carbine; a short version of the SKS rifle, probably made for export to the US market. It's obviously a carbine as compared to the rifle. Basically, most of the parts are interchangeable and it fires the 7.62x39mm Russian military cartridge. BUT, despite the example above, a "carbine" can be a specific gun unto itself, as well. Take a look at the US M1 Carbine. This gun is not a cut-down version of the M1 Rifle (the Garand). The M1 Carbine looks like a baby Garand, but the similarity ends there. There is no interchangeability of parts and they fire different cartridges. It's called a carbine because it is short, light in weight and fires a small, lightweight .30 caliber round. There are plenty of other benchmarks to use when making the call, "rifle" vs. "carbine," and again, may take a close look to make the call sometimes. The SKS is a carbine, Thats what the K stands for! Samozaryadnyj Karabin sistemy Simonova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Nope, I have lots of Lightnings, original and reproductiion, rifles and traditional looking carbines. This is a creation of Uberti. I found it at EOT two years ago. So weird I had to have it. Larson, have you ever seen a Lightning Musket? I have a friend that has an original Lightning Musket, if I remember correctly it even has a bayonet attchment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 If the manufacturer calls it a carbine...it's a carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Also, rifle will usually have a crescent buttplate, carbine a more-gently-curved, "S"-shped buttplate. An then, things can happen such as I have mounted the crecent shaped butt plate stock on my 1866 carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Since almost ALL carbines are a type of rifle (the exceptions being those that are muskets), it would not be improper to refer to a carbine as a rifle. It might be a tad confusing to do so if one were to refer to a M-1 Carbine as a rifle, or a M-1 Tanker as a carbine.. But, would it be "incorrect"? I can accurately state that I have 24 Winchester mdl 94 rifles; of those, 15 are carbines, and 3 of the carbines are Trappers! And Go West, the earliest Winchester Trappers had barrels of LESS than 16". IIRC it was the NFA of 1934 that mandated rifles & shotguns bbls had to be 18" or >. The law also required the registration of all NFA firearms with the Secretary of the Treasury. Firearms subject to the 1934 Act included shotguns and rifles having barrels less than 18 inches in length, certain firearms described as “any other weapons,” machineguns, and firearm mufflers and silencers. From the ATF's website. Worth reading and familarizing yourself with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G #1840 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Carbine is a term used to distinguish military infantry rifles/muskets from the shorter, lighter longarms used by Cavalry, Dragoons etc. They typically had a sling that was worn across the shoulder and could be fired without removing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 What if you're a midget? Or disproportionately tall? A midget would use a Mare's Leg as a rifle. A giant would use a "musket" version of a '73. At least, that's my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Simplest way to determine if carbine or rifle is: generally speaking barrel bands = carbine, forearm cap = rifle. Carbines generally 20" or less with a round barrel. Trapper models are typically 16". May or may not have saddle ring or ladder sight. Rifles are generally 18" or longer. Short rifles are 20" or less. Of course there's always one example that contradicts all standards. The Winchester Model 1876 Carbine (Centennial Model) breaks all the rules. It has a barrel band and a forearm cap, The round barrel is 22 inches long. Centennial Carbine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivory Jack, #8534 LTG Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Whoopsie! Double tap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 The SKS is a carbine, Thats what the K stands for! Samozaryadnyj Karabin sistemy Simonova Sooo, are you suggesting my gun is a Karabin carbine. Whut Th' Hey!? I just won't tell those paratroopers; they got enough to worry about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 If the manufacturer calls it a carbine...it's a carbine. :lol:/> Correct!! Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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