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The Great Gun Debate


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Well, some of you may have heard that up in these parts, we have a few folks who are not gun friendly....

 

I had lunch with one of my partners yesterday. I've known from day one that his politics are left of PETA, but he is a solid fellow, a great lawyer, and a great friend. I overlook the politics and we don't get into heavy political debate during our work.

 

But I couldn't resist yesterday. We were talking about what was likely to change since the election, and when he said, "Of course, we'll finally see an Assault Weapons Ban again", my ears pricked up a bit. "So.." says I, the laid-back cross examiner, "what exactly will that mean to us?"

 

"Less violence in the streets, an end to gang shootings, and some sanity" says he. Whoo, boy...game on.

 

In five minutes, it became clear that he knew nothing about guns; he had been spoon-fed the anti-gun liturgy and the media scare routines, and swallowed it all. And his total lack of technical knowledge placed him at a huge disadvantage is debating what laws might be meaningful and which (most) were not. At one point, he got so frustrated he screamed "Well, then let's ban them all!" (The response of a man who can't distinguish real threats from apparent ones.)

 

In the end, we had a really decent exchnage, and there is a trace of understanding beginning to break. But we haven't even reached the concept that a free people need to be armed to deter tyranny, and I have a feeling that he will be slow to accept that precept. But my main goal is to get him to the range; fun tops prejudice 9 times out of 10.

 

Points learned in the exchange (most of which surprised me - this is a VERY intelligent guy - just brainwashed on this topic (and a few related topics as well):

 

First - he is just plain SCARED of guns; years of media reports of shootings, government condemnation of gun ownership, and social unacceptablity of gun use has convinced him that the damn things will jump up off the table and hurt him; fear without rational basis; And he admits it.

 

Second - he has been fed, and has never questioned, that the NRA is the Devil incarnate; they want our children to own machine guns; they want pets to be used for range targets; they want gun owners to be able to own nuclear weapons. Getting him past this is going to be like persuading one of us that ACORN has some redeeming qualities...

 

Third - he has never met anyone willing or able to sit with him and calmly discuss the truths and the lies; like most of us, he associates primarily with folks of similar backgrounds, and so they mutually reinforce each other's beliefs, rather than testing and challanging and learning. He was not stupid or irrational; just uneducated and inexperienced.

 

Next step in the re-education program....get him to hold a gun at the range. I'm thinking of using a 10/22 as his introduction; not an evil black rifle, simple, quiet, no recoil, unthreatening, and a hoot to punch paper and smack cans at 50 yards.

 

It ain't mass zombie killing, but I aim to pick them off, one at a time, with words and understanding.

 

LL

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Good for you, LL. Fight the good fight with honey not vinegar. People are shocked when gun owners are rational, sane, safety conscious, well-thought people that they know. They're more liable to listen and even participate (all the while disavowing any personal "NEED" for such instruments of paranoia).

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Good luck. Even if you don't cange his mind, you will give him some things to seriously think about.

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Good luck.

A Bolt Action Rifle might be easier than a semi auto.

A lever 22 would be good also, ties into westerns.

A semi auto might suggest too rapid a fire rate and does not really relate to hunting.

Which I (personally) see as the root history of gun ownership.

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Good on you! I have done the same thing with some anti-gun docs. Most medical organizations are anti-gun, including the American Academy of Family Practice. Most docs look at me with the deer in the headlights look, but I have gotten a few out to the range over the years. :)/>

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I guess you mean a Ted Kennedy Dem. When I hear "Kennedy Democrat" I think of JF Kennedy, who was pro-gun.

 

+1

 

 

 

eGG

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Have a friend of the family that WAS afraid of guns and thought no one needed to own one.I finally talked her into going shooting one time and then if she still felt that way I wouldn't argue with her about it anymore.So,off we went to the range.Took a 22 rifle,2 22 handguns,1 single action and 1 semi auto.My 6inch Smith 357(with 38 loads) and my SxS with cowboy loads.After the rifle was empty,she asked me if it'd be ok to shoot it again.DUH...yeah.So,2 50 round boxes of 22's later she was ready to try something bigger.After she had shot all of them,the only one she didn't like(because of the noise mostly) was my SxS.She's been shooting the same guns with me a few times since.There is hope.

 

On a side note...I always maintained that if Ted had lost an election,he could always get a job as a swimming instructor.

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I have been have the same experience with an asst atty general for NY....went to school with him...another cowboy and I have been discussing our beliefs about gun control with him, who is anti....it's been very interesting...

 

 

Cheyenne

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I have been have the same experience with an asst atty general for NY....went to school with him...another cowboy and I have been discussing our beliefs about gun control with him, who is anti....it's been very interesting...

 

 

Cheyenne

 

The trick is to stay calm and rational, draw them out and get them to pinpoint why THEY don't like guns. Get them to really look at what they are saying and what they really know, not just the parroted talking points they use. I was talking with an ER nurse who was very anti-firearm and pointed out to her that bicycles are responsible for over half a million deaths and injuries per year. She got a blank look and said, "You know, I see a lot of bike and skateboard injuries, but I've only seen two or three gunshot wounds. I never thought of it before." She did decline my invitation to put on some ear and eye protection and try a few shots though.

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About a decade ago I had the opportunity to take a family from Scotland to our local shooting range. It just so happened that the range was very busy that day and there were black powder shooters, handgun shooters, so called assault rifle shooters and the trap range was in use. These folks were absolutely amazed that we were able to do this, in Scotland they are force fed how everyone who is not a policeman and has a gun is out shooting people. I explained to them that there would probably be 10,000 rounds fired there that day and no one got shot and this is happening all over the country on a daily basis. We probably shot for three hours and after all the ammo that I brought was gone other shooters on the rifle and pistol range let them shoot their guns. Needless to say they had a pro gun outlook when they went back to Scotland.

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My deputy at work is a liberal (oddly enough) from the liberal portion of Eastern Missouri. He's big on the assault weapons ban, but not necessarily down on firearms generally.

 

About my next move is to get him to the range, with a .22, and my newly finished AR-15. You have to bring them along slowly and show that gun owners aren't the scary nuts we're caricatured as by the biased media.

 

It's been fun, though, because he's a bit of a ranter and he was going on about how gun-store shelves were "empty, empty, I tell you, now that Obama is reelected and these people are certain someone is going to knock on their door and take their guns." As it happened, I'd been at two different gun stores the evening before and hadn't seen any empty shelves. He was able to find one, East Coast, newspaper account documenting in his views -- I left him with a little insight into the bias gun owners face as a result of this sort of reportage.

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ever hear this arguement for gun control,,,,guns make suicide more effective,,,,they don't get to re-think the issue.....

 

sorta like the incident I had to deal with once,,,woman pulled in front of a train,,that dint work, so,,,she pulled onto the berm on the turnpike, cracked her door and peered back and waited for a semi and dove out in front of it...that one worked, and tha's the one I had to deal with. Poor trucker dropped his trailer, a lowboy, at the plaza and told his company to come get it and he would let them know later what he was doing.

 

when they use the suicide arguement you know that they are grasping at straws....

 

cheyenne

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oops

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Good for you Loophole. As someone else suggested, use a bolt .22. When someone is scared of being in a car....don't start them out with a Ferrari to cure their fears. Not that a 10/22 is a Ferrari, but you get the point.

 

CS

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Whatever guns you chose, PLEASE take him someplace where it will be just you and him shooting alone. Hard to find maybe but for crying out loud you don't need some A-H@@@ with a .375 H&H in the bay next to you on the right and a yahoo with dozen kids on left.

 

...you can get the picture...

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