Buckhorn Bud Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just a quick 'why' would CCI not address an issue that has been common knowledge for at least well over a decade? Is there perhaps a niche application for their #10s that I do not know about? Perhaps the CCI #10s fit the small .31 Colts or Remmies, anyone know?? Of all the dumb ideas, I went and used cap and ball for the first time in years and done it at a Regional this past weekend and caps/nipples were a small part of an overall equipment 'train wreck'. It is not like riding a bike, you must be familiar with your equipment. But this will be fodder fer another post(s) as I try to sort everything out and move back to cap and ball as my primary! Evan after only taking a couple of months off to avoid shooting in the heat of the desert summer I had several issues. At The Gunfight behind the Jersey Lilly I had at least one lost cap out of every stage. On the first one I recapped it to avoid the miss. I was so intent on making up the miss that once I finished with the revolver I placed it on the table earning a P. (I'd have been better off taking the miss.) It wasn't until I got home that I discovered I had #11 caps with me instead of #10. I had other issues too but it's not worth getting into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's kinda funny they way those things work. The year I went to EOT I fired 120 rounds without a mishap. Back in August at Badlands Bar 3 I had a 2 minute stage. A FTF with both guns while shooting gunfighter. Perseverance finally paid off, but my thumbs were really tired after going around one more time on my '51 and three times on my '60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 A FTF with both guns while shooting gunfighter. Have I missed something?? I did not think shooting Gunfighter style was permitted with percussion revolvers. Did the rule change? If so, I'm gonna try i!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Have I missed something?? I did not think shooting Gunfighter style was permitted with percussion revolvers. Did the rule change? If so, I'm gonna try i!! It's not legal for frontiersman but precussion revolvers are legal for any category even gunfighter. I shoot gunfighter style all the time with my precussion revolvers. Our local club even has a Cap-&-Ball gunfighter category. Sometimes I even have competition in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 J-Bar Cap n ball gunfighter is about the most fun ya can have. I shoot my 1860 snubbies GF as often as possible. Avenging Angels at Work! --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caprock Leatherneck, SASS #54382 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 J-Bar Cap n ball gunfighter is about the most fun ya can have. I shoot my 1860 snubbies GF as often as possible. Avenging Angels at Work! --Dawg Alright Dawg,now youve done it. I was going to get a little faster at Frontiersman.But,since gunfighter is my first love here goes. C+B Gunfighter here I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Alright Dawg,now youve done it. I was going to get a little faster at Frontiersman.But,since gunfighter is my first love here goes. C+B Gunfighter here I come. Gunfighter is my favorite shooting style but my Remintons are my favorite revolvers. Maybe we can get enough of us to make it a SASS category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Tex did it for years, if he can I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Gentlemen I am delighted to learn this, but I fear for my mind. Long ago in the dark ages of SASS was there not a SASS rule that cap and ball revolvers could not be shot Gunfighter style?...some concern about needing both hands to clear a cap jam when it occurs... Or was that just perhaps a local club rule that I misinterpreted to be a SASS rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Gentlemen I am delighted to learn this, but I fear for my mind.Long ago in the dark ages of SASS was there not a SASS rule that cap and ball revolvers could not be shot Gunfighter style?...some concern about needing both hands to clear a cap jam when it occurs... Or was that just perhaps a local club rule that I misinterpreted to be a SASS rule? Cap & Ball has been legal in ANY SASS category for as long as I've played. The only caveat that I'm aware of, was that ROA's with adjustable sights had to be in Modern. C&B even allowed in B-Western; and what's more "Classic Cowboy" than a pair of C&Bs? Musta been a local rule. I've shot GF quite a few times with my '51s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 From shooters handbook pg 13 Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Check with your local club. If there's no rule against it then I'd say it's legal. If it's legal you owe it to yourself to take the plunge. But I'll warn you.... You may get hooked and never go back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Guys, during the course of the weekend match I had three chain fires, all were two rounds with one trigger pull. These were the first chain fires ever, for me, BUT the guns were pretty new with only a couple of cylinders fired from each. After it happened the second time (one time each on stages two and three) it was quickly decided as probably caused by caps becoming dislodged and exposing a nipple. A generous pard came forward and offered a pack of 'cap guards', which helped a great deal BUT on day two of the match a third chain fire happened once with a cap guard in place! Also on day two, while using the cap guards, I had caps pop with no load ignition on two different chambers of one cylinder. Replaced the caps and both fired on the second cap. The details were: a pair of Pietta Remingtons being used with a total of ten preloaded cylinders and all stock nipples. I would have to obtain a dealership price to do that many Slix Shots but am considering this as an option. I was using Remington #10 caps and they seemed to seat reasonably tight, with the last oomph being provided by an antler tip. So, did the cap guards work, perhaps in a limited way? I think that more range time is definitely in order to figure out some of this and the biggest lesson would be, do not break in new guns at a regional match! Other than the ignition problems I really liked shooting these new short barl 44s. I am not a big fan of the grip ergonomics but there are just so many other positives in old Eliphalet Remingtons design that make it stand out amongst the other principal cap and ball era pistols. I have looked over several of my old cap and ball supplier links and have not found the packets of 'cap guards' listed, anyone know of a mail order source. Perhaps I might can find some aquarium tubing somewhere that will work? Now to get back to cleaning guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Guys, during the course of the weekend match I had three chain fires, all were two rounds with one trigger pull. These were the first chain fires ever, for me, BUT the guns were pretty new with only a couple of cylinders fired from each. After it happened the second time (one time each on stages two and three) it was quickly decided as probably caused by caps becoming dislodged and exposing a nipple. A generous pard came forward and offered a pack of 'cap guards', which helped a great deal BUT on day two of the match a third chain fire happened once with a cap guard in place! Also on day two, while using the cap guards, I had caps pop with no load ignition on two different chambers of one cylinder. Replaced the caps and both fired on the second cap. You didn't say how many stages per day you had. Six stages a day seem to be typical although some only have five. If there were six stages that means that you would have had to reload one time with ten cylinders. Is there any chance that all three chain fires were on the same cylinder? If so the cylinder itself is probaly the issue. I understand about the cost of replacing that many nipples. I've been collecting cylinders for two years. So far I'm up to eight cylinders and at $35 per cylinder for nipples that's a lot of money. It is worth it though. (Shhhh.... I think Santa is bringing 4 more cylinders complete with Treso nipples. She's not as good at keeping a secret as she thinks she is.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 How were the cylinders loaded? Been shooting C&B in CAS since 1986, and have never had a chain fire. Almost always charge six and cap five. Did your balls get a ring of lead shaved off as you chambered them? Do you use a wonderwad between powder & ball and/or a healthy dollop of grease over the top of the ball the ensure the front of the cylinder was well sealed from the flames? I use a .375 diameter ball in my Colts. Some clones of the same make, different eras will require .380 balls to get that shaved ring of lead. Any chain fire I've witnessed was from no "ring" 'round the chamber mouth or no grease. I've seen the ".44"s take from .443 to .457 to get that shaved ring as the ball is seated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Gentlemen I am delighted to learn this, but I fear for my mind. Long ago in the dark ages of SASS was there not a SASS rule that cap and ball revolvers could not be shot Gunfighter style?...some concern about needing both hands to clear a cap jam when it occurs... Or was that just perhaps a local club rule that I misinterpreted to be a SASS rule? Local rule!!--Surprised? I'm thinking Outlaw! Since all of the hot shots are moving to Frontiersman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Local rule!!--Surprised? Ha! Dean and Robin strike again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Gentlemen I am delighted to learn this, but I fear for my mind. Long ago in the dark ages of SASS was there not a SASS rule that cap and ball revolvers could not be shot Gunfighter style?...some concern about needing both hands to clear a cap jam when it occurs... Or was that just perhaps a local club rule that I misinterpreted to be a SASS rule? Hi J, Griff has been around longer than most, so he must know. Anyway, I was also concerned about a GF clearing a jam in a percussion pistol. Until it was explained that the GF just finished shooting the functioning pistol, holstered it, cleared the jam, and finished the scenario with the now un-jammed pistol. This can be tricky though. Switching a plan in the middle of shooting can be difficult when shooting GF style. Bravo to those who can do it. P to those who can't. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Hi J, Griff has been around longer than most, so he must know. Anyway, I was also concerned about a GF clearing a jam in a percussion pistol. Until it was explained that the GF just finished shooting the functioning pistol, holstered it, cleared the jam, and finished the scenario with the now un-jammed pistol. This can be tricky though. Switching a plan in the middle of shooting can be difficult when shooting GF style. Bravo to those who can do it. P to those who can't. Regards, Allie Mo Yep, I've done that a few times. I even lost a cap shooting gunfighter at an annual match. I finished with both revolvers, put the empty one away, recapped the still charged chamber and shot the last target for a clean stage. The timing opporator diddn't believe I knew which nipple to cap but I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Ha! Dean and Robin strike again!! Mojor bummer. Maybe time to educate the locals. Tell them what Allie said. It's covered quite a bit in another thread but it says basically the same thing, shoot the working gun dry, put it away, clear the issue, finish the stage. If it's a split revolver stage there's a place to stage the one while clearing the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOUBLE OUGHT HAGEN SASS#74836 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Slowhand Bob Interested in details regarding your Loading Routine and the "ChainFires" I shoot Shoot Pietta 58s and Preload 8 before each Match, so as you can imagine I am very interested. Thanks 00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I have a little bit of history with the cap and balls butnothing serious until the late ninetys when I started useing some 58s as my primary pistols. This was the first time I have ever had a chain fire BUT these were new guns as I had sold all of my cap guns when I changed over to Frontier cartridge, almost ten years ago. Match was ten stages, five per day, with ten cylinders loaded, five chambers, each preceding night on a POWDER INC ball press. Each nipple was picked and swabbed with a pipe cleaner before loading. There was a neat little ring of lead after ramming each ball. Caps were inserted at loading table with a Ted Cash in-line capper. I have never used over shot wads in years past but did always use a dob of Crisco on top. This was my first time not using anything on top of the ball. I decided to spray the front end with Ballistol between cylinder swaps and this did keep things very well lubed. For years I have believed that virtually all chain fires occur at the rear of the cylinder and not the front. I still believe this, after having seen so much evidence showing that this is where most of the fire occurs and the belief that the cylinder front is always sealed far more securely than the rear, no matter how well fitting the caps! The one mystery for me is the idea that on day two one chain fire did seem to happen with a cap guard. Is it possible that my technique allowed me to miss placing one cap guard and that was coincidentally the one nipple that did not hold its cap firmly?? Always open to more help and suggestions guys. I do plan to look into a process by which I can try the new style nipples on these guns, as funds allow. I also plan to start using overshot grease again, for several reasons. I was told of a method to make the Crisco less messy here in the Souths summers heat. I do not plan to make cap guards a part of the future plan but do want to get a few packs, just in case, if I can find a source. Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Try this site for cap guards. http://www.southernhuntingsupplies.com/remington_capguards_.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Number4 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I have been playing with the C&B pistols for quite awhile as well. What I discovered and was told several times is to load with this order: Powder, wad, ball; then grease if you like. Using that system I have never had a chainfire. On another note, the only gun I have worked on that had intermittent chainfires had a cracked cylinder! New cylinder solved the situation. I did some "testing" for chainfire being caused by a missing cap. I loaded all 6 and capped only one, then capped another and did this numerous times.. No chainfire after at least 10-12 cylinder loads. I do know that with the new nipples I use, the dessign does inhibit cross sparks better than most others. BTW: I do not use any cap guards or mahatten modification, only weld up the lock notch on the hammer face, that is all. I will say that the pistols are very well tuned. Your mileage may vary. Ol' #4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If you do the Pettifogger modifications & tune-up to your Pietta or Uberti Colts & replace the stock nipples with the new "Slix-Shots you will have a very nice match ready C&B Revolver. As stated by Pettifogger, the C&B Pietta's & Uberti's are "Deluxe Kits". and need work to function properly for CAS/SASS. I have a pair of 1851 Pietta Confederate's working very well with no issues. And have some 1860 in the re-work stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If you do the Pettifogger modifications & tune-up to your Pietta or Uberti Colts & replace the stock nipples with the new "Slix-Shots you will have a very nice match ready C&B Revolver. As stated by Pettifogger, the C&B Pietta's & Uberti's are "Deluxe Kits". and need work to function properly for CAS/SASS. I have a pair of 1851 Pietta Confederate's working very well with no issues. And have some 1860 in the re-work stage. Revolver reliability is not a problem...all of mine have been tinkered/tuned/pettifoggered suitably. The problem will be not having shot gunfighter for about 8 years, and getting some control over an arthritic left thumb. Gonna hafta (gulp) practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Gonna hafta (gulp) practice. Gamer Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckhorn Bud Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Revolver reliability is not a problem...all of mine have been tinkered/tuned/pettifoggered suitably. The problem will be not having shot gunfighter for about 8 years, and getting some control over an arthritic left thumb. Gonna hafta (gulp) practice. Practicing with a pair of .22 revolvers helped me tremendously. I think the money I saved on ammo paid for the guns. Be sure to let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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