Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Have a hankerin' to build a flintlock rifle. Any experiences here with kits...? Preferably something of a decent quality?* *The last experience I had with a kit was abysmal... a CVA "Kentucky Pistol" many years ago. Barrel rifled on one side only; wood over-inlet; metal parts that couldn't be made to mate... 'twas ugly at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Just a casual observation, most kentucky rifles are pinned to the stock unlike a hawken type that has wedges. Only time this is a real problem is at cleaning time. You can't just take the barrel out of the stock and dunk it in hot water. Removing the pins too many times might have an adverse affect on the fit of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus (Doc) Arroyo #40370 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Have a hankerin' to build a flintlock rifle. Any experiences here with kits...? Preferably something of a decent quality?* *The last experience I had with a kit was abysmal... a CVA "Kentucky Pistol" many years ago. Barrel rifled on one side only; wood over-inlet; metal parts that couldn't be made to mate... 'twas ugly at best. I have built and shot more than my fair share. Got a .50 ca Dickert sitting on the bench right now awaiting some hand-cut dovetails for the barrel tenons and sights. I have to admit starting with CVA stuff, but that was 25 years ago. There is a rule that a $500 pile of parts can be turned into a $100 pile of parts, a $500 rifle or a $1000 rifle with the same amount of labor! Badger is right, but I have found that cleaning my Pennsylvania rifle is easier than cleaning the Hawken that I no longer own. I pull the pins and re-wax the barrel channel one every year or two. Here are a few places to check out.... http://muzzleloadingforum.com/ has a great bunch of people, and a gun builders forum. http://flintlocks.com/ is the place for Jim Chambers flintlocks. http://www.longrifles-pr.com/is the link for Pecatonica River Long Rifle Supply. I got my last few stocks and component sets from here. Here's to sharp flints and white smoke!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Dan Dawkins Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 You need to be as much a woodworker as a metal worker from my limited experience and observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Excellent, Doc! Thank yew~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 You need to be as much a woodworker as a metal worker from my limited experience and observation. One good thing about bein' an old fart... back when I was in school we had shop classes for both! Heck - in high school I built a crossbow for a class project; in jr high turned a miniature cannon barrel on a lathe - as I recall, from part of an old Ford axle! Later made a miniature brass-barreled naval truck gun - actually still have that one. Sadly, when Sassparilla Kid was in high school there were zero shop classes. Did my best with the lad... he probably learned as much from his old man and "uncles" as he would've in school these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The pan flash/sparks, will give you the 'flinches'............ LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Just take your time on it and you will be proud of your work. Don't rush anything. Think small. Work small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Just take your time on it and you will be proud of your work. Don't rush anything. Think small. Work small. That's my style. Suits my small mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 That's my style. Suits my small mind... Small mind. Big guns. That's me all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 What caliber? I always fancied a .50 caliber with a roman nose stock. Kinda neat rifles. Swamped barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 What caliber? I always fancied a .50 caliber with a roman nose stock. Kinda neat rifles. Swamped barrel? Swamped barrel? Preferably!! Caliber...? Thinkin' .45. Mebbe .36.... naw, .45 would be a bit more versatile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 .45 would be my choice over a .36, but that is just me. I like things that are measured in the 40's. .44-40, .44 Special, .44 Mag, and .45 LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Have a hankerin' to build a flintlock rifle. Any experiences here with kits...? Preferably something of a decent quality?* *The last experience I had with a kit was abysmal... a CVA "Kentucky Pistol" many years ago. Barrel rifled on one side only; wood over-inlet; metal parts that couldn't be made to mate... 'twas ugly at best. Try Track Of The Wolf in Elk River MN. The are specialist in building kits and such. I know you will have better luck than yur past one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus (Doc) Arroyo #40370 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Swamped barrel? Preferably!! Caliber...? Thinkin' .45. Mebbe .36.... naw, .45 would be a bit more versatile. IMHO the .45 is not really that versatile. It is kind of a bad compromise. Usually not as accurate of a target rifle as a .40 caliber, and not as good as a hunting rifle as a .50, .54 or a .58 caliber. I have been sticking with .50's , but built a .54 and a .62 caliber rifles for friends. They are nearly as addicting as a good .22LR Hell, we show get together and make some white smoke! A friend's .54 Jeager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Have a hankerin' to build a flintlock rifle. Any experiences here with kits...? Preferably something of a decent quality?* *The last experience I had with a kit was abysmal... a CVA "Kentucky Pistol" many years ago. Barrel rifled on one side only; wood over-inlet; metal parts that couldn't be made to mate... 'twas ugly at best. They make one with rifling on the outside too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 They make one with rifling on the outside too? It shoots hollow points. Really deep hollow points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I like the forty for targets and the fifty and above for game myself but wound up having a .45 as my first one. Unless you have experience go with a 95 percent inlet stock 'kit' from track of the wolf or pecatonica. I recommend you visit an ml club and examine the rifles . Most are friendly and will answer questions. It is absolutely not necessary nor desirable to pull the barrel every time you clean. Watch the pros at a club and you'll often see it done o twenty minutes or so without a lot of gee whiz solutions. The lock, if a flinter, should be removed for routine cleaning but even this isn't necessary. It's just easier. There are lots of little tricks to the trade but it is a very rewarding experience once you're done. You'll make mistakes along the way but don't get too concerned. An old man from Georgia told me its not that you err...it's how we'll you re able to cover up the little things where even a good builder doesn't notice or he doesn't mind that you did! Don't get overly ambitious on the first rifle but don't short yourself on wood either. It takes just as much blood, sweat, and tears to properly inlet a straight grained piece of maple as it does one with figure. You'll like the latter a lot better. I wholeheartedly recommend you buy or borrow Peter Alexander's "The Gunsmith Of Greenville County: Recreating the American Longrifle". It's probably the best ever guide to building . Warning though! Shooting and studying the long rifles whether flint or caplock is one of the most fun things you'll ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hardpan, I sent you a PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Hardpan, I sent you a PM VERY cool stuff, Charlie...! Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G #1840 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Years ago I built a flintlock from scratch. Well from parts and a stock blank anyway. I used a particular rifle as a model and took my time, 6 months to do it right. Swamped barrels are nice and if you are building an early style, almost required. TotW, Chambers, TVM, Peccatonica and Sitting Fox all make excellent kits and have a wide variety of styles and options. My next flinlock will be a 20ga fowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 Cool stuff, guys... Thanks! My son's 21st birthday is next week, and I was thinking building him one as a father/son project would be kinda cool - and a good way to spend some winter hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL NEGRO GATO Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Howdy, I used to shoot a south carolina poorboy flint lock in 40 caliber it was made by my good friend jim Janack with parts from 'Track of the Wolf' in minnesota. I shot his rifle for over ten years when I was moving to New york I sold it back to Jim, he gave it to his daughter as a graduation present. Also try Dixie Gun Works they have several rifle kits ENG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I built one of the CVA kits. It came out pretty nice. Reasonably accurate, the pinned barrel wasn't really a problem. Sanded the stock down to an 800 grit, then oiled it. Polished up the brass down to 1500 grit, then Ultra-bright toothpaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Have been a BP rifle fan since I was a kid. Not the modern stuff out now but the Hawkens and Renegade styles. Beautiful and deadly. I always felt I should be walking with Jim Bridger or such. The only thing keeping me from a flintlock is a bein a durned lefty. I got ta tell ya -that big flash right a tween the eyes will give ya a flinch! Neither of my kids is left cursed so I'll stick with percussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Have been a BP rifle fan since I was a kid. Not the modern stuff out now but the Hawkens and Renegade styles. Beautiful and deadly. I always felt I should be walking with Jim Bridger or such. The only thing keeping me from a flintlock is a bein a durned lefty. I got ta tell ya -that big flash right a tween the eyes will give ya a flinch! Neither of my kids is left cursed so I'll stick with percussion. Mine are all left handed and friends that are righties enjoy shooting them because the the hammer& frizzen actually obscure the flash more. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I tried a flintlock 12 gauge at my boy's 4H class and was grateful for my glasses for sure! Gray specks all over from that pan flash. Love my percussion guns even more, specialy for huntin in the late season nasties. May pick up a flinter just cause of the cool factor and history. Like they say on the History channel "To understand history one must understand the gun" or some such like that! Good luck huntin this weekend all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I spent 12 years full time, part time, and fill-ill working for The Flintlock at Hobby City in Anaheim. While I was mostly a percussion shooter I did learn something about flinters. Two of the most important things I learned are: 1. A really good flint lock is as fast and reliable in almost all conditions as a cap lock. Find the best lock and it will fire upside down, in the rain and snow, when the wind blows, and under most conditions except under water. If you have a good lock and properly made flints and a decent barrel, the rest is secondary. 2. Most people use way to hell and gone too much powder in their pans. I've seen really excellent shooters with a pan that looked like it had a channel cut about 1/8" wide and deep...or less...and just long enough to cross the width, holding just s pinch of FFFFg powder. Too much and it burns its way through the flash hole. just right and it flashes, giving near-instantaneous ignition. I've been privileged to know some really great gun makers. John "Salvo" Salvatore in Beaufort, South Carolina, and Ray Taylor (owner of the Flintlock with his wife Jackie) and Joe (?) Sours, both from southern California stand out in my mind. Good luck on your project. POST PICTURES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 The instructor had a little measure that you pushed the spout agin the pan and it put out a little pile about the size of a dime, then closed it up. Quite a bit of flash and smoke. I have no doubt of the reliability of a flintlock for sure. If they wernt they woulda not been around so long.I have a doubt about MY reliability with a flinter LOL. And they are just inherantly beautiful and elegant to behold. Even a run of the mill example can be a work of art to me. As an aside, I just saw a "primitive" flintlock on sale at Natchez Shooter supply with a synthetic stock. Seems kinda just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Several years ago I decided my life would be complete when I bought a Flintlock. I searched until I found a 36 cal Pedersoli. (The poorest made gun I have ever owned) I could normally get about 2-3 firings from a flint. I worked with it for almost a year before a young man offered to trade a 45 cal Hawken style percussion gun for it. I grabbed the trade as quickly as I could. I ran into him several months later and he told me he had spent more on a new lock than I spent for the rifle. When you see a picture of a Mountainman going up the trail, he always has two horses. The second horse is to carry all the crap you need to keep a flinter working. Not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Made any decisions yet, Hardpan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well Charlie... So far I've changed my thinking to the .50 cal... Otherwise, still pondering - there's SO much to consider... and .50 cal swamped barrels seem a mite scarce. This is worse that buying a new truck! Question... I'm assuming the barrel should be browned. Now, I've done this before with muzzleloading pistols, but how does one heat a rifle barrel...? It ain't gonna fit in my oven~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well Charlie... So far I've changed my thinking to the .50 cal... Otherwise, still pondering - there's SO much to consider... and .50 cal swamped barrels seem a mite scarce. This is worse that buying a new truck! ^_^/> Question... I'm assuming the barrel should be browned. Now, I've done this before with muzzleloading pistols, but how does one heat a rifle barrel...? It ain't gonna fit in my oven~! :mellow:/> I've successfully browned a number of barrels with Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, hot tap water, and a lot of patience. Clean, steel wool, clean again, degrease, run water through the barrel, apply Plum Brown, let sit until dry, card, and repeat until it's the color you want. Heat again and oil inside and out while hot, let cool to room temp, oil again and wipe dry with a clean cloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sounds like Forty Rod has you covered on the browning. Not sure that a swamped barrel is all that much advantage in a .50 caliber barrel. Maybe that is why they are scarce. Perhaps someone with a tad bit more experience could fill you in. Thunking on it, and that is a dangerous thing for me, a smaller barrel bore may have some advantages unless you need the size for hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 If you're gonna hunt 50 is better. If not, there's not a thing wrong with a 40 or 45. I'm not a big fan of anything smaller than 40 myself. So here's what you do, go to Tracks webpage or get their catalog. In their "kit" rifle section they show a progression of styles and schools from French and Indian to late Percussion. You could build a rifle patterned after a famous maker or a transitional blend of many styles. I'd say build a Golden Age flinter in 40 first and then build you a Jaeger 62 to bust buffalos with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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