A question for the Military types

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I was watching the Military channel this morning, when they came on with a commercial for the Lou Diamond Phillps show, AN OFFICER AND A MOVIE. Today's offering will be THE SANDS OF IWO JIMA, staring John Wayne.

 

 

In the trailer lead in, John makes the statement "Lock and Load". Do they still use that phrase with the M16 and M4? If they do, I would guess that they would LOCK the Magazine and charge the bolt to LOAD.

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

"Lock" means put the safety on.

"Load" means insert the magazine and chamber a round.

The commands would have been in reverse order (i.e. "Load and Lock") for a Springfield or an Enfield.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Thanks.

[Pegleg Preacher]

Consider that the commands MAY have come from the flintlock era. Then it was prome the pan (lock) and charge the barrel (load). May not be correct, but it sounds plausible.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

I've been back in the First Civ. Div. for twenty years, but when I was in, The Corps still used it.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, not certain of he origin, but with the old M1 Garand, the bolt is locked back in the open position and the enbloc clip is inserted in the receiver to load. The bolt is then released and the rifle is loaded.

 

Not being familiar with the M 16 nor the M 4, I don't have a clue on how they are loaded other than the magazine is inserted into the receiver.

 

The old muzzleloaders had so many steps to load them, that two simple commands do not seem logical

to me, but what the heck do I know. Thanks for your comments.

[DocWard]

Yes, the phrase is still in use. I have heard "lock and load one twenty round magazine" during qualifying many times. My guess is that it is one of those phrases that has become engrained in the culture.

[Apache Hawk 60642]

I was watching the Military channel this morning, when they came on with a commercial for the Lou Diamond Phillps show, AN OFFICER AND A MOVIE. Today's offering will be THE SANDS OF IWO JIMA, staring John Wayne.

 

 

In the trailer lead in, John makes the statement "Lock and Load". Do they still use that phrase with the M16 and M4? If they do, I would guess that they would LOCK the Magazine and charge the bolt to LOAD.

 

 

I had used it an herded used fore an normally it was used in combat when da safety was off an meant...lock magazine an load live round fer firing .

 

 

 

[Oklahomabound]

...having heard lock and load a few times in meownself's past; I locked the bolt to the rear and on load, the bolt went forward... ...next came fire at will; open fire; etc.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Consider that the commands MAY have come from the flintlock era. Then it was prome the pan (lock) and charge the barrel (load). May not be correct, but it sounds plausible.

I heard it was a command to Lock the hammer back at the half-cock and then load the powder and ball, and prime the pan. However looking at the extensive 18th century firing commands I've not come across it/.

Could be nobody knows the exact origin.

But I know what to do when I hear it.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Then they tell you to fire at poor ole Will. He ain't never done nuttin'.

[Calico Mary]

delete, wrong thread

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

The term can be "Load and Lock" or "Lock and Load", it all depends mainly during which period your talking about and also what the main weapon was during that period. Several have gotten it correct, load is loading the weapon and lock is putting the safety on till needed. For instance the 1903 bolt could not be pulled back to load if locked, yet the M1 could with safety on. So if you were commanded to "load and Lock", you would load your weapon and lock the safety. On a M1, safety can be put on and still loaded, a lock and load command would indicate safety on and then load.

I checked a DI instructors book on this, and says the same thing, so might clarify this. MT

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Then they tell you to fire at poor ole Will. He ain't never done nuttin'.

 

I had to laugh when I heard "Fire at will" on Independence Day (the movie) considering that Will Smith was in the scene.

[Apache Hawk 60642]

Then they tell you to fire at poor ole Will. He ain't never done nuttin'.

 

 

 

Badger.......Poor ole Will do a rat smart job of dodgin' dim bullets cuz day still be friin' at him all dis time ! lol

 

 

 

[Noz]

Consider that the commands MAY have come from the flintlock era. Then it was prome the pan (lock) and charge the barrel (load). May not be correct, but it sounds plausible.

 

Whooooo. I ain't priming my pan and then looking down the barrel to load.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Good point, Noz.

[Big Jake1001]

I've NEVER heard the term used with anything to do with a Safety. USMC 1969 Boot Camp....Lock was to lock in a 20 round magazine, Load was to pull back the handle on the charging rod and let it fly home loading the weapon. This was with the M-14. A WWll M-1 Garand would be Lock in an 8 round enbloc clip, Load would be to let the Bolt go Home, loading the weapon. Safety can be either on or off to do this Lock and Load.

 

Jake

[Carolina Cowboy]

I've NEVER heard the term used with anything to do with a Safety. USMC 1969 Boot Camp....Lock was to lock in a 20 round magazine, Load was to pull back the handle on the charging rod and let it fly home loading the weapon. This was with the M-14. A WWll M-1 Garand would be Lock in an 8 round enbloc clip, Load would be to let the Bolt go Home, loading the weapon. Safety can be either on or off to do this Lock and Load.

 

Jake

 

If I remember it right, with the M16, it was "Lock" the blot back and then "Load" a mag, then the command was "frie ar will" which meant we released the bolt and was ready to start firing(but it has been a few years

[Captain Bill Burt]

The operating instructions for the M2 Browning .50 Caliber Machine Gun were to lock the bolt latch release with the bolt latch release lock (located on the recoil buffer) before loading the gun by cycling the cocking handle. If you do not lock the bolt latch release before loading, the bolt is captured to the rear by the bolt latch, as for single shot operation, and does not actually load a round.

 

Alternatively, for the M1 Garand rifle before loading the ammunition clip into the rifle, the operating rod handle is pulled to the rear until the bolt is securely locked open. According to the M1 Garand Manual, loading the clip without first locking the bolt could result in an accidental discharge of a round. In the 1943 training film (Rifle Marksmanship with M1 Rifle) the instructor orders first "Lock" then "Load".

[Diamond S Doug]

According to the American Rifleman I was reading, it says the term is from the M1 Garand. Lock the bolt back and load the rounds from a stripper clip into the rifle.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

Stripper clips are not used on the Garand. It uses an 8-round en bloc clip.

 

"Lock and Load" was used on every range I ever visited during my time with the Green Machine. Sometimes the range master would expand the command to "Lock one twenty round magazine and load the first round."

 

That was followed by either "Commence firing" or "Fire at will." Poor ol' Will. He had all the bad luck.

[Colonel Dan, SASS #24025]

We used that phrase during all my years in the Army...but keep in mind, my era ended in August 1995. However, I'd bet not much has changed in that regard.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

I suspect that the term may go back to the 03 Springfield. The Krag could be loaded from the magazine without opening the bolt as I understand. To load the Springfield and any other bolt/Mauser type action, the bolt must be opened (LOCKED) and the round is inserted into the magazine, and then the round is LOADED into the chamber. However with that said, the action of the M1 Garand lends itself to the command more readily, because the bolt must be LOCKED to the rear by the action and the clip is then inserted into the receiver and the first round is then LOADED. (Watch your thumb.)

 

Bye the bye, I have a loaded en bloc clip of 8 on my table here before me. A quick study showd how much thought went into the design of the M1 Garand by John C. Garand. The rounds are staggered in the clip so that either way the clip is inserted into the receiver the first round is always in the same location so you can not insert them in backwards in the dark or heat of action. It also does not matter if the lead round is on the left or the right, they will both feed without incident. If all goes well, and it usually does.

 

So LOCK AND LOAD, READY ON THE RIGHT, READY ON THE LEFT, READY ON THE FIRING LINE. COMMENCE FIRING. And leave Will alone.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

It also does not matter if the lead round is on the left or the right, they will both feed without incident. If all goes well, and it usually does.

 

Point of debate here, BMC. If the top round is on the left side of the clip instead of the right side like it comes from the armory, the shooter's thumb shifts left to press on the top round when loading. Yes, the clip can be put into the rifle and function, but if the shooter is not careful, his thumb nail will be ripped off by the left side of the receive. Been there. Done that.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, Charlie, I would not be one to dispute your experience, but I have never seen that happen. Of course all of the clips I have fired have been via Uncle Sugar and his supply line. Since I bought my CMP flavored rifle, I also have some clips that I have reloaded from MilSurp ammo. I will have to check to see if I have loaded all of the correctly. At least the one on my desk is correct, according to your directive.

 

I guess an old dogface can always learn something new.

[Steel-eye Steve SASS #40674]

Whooooo. I ain't priming my pan and then looking down the barrel to load.

While it sounds crazy by today's safety concerns, military flintlocks, in the 18th and 19th centuries, were loaded from paper cartridges. You bit open the end of the cartridge and then primed the pan with a small amount of powder from the cartridge. Then you loaded the rest of the powder and ball, from the cartridge, down the barrel. This method would only change after percussion weapons were adopted.