Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 This case might bear watching!SCOTUS Case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 That could be interesting. Certainly one to watch on http://www.scotusblog.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think civil disobience and barter would negate any adverse decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This is indeed a very interesting read. Worth watching which way this goes. Although, I would wager in favor of the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I would agree with ya Virgil, but with the way this world is turning, it would not surprise me going the other way. Raises questions on the sale of everything. How about cars. There are parts not made in the US so would this mean we would not be able to sell them or even trade them in??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Boys my initial thoughts revolved around firearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Ross 73372 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Boys my initial thoughts revolved around firearms My question is what did you do for a living that you are a toon to this soft of story? Having spent my working years in the "Legal" business I love this type of case. Myself I have long since learned to ignore the government laws and simply follow Gods laws. I feel that my kids world will be far worse then that change of my Fathers to mine. My Dad was driving a car for 4 years before they required a license. I am very worried about this country being taken for a ride by the world. Duke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 What a pathetic concept. But we could ask for our relatively useless congress critters to pass a law that permits it. That would force scotus to see it again in the context of the law. Congress could also pass a law that places a 100% tariff on any product without a stated affirmative resale item. BUt are the landfills ready for all the trash. Who would enforce this useless ruling. Of course scotus may also be useless on useful things. This could also be the end of ebay as we know it. And what about the garage sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This seems like a definite over-reach fueled by greed, taken to a ridiculous level. Under this doctrine, you would never really own anything - your purchase would be more of a lease. Somebody seems to have lost sight (and their common sense) of what a copyright is. It's not a lifetime license to own an item, it's just a layer of protection against somebody else copying or counterfeiting your idea or item. Kind of a lite patent, if you will. Hopefully rational thought will prevail. To decide otherwise would result in an unbelievable amount of chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Certainly such action would be a definite over reach in my oinion. It could cause an adverse effect on sale of new "protected" items if someone had to "own it for life". The solution would be to not buy any foreign made item without express written permission to sell it at will with no restrictions. Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 My question is what did you do for a living that you are a toon to this soft of story? Duke Never let it be said that working for the federal government 35 years didn't make me suspicious of government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hmmm...suddenly, no one wants foreign made goods.... And everyone wants their stuff Made in the USA.... Maybe not a bad outcome?????? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hmmm...suddenly, no one wants foreign made goods.... And everyone wants their stuff Made in the USA.... Maybe not a bad outcome?????? LL That isn't the issue. From SCOTUSblog: Issue: How do Section 602(a)(1) of the Copyright Act, which prohibits the importation of a work without the authority of the copyright’s owner, and Section 109(a) of the Copyright Act, which allows the owner of a copy “lawfully made under this title” to sell or otherwise dispose of the copy without the copyright owner’s permission, apply to a copy that was made and legally acquired abroad and then imported into the United States? http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kirtsaeng-v-john-wiley-sons-inc/ The goods in question were legally produced and Wiley got their 10% from the original sale. Does the person who had the goods legally purchased overseas and shipped to him here have the right to resell them? The understanding has always been that once aconsumer legally comes into possession of a copy of a book, he can sell it, lend it, or dispose of it as he sees fit. He does not have to secure a license from the copyright owner to do so. Indeed, it is through a common reliance upon these bedrock principles that communities across this country have embraced and cultivated our nation’s cherished rites of friendship (the loaned book) and weekend markets (garage sales). The Second Circuit’s reading of the statute grants the copyright owner exactly the right this Court rejected in Bobbs-Merrill—but only for copies that are made abroad. So long as the good is made abroad, the copyright owner enjoys unlimited downstream control over all uses of that copy. For that one category—foreign-made copies—the Second Circuit grants the copyright holder eternal control. The Second Circuit’s extreme interpretation eviscerates the whole concept of exhaustion. It affords copyright owners not just one opportunity to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As an aside, I'm curious about how - and why - publishers can and would sell textbooks abroad for 10% of the price our own students have to pay for 'em. Or, if they are indeed printed abroad under license from the publisher, why couldn't they be sold here? Actually, I think many books sold here ARE printed overseas, but still priced as if they were produced domestically. I know a certain young man who bought an engineering textbook on Ebay. Paid something like $22 for the thing. Brand-new book arrived, and on the cover was printed "For Sale and Use in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia ONLY!" However, it was the exact same book that the university bookstore was selling for something like $160. Anyone else have kids in college these days...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Taft Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 That isn't the issue. From SCOTUSblog: Issue: How do Section 602(a)(1) of the Copyright Act, which prohibits the importation of a work without the authority of the copyright’s owner, and Section 109(a) of the Copyright Act, which allows the owner of a copy “lawfully made under this title” to sell or otherwise dispose of the copy without the copyright owner’s permission, apply to a copy that was made and legally acquired abroad and then imported into the United States? http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kirtsaeng-v-john-wiley-sons-inc/ The goods in question were legally produced and Wiley got their 10% from the original sale. Does the person who had the goods legally purchased overseas and shipped to him here have the right to resell them? This question makes a lot of sense in general terms too.....What if the American Retailer is not even allow to sell under this proposal? A sad situation that might make something as simple as a book or movie a luxury that only those that can pay extra money for the importation to own. In effect we wouldn't chose to buy American but rather, be forced to buy American..... .....Which I have no problem with. and I'm sure two thirds of out of work folks would like the prospect of new employment through new American manufaturers of such products...... Think about this.......if a hypothetical (not sure if I spelled that right......or used it in the right context but...)copywritten product like a piece of religious text (enter which ever version you want here) were not allowed under this law then the practice of such things could dwindle in America......But at the same time, things of "culture" like a good book or movie made in other countries might also be restricted........ I don't know what to think of it and I'm just a simple country boy, but I can see glimmers of good and shadows of bad at the same time. But ......And there's always a but! I imagine we would lose all the good stuff but the bad will find it's way right through a loophole big enough to drive the Titanic through! It's a changing world.........I fear for my children. ~EE Taft~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As an aside, I'm curious about how - and why - publishers can and would sell textbooks abroad for 10% of the price our own students have to pay for 'em. Or, if they are indeed printed abroad under license from the publisher, why couldn't they be sold here? Actually, I think many books sold here ARE printed overseas, but still priced as if they were produced domestically. I know a certain young man who bought an engineering textbook on Ebay. Paid something like $22 for the thing. Brand-new book arrived, and on the cover was printed "For Sale and Use in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia ONLY!" However, it was the exact same book that the university bookstore was selling for something like $160. Anyone else have kids in college these days...? Very likely the books were actually printed and bound locally to sell at local market prices. The publisher screwed up big time and did not price their product properly in the context of a global economy. Either that or they are just over pricing in the USA. BTW, software companies do much the same thing. They have one way to enforce in that is it possible to physically tie the software license to the hardware serial number. It is in the license to use when you buy the product. The problem with hard copy print is that you can't put such crap in the book unless it is on-line (which is where publishing should go). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As an aside, I'm curious about how - and why - publishers can and would sell textbooks abroad for 10% of the price our own students have to pay for 'em. Or, if they are indeed printed abroad under license from the publisher, why couldn't they be sold here? Actually, I think many books sold here ARE printed overseas, but still priced as if they were produced domestically. I know a certain young man who bought an engineering textbook on Ebay. Paid something like $22 for the thing. Brand-new book arrived, and on the cover was printed "For Sale and Use in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia ONLY!" However, it was the exact same book that the university bookstore was selling for something like $160. Anyone else have kids in college these days...? I bough a used civil engineering book for surveying cost me something like $180., found an international edition on line for about $50. but was afraid to buy it because I wasn't sure if it was the same book. found out later it was, I also found out that if you have something like a Kindle you can usually find most college books in pdf for cheaper and in some cases for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As an aside, I'm curious about how - and why - publishers can and would sell textbooks abroad for 10% of the price our own students have to pay for 'em. Or, if they are indeed printed abroad under license from the publisher, why couldn't they be sold here? Actually, I think many books sold here ARE printed overseas, but still priced as if they were produced domestically. I know a certain young man who bought an engineering textbook on Ebay. Paid something like $22 for the thing. Brand-new book arrived, and on the cover was printed "For Sale and Use in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia ONLY!" However, it was the exact same book that the university bookstore was selling for something like $160. Anyone else have kids in college these days...? While considerably less expensive overseas (O/S), it wasn't only 10% of the US retail price. The publisher got a 10% cut of the O/S retail price from the licensed seller. Text books are WAY overpriced. There is a captive market for them, and minor changes result in instantly "outdated" editions, even though all the basic information is unchanged. Very likely the books were actually printed and bound locally to sell at local market prices. The publisher screwed up big time and did not price their product properly in the context of a global economy. Either that or they are just over pricing in the USA. BTW, software companies do much the same thing. They have one way to enforce in that is it possible to physically tie the software license to the hardware serial number. It is in the license to use when you buy the product. The problem with hard copy print is that you can't put such crap in the book unless it is on-line (which is where publishing should go). That is exactly it. There is no way a hard back, 300 page book should retail for $200 or more. But, with the captive, almost forced, market for text books, they can pretty much run up the price all they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 While considerably less expensive overseas (O/S), it wasn't only 10% of the US retail price. The publisher got a 10% cut of the O/S retail price from the licensed seller. Text books are WAY overpriced. There is a captive market for them, and minor changes result in instantly "outdated" editions, even though all the basic information is unchanged. ...There is no way a hard back, 300 page book should retail for $200 or more. But, with the captive, almost forced, market for text books, they can pretty much run up the price all they want. Truly. After all, unless I missed the news flash, nobody's suddenly discovered that Euclid, Pythagoras, and Theaetetus were wrong...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 While considerably less expensive overseas (O/S), it wasn't only 10% of the US retail price. The publisher got a 10% cut of the O/S retail price from the licensed seller. Text books are WAY overpriced. There is a captive market for them, and minor changes result in instantly "outdated" editions, even though all the basic information is unchanged. That is exactly it. There is no way a hard back, 300 page book should retail for $200 or more. But, with the captive, almost forced, market for text books, they can pretty much run up the price all they want. As a senior in the late sixties I had textbooks that cost me more than the tuition! What a racket! The mafia would be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Truly. After all, unless I missed the news flash, nobody's suddenly discovered that Euclid, Pythagoras, and Theaetetus were wrong...! Theoretically anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 As a senior in the late sixties I had textbooks that cost me more than the tuition! What a racket! The mafia would be proud. Tell me about it!!! Money Ellen got for graduation gifts paid for the first year books, and a small scholarship from her middle school took care of this year's books. Next year she's gonna have to look into possible alternatives, mom and dad's paychecks only stretch so far..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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