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Northeast regional


Red River Ray SASS#33254

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I think you are selling Winter range short. The draw is for FAR MORE than the national championship. I'm going this year, not because it's the national championship, though it's cool to be able to say I'm going to nationals, it's because of the reputation that the match has earned with the rank and file shooters.

 

Bet the folks at WR would really throw a fit if you moved it every year.

OR even evderyother year.

They would not go for that at all.

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It was time consuming, expensive and we don't necessarily shoot our best in the high-altitude and dusty conditions (especially when you are use to 80% humidity at 150' above sea level).Dang It

 

You sure you are not thinking of EOT? I don't consider 1100 feet to be high elevation, but some may I guess. And dust has not been my experience for the last three Winter Ranges, YMMV. I have been in Phoenix in hot dusty conditions....in the summer.

The Wild Bunch will do whatever it wants, so will I.

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I realize there's not a single large hotel in Sparta but There's over 600 motel rooms within a half hours drive of the range. How many more do you think are needed?

There must have been some hotels go up. I thought a lot of those rooms were over 40 min away. If that is the case 600 rooms are way more rooms than you'll ever need. Probably 200 rooms would be plenty.

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Al, here's the numbers

 

WR - 750 sells out every year historically for the national championship.

 

The match formerly known as the NE Regional, which will become the Eastern Nationals, this year had approx 303 shooters.

 

Will there be some folks that choose to go to the East National instead of Winter Range, sure, would even more go if in alternating years it was the only National, yes. Would that translate to WR dropping to near nothing? No way. I beleive that the rank and file shooters go for the match, due to Reputation, Location, and Schedule. Case in point, I attended CaC the last two years, even though even if I was competitive I'd not be in the running for the regional awards.

 

Anyway there isn't any sure fire way of predicting how it will shake out. To me in comes down to watering down the weight of a national championship.

Hey Joe Bob, I hear you're the national champion

Yeah, well, the Western National Champion anyway.

Western Champ? Then who is the overall national champ.

There isn't one.

So really you are the western regional champ then.

Yeah, I guess that's pretty much the jist of it.

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Gang, like it or not, the decision has been made. The SASS Eastern National, The Mason Dixon Stampede, will be held at Thurmont, Maryland. The SASS Western National, Winter Range, will be held at Phoenix, Arizona.

 

Winter Range is shot in March, The Mason Dixon Stampede is shot in October. If a shooter chooses to attend one, or both matches, then so be it. There will be nobody manning the gates at the ranges, demanding to see the shooter's driver's license, and turning them away if they're not from the proper area of the country. Very likely, the attendance at Winter Range will not change, and the attendance at The Mason Dixon Stampede will increase... what's not to like about that?

 

The people that enjoy going to Winter Range will still continue to go to the match, and I'm sure they'll continue to sell out the match as well.

 

As for The Mason Dixon Stampede, the match will grow in size, as it will be growing from a regional match to a national match. The people that enjoy going to the match will still enjoy going to the match, and we'll all welcome all the new shooters who will be attending the match.

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There must have been some hotels go up. I thought a lot of those rooms were over 40 min away. If that is the case 600 rooms are way more rooms than you'll ever need. Probably 200 rooms would be plenty.

Nope, there were that many rooms as far back as 2005. The only problem is they're scattered with 12 rooms here, 20 rooms there, etc. I wasn't even considering the rooms that are in St. Louis, MO which is 45-60 minutes away. But even if they were 40 minutes away, so what?

 

How many minutes away are most people that go to Winter Range for example? I know when I went back in 2006 I was staying at a hotel at least 30 minutes away when you consider the traffic. How many minutes away are the motel rooms from the range at Guns of August? Even if they're 15 minutes away and in Sparta they're 30 minutes away, does that 15 extra minutes make that much difference to someone that's come over a 1,000 miles to shoot a match? Heck, it never ceases to amaze me when I go to match how many people show up an hour or more earlier than they have to anyway so is an extra 15 minutes a deal breaker? Where do folks stay when they go to Gunsmoke in Minnesota? Most motels are close to a half hour away and that doesn't seem to stop too many people from attending.

 

I'm not advocating Sparta for a National or any other match for that matter. I was simply pointing out that it's one of the largest and best facilities in the country. About the only thing I see that it's lacking is the scenery and the weather.

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With all due respect, what does this have to do with anything? So by spliting the National Championships...we're moving towards unfun...Cowboy IDPA...????? But you probably mean Cowboy IPSC...?????

 

How is your idea for a Circuit more cost effiecent?

 

I'm confuzelled....

 

Phantom,

 

You are right. I am not trying to build a circuit, we already have one. Win state you go to your regional free, win there you go to EOT free.

 

I just shot our state and the posse I was on didn't have one problem with the match. They were happy and told me they liked not having people trying to game the stages on their posse. Everybody shot the stage the way it was stated to be shot and not one said "well that is not what the book said or didn't say. It was like the way the game was played before you started. This game was not built on winning except for bragging rights with your friends.

 

I see us drifting ever so slowly away from that. Now do we really need two National matches? I do not think it will fly, but I've been wrong before and if I hadn't (been wrong before) I'd be rich today.

 

The middle of the pack shooters (the shooters out of the top 20%) go to matches because of the fun they have. Sure the shooters going to Mason/Dixon Stampede that like that match will continue to support it but will it really draw more middle shooters? These are the ones that the match needs to make money. Winter Range will continue to draw the ones that go there for the fun. Will they lose any because of the split maybe a few. Winter Range sells out because the middle of the pack shooters make it sell out not because it is the National Match.

 

The real question is what does this accomplish? Does it improve SASS?

 

Just my thoughts,

BW

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Gang, like it or not, the decision has been made. The SASS Eastern National, The Mason Dixon Stampede, will be held at Thurmont, Maryland. The SASS Western National, Winter Range, will be held at Phoenix, Arizona.

 

Winter Range is shot in March, The Mason Dixon Stampede is shot in October. If a shooter chooses to attend one, or both matches, then so be it. There will be nobody manning the gates at the ranges, demanding to see the shooter's driver's license, and turning them away if they're not from the proper area of the country. Very likely, the attendance at Winter Range will not change, and the attendance at The Mason Dixon Stampede will increase... what's not to like about that?

 

The people that enjoy going to Winter Range will still continue to go to the match, and I'm sure they'll continue to sell out the match as well.

 

As for The Mason Dixon Stampede, the match will grow in size, as it will be growing from a regional match to a national match. The people that enjoy going to the match will still enjoy going to the match, and we'll all welcome all the new shooters who will be attending the match.

 

I have say if they do this which sounds like that it's a done deal, once they draw the line for the West and East Nationals, there should be somebody checking driver licenses, they should have rules similar to rules used for Regionals, if your not from that region sure you can win, but you can't be the regional winner, only fair if your going divide county into two parts.

 

KK

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The last to know is apparently those of us on the Winter Range Board. There was absolutely no discusion with the WR Board or warning of this decision. We learned of it here on the SASS Wire.

 

 

Yep... I sure had no idea either. One thing that I do know is this: Business is business and SASS is a business. It always has been and always will be. Like any business, good decisions must be made if it is to prosper. We all hope for and want a strong SASS. It provides us with a bond that keeps us all on the same plane of existence.

 

We must remember, however, that SASS and CAS are not necessarily the same thing. CAS has become a way of life with a great many of us, and nothing can or will change that fact. It was the brain child of the WB but it now belongs to us, and it can never be taken away. It's kinda like what Monty Walsh said... "As long as there is one man on one horse pushing one cow......", same holds true for Cowboy Action Shooters.

 

Snakebite

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I'm with Dan, I like tha idea. Really I'm very happy about it!

In 12 years of shooting CAS I've only been able to go to the nationals twice mainly because of tha distance involved. However I've been to the Mason/Dixon 7 or 8 of them an had it been a national my happy azz would probably have been there every year!

 

 

 

 

RRR

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You sure you are not thinking of EOT? I don't consider 1100 feet to be high elevation, but some may I guess. And dust has not been my experience for the last three Winter Ranges, YMMV. I have been in Phoenix in hot dusty conditions....in the summer.

The Wild Bunch will do whatever it wants, so will I.

 

When you live in Florida, 1,100 is high. And the last time I went, I had a dust devil rip the hat off my head while I was in the middle of a stage. If I remember correctly I was freezing in the morning and burning up by the time I left the range - big fun it was.

 

No one can control the weather, but when you are from "out there" you are accustomed to it. That's all I am saying.

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I wonder if Winter Range is going to go along with this? You can only push folks so far, you know. SASS should reconsider this decision, of splitting the National championship match. I haven't been to Winter Range but would like to one day. Cowboy Action Shooting is a unique shooting sport, where young and old can shoot and have fun. We have been heading toward Cowboy IDPA for awhile now. We need to get back to the fun and socializing of the sport or it will die like all the other shooting sports.

 

Why not use the State, Regionals, U.S. Open and National to lead to the World. I mean, we have a large east shoot called The U.S. Open. Why do we need another? What will this accomplish? It seems the pie is getting cut again. There is only so much money in CAS you keep splitting it up and no one will survive.

 

I guess someone drank the kool-aid again.

 

Blue Wolf

 

 

Have you looked at a map of the U.S. lately? Sparta is smack dab in the middle of the country! NOT IN THE EAST!

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Why is SASS allowing a joint National and Regional event when Regionals are not allowed to run combined Regional and State events?

Where is the OFFICIAL announcement from SASS about this new event?

 

It really sux when you have to hear about these major decisions piece-meal in this manor!

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Why is SASS allowing a joint National and Regional event when Regionals are not allowed to run combined Regional and State events?

Where is the OFFICIAL announcement from SASS about this new event?

 

It really sux when you have to hear about these major decisions piece-meal in this manor!

 

 

Capt. It looks like the regionals for these 2 areas will go away and be replaced with "National"

Not a combined event.

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I mean, we have a large east shoot called The U.S. Open. Why do we need another? What will this accomplish?

 

I guess someone drank the kool-aid again.

 

Blue Wolf

 

I was just gonna leave this alone but after this I can't. This year my wife and I decided to go to a really big shoot this year together. (I've been to several out of my area regionals ((by car pooling with other shooters)) but this was the first big match my wife has shot outside of the state championship) We can't afford in time and in money to go all the way to W/R or EOT but then I heard about the US Open at the state championship. I chose the Open over the Mason Dixon this year because I have already been to M/D and wanted to try something new. I unfortunately believed all the hype put up about this match like it's "the next" EOT, 1000 shooters, etc. Well I spent a TON of money and vacation time and I'll tell you, I was extremely disappointed. The facility was awesome but the hotels were overpriced and not all that great, the match had only +/- 270 shooters and almost no vendors. I just don't see a national event there.

 

Also Sparta IS NOT in "the east".

 

I really like the idea of having 2 nationals. especially at Thurmont. It's not right that the east shooters have to travel all the way across the country for both the national and world championships every year. What they should do is rotate it, but I know that will never happen so the next best thing is giving the east coast a national match of their own. It still sucks that if the winner wants to compete for the "top spot" at the world championship they have to bear the cost of traveling across country to do it, where the west coast shooter doesn't, but it's better than not being able to attend a national event ever! Most of those on here that are bit%^ing about this new idea are the lucky ones who have these 2 shoots close to them. For my wife and I to shoot one of these 2 matches it's at least triple the cost and time that it is to shoot one like the Mason Dixon.

 

So, I have an idea. Lets move both the national and world championship over to the far east for the next 20 years and see how many of the west coast shooters would like to see a rotating national/world match or at the least a national of their own to attend.

 

JEL

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Have you looked at a map of the U.S. lately? Sparta is smack dab in the middle of the country! NOT IN THE EAST!

 

 

Actually, the Geographical Center of the United States (contiguous 48) is located about two miles northwest of Lebanon, Kansas. ;):P

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So, I have an idea. Lets move both the national and world championship over to the far east for the next 20 years and see how many of the west coast shooters would like to see a rotating national/world match or at the least a national of their own to attend.

 

JEL

 

 

+1

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Gang, like it or not, the decision has been made. The SASS Eastern National, The Mason Dixon Stampede, will be held at Thurmont, Maryland. The SASS Western National, Winter Range, will be held at Phoenix, Arizona.

 

Winter Range is shot in March, The Mason Dixon Stampede is shot in October. If a shooter chooses to attend one, or both matches, then so be it. There will be nobody manning the gates at the ranges, demanding to see the shooter's driver's license, and turning them away if they're not from the proper area of the country. Very likely, the attendance at Winter Range will not change, and the attendance at The Mason Dixon Stampede will increase... what's not to like about that?

 

The people that enjoy going to Winter Range will still continue to go to the match, and I'm sure they'll continue to sell out the match as well.

 

As for The Mason Dixon Stampede, the match will grow in size, as it will be growing from a regional match to a national match. The people that enjoy going to the match will still enjoy going to the match, and we'll all welcome all the new shooters who will be attending the match.

 

Sgt., I agree 100% in what you say. I have friends that live in Ellicott City, MD, so I could kill two birds with one stone. Easy to fly into Baltimore. I think what has most people upset, myself included, is the way the WB went about this. You don't crap on your membership and then expect them to support you. A lot of people from the local level all the way up to WR have put in a lot of time, sweat, and personal money to insure the matches go on, only to be slapped in the face by the WB. I don't understand this myself.

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Also Sparta IS NOT in "the east".

So, I have an idea. Lets move both the national and world championship over to the far east for the next 20 years and see how many of the west coast shooters would like to see a rotating national/world match or at the least a national of their own to attend.

JEL

It's all relative, isn't it? Looks east from here? Heck, Texas is back east somewhere.

 

Move it to the far east? Japan? China?

 

No matter how you look at it, this is a dilution of THE national championship into two cups. Watered down.

And let me make this CLEAR to you. For me it is not that the WB changed things around, it's the MANNER it was done. Winter Range people find out about this on the Wire? Talk about disrespecting someone!

And I forgot to add that the way it is now NOBODY is competing in a National shoot at all... they are a super-regional at best.

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Actually, the Geographical Center of the United States (contiguous 48) is located about two miles northwest of Lebanon, Kansas. ;):P

Of the CONTIGUOUS USA.... is KS.... HOWSOMEVER... the geographical center of the continental US is Belle Fourche SD.

 

And yes, it's about time someone had shoot near Sturgis SD. Let's have a National, World, Geopolitical, Cosmic Championship where cowboys actually live. :FlagAm:

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some things to think about;

 

the regionals were created to give the east coast shooters a chance at a championship.

 

splitting the national into regions by definition, creates more regionals.

 

the SASS calender ends with EOT, if you want to shoot the Nationals this year, it's WR.

 

I'm sure EZ Shot has spent the better part of the year working on the budget for the next WR. ordering tables and chairs, tent size, awards, and the like. for those of you saying 600 instead of 750 is good, you try losing $30K+ out of your budget and see how it goes.

 

move it to the east to see how we like it??? i guess when hundreds thousands of westerners start spending the fall over there and the lexicon is created to represent them, like snowbirds for example, that would start to make sense.

 

Winter Range is exactly that. are ya all hat and no cattle? the local population goes through the roof in AZ in winter. people come from the east, canada, and europe already.

 

the shoot grew because of hard work and became the national when SASS didnt have one.

 

I personally, dont care if theres an EOT in every state on the atlantic seaboard y'all go and have fun. your regionals arent selling out, if you think changing the name will double attendance, go for it, good luck, do what you need to do.

 

i would've thought a non disclosure clause till March 1st would have been good business.

 

i wonder if WR may find SASS in breach by representing more than one rnational before their contract expires.

 

cc

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I think this was a really NASTY way to go about this change !!!!

 

Slam WR with a broad-side with-out warning ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, then let them try and find-out the details on the Wire !!!

 

That is certainly not the COWBOY WAY !!!

 

And two Nationals is Horse-Hockey ..... An "Eastern US championship" with some much needed suport from SASS is a better way to grow the sport ,,,,,,,,,,,,, And then who knows maybe ,,,, down the road another Western Club might want to Host a "Western US Championship"....

 

From all acounts heard up here WR has earned the right to host the "Nationals" and runs the best of the best shoots in the USA....

 

I believe the WB could learn from WR some things to improve their handling of ET ,,,,, Instead of kicking them in the teeth..

 

I am beginning to have a strong desire to go shoot at WR ...........

 

Jabez Cowboy

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It's all relative, isn't it? Looks east from here? Heck, Texas is back east somewhere.

 

Move it to the far east? Japan? China?

 

Go ahead and move it to Heck, Texas :P it's still alot closer for me than Arizona and New Mexico

 

 

No matter how you look at it, this is a dilution of THE national championship into two cups. Watered down.

 

And I forgot to add that the way it is now NOBODY is competing in a National shoot at all... they are a super-regional at best.

 

That's a bunch of B.S! Moto and Supercross as well as GNCC racing have been doing east and west "Nationals" for years and it works great. Makes the Championship all the more fun.

 

And let me make this CLEAR to you. For me it is not that the WB changed things around, it's the MANNER it was done. Winter Range people find out about this on the Wire? Talk about disrespecting someone!

 

No need to make it clear to me, I know the WB does what it wants to do so there is no sence in fretting over it. W/R will still have their match, it will still be an awesome shoot (so I've heard), and they will still sell out. The only thing that has changed is MORE Members get a chance at a National Title, be it east or west it's still a chance for some who are unable to attend W/R due to it's grossly unfair location to the east coast shooters (Who by the way pay the same fees that you do)!!

 

JEL

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I was just gonna leave this alone but after this I can't. This year my wife and I decided to go to a really big shoot this year together. (I've been to several out of my area regionals ((by car pooling with other shooters)) but this was the first big match my wife has shot outside of the state championship) We can't afford in time and in money to go all the way to W/R or EOT but then I heard about the US Open at the state championship. I chose the Open over the Mason Dixon this year because I have already been to M/D and wanted to try something new. I unfortunately believed all the hype put up about this match like it's "the next" EOT, 1000 shooters, etc. Well I spent a TON of money and vacation time and I'll tell you, I was extremely disappointed. The facility was awesome but the hotels were overpriced and not all that great, the match had only +/- 270 shooters and almost no vendors. I just don't see a national event there.

 

Also Sparta IS NOT in "the east".

 

I really like the idea of having 2 nationals. especially at Thurmont. It's not right that the east shooters have to travel all the way across the country for both the national and world championships every year. What they should do is rotate it, but I know that will never happen so the next best thing is giving the east coast a national match of their own. It still sucks that if the winner wants to compete for the "top spot" at the world championship they have to bear the cost of traveling across country to do it, where the west coast shooter doesn't, but it's better than not being able to attend a national event ever! Most of those on here that are bit%^ing about this new idea are the lucky ones who have these 2 shoots close to them. For my wife and I to shoot one of these 2 matches it's at least triple the cost and time that it is to shoot one like the Mason Dixon.

 

So, I have an idea. Lets move both the national and world championship over to the far east for the next 20 years and see how many of the west coast shooters would like to see a rotating national/world match or at the least a national of their own to attend.

 

JEL

 

.

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No matter what details they may choose to add, no matter how they choose to dress it up and make it all pretty....they have replaced the National Championship match with two super-regional matches. And the manner in which it was done reminds me of the stink from a pig sty. JMO, which is worth only the offal that caused said stink, but said anyway.

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Since so many people are so worried about the cost and distance to travel to a national championship, I'd like to see Michigan host the Great Lakes National Championship. If you have 2 national championships you might as well have 3 or 4 or 5. That sounds Great!

 

 

 

Sounds great but no stages with split pistols and at least half must be gunfighter friendly.

Plus I want it held with in 25 miles of my house, I don't have the money to travel, I am on SS.

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Since so many people are so worried about the cost and distance to travel to a national championship, I'd like to see Michigan host the Great Lakes National Championship. If you have 2 national championships you might as well have 3 or 4 or 5. That sounds Great!

 

 

Like I said in my last post, lets move both the national and world championships to the eastern side of the US for the next 10 to 20 years and see how long it takes for the western shooters to start bitching about travel expenses!!!

 

Then you naysayers will be happy that there is only 1 National and 1 World Champ match and easterners will be happy not having to miss out on the biggest 2 matches every year because of the travel cost.

 

JEL

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Change is inevitable. We need to get used to it and deal with it.

 

IMHO, SASS needs to make Eastern shooting a major priority. I had the sad misfortune to undergo the pain of operating out of an office in Chicago. I could count the number of shooters in the city on the fingers of one hand. :-( Because, I hated the city and the lack of anything even remotely resembling a mountain :-( I lived at the end of the C & NW RR track (Williams Bay, Wisconsin) on Geneva Lake. My day began with my stam yacht across the lake to the RR pier where there was free parking for the members of the private car. Then I relaxed and read the WSJ for 2 hours to the Loop. That was the only thing that kept me sane.

 

Anyway, that is my long winded way to say that SASS needs todo its best to encourage CAS East of the Mississippi. Asking us to undertake the hassle of flying (Amtrak refuses to allow guns on its trains) or drive our RVs at 7 to, possibly, 15 mpg all of the way to Arizona is insane.

 

I live in Idaho on the border with British Columbia. Traveling to the superb Nationals in Phoenix is incredibly expensive and so is going to Albuquerque. Equally spendy is driving to the Canadian championship in Victoria/Courtenay, BC. I simply cannot believe that any middle class family East of the Mississippi could justify the expense of competing this far out West. We really need to rethink SASS if we want it to be relevant. Otherwise, it will simply become a regional event for the wealthy.

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In terms of SASS membership, where is the centroid of US membership located today? A few years ago one WB member told me it was somewhere along the Colorado Utah border. If this is unchanged, all this East coast/West coast dividing line planning will get interesting especially when some folks in Co, NM, WY and MT for example end up in the East National.

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Maybe we are caught up on the National title (which should stay with Winter Range) and change to the idea of East Division and West Division. Just an idea.

 

Blue Wolf

 

 

Bingo.

Think that is a lot of it. People worried about the title of the macth.

 

In the long run. I think this gives MORE shooters a chance to take part in it.

And THAT is what it is all about.

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