Calico Mary Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Buick, is this you? Don't make me come out there...I'll have to program the GPS or NavSystem... fire up the 4G and text while driving... using voice to text of course. Shame on me for texting while talking! Dang kids made me do it... or maybe it was my mother. That woman has butterfly texting fingers from 80 years of classical piano. No excuse! Bad smartphone manners will get you thrown off the range. HEY! Maybe we could have a penalty like we do on the golf course. If the phone rings it's a stroke. If you answer it then it's two. Or one "P" for bad phone. At least my new one is period correct....it plays Magnificent 7 theme. Buick don't know how to type, you should know better than that! And he ain't allowed to take his Kindle with him to shoots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 The one thing I don't like in the new elec scoreing. It is hard for me as a TO. To see that they are putting it in right and on the right person. With the paper. I would walk over to the score keeper and show them the timer and you could SEE them write it down properly. With the new thing. I just HOPE they are doing it right. Not sure what i am going to do as a PM at CAC. When i don't know how to work the dang thing myself. And not sure anyone on the posse does eiter. A big regional is not the place to be trying to figure it out. Thing is, big guy, you shouldn't have to. It don't get no simpler than a paper scoresheet and a pencil. Been workin' well for us for decades now hasn't it? Just look at these kid cashiers who can't even make change if the register/computer doesn't tell them how much to give. The system crashes or whatever and we all just shot and there is no record. BK, don't ax me to tex ya no message because as a Luddite I doan know how. Har! And doan want to know. Not gonna get dragged kickin' and screamin' into the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I do support using a good device for keeping score. I'm certainly not sure that the current crop of smart phones is a very good solution, though. With all the extra functionality they have beyond what is needed for scoring, cell phones or small tablets can certainly introduce strong temptations for a scoring person, or just someone in the posse, to try "just a little" phoning, messaging, web surfing, posting scores real time to outsiders, or making it possible for hackers to tap in to possibly examine, alter, copy the scoring that isunderway, or to implant a virus. A better scoring device would be as dedicated as a current timer is. No extra functions, rugged enough to survive regular drops on the ground without damage, coffee spills, direct rain and sleet and snow and hot and cold weather conditions, and no need for complicated interfaces. No real temptation for others to want to walk off with a great little cell phone. Big enough that a shooter can look at the results he's signing off for, without having to run get his cheater glasses. Big enough that others can see the scores that friends on the posse have shot, without having to bother the scorer ("Hey, bring up Mary's score, will you?" "Hey, who's got the fastest time so far?"). Directly changeable batteries that don't need a charger hooked up for an hour to get the device going again when "low batt" starts calling your attention. That sounds a lot more like a big, rugged tablet with the ability to disable most of it's functions, instead of some of the suggestions I've seen so far for an electronic scoring device. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well shucks....let's just have a shot timer/tablet. Shooter comes up to the line and the RO selects his name and then "Standby"...beep. After the shooting is done record any misses/Ps/MSV/SDQ/MDQ. Next shooter..... Now wouldn't that be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Well shucks....let's just have a shot timer/Ipad Mini. Shooter comes up to the line and the RO selects his name and then "Standby"...beep. After the shooting is done record any misses/Ps/MSV/SDQ/MDQ. Next shooter..... Now wouldn't that be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Pain Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 BTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidio Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Okay TechHeads, I downloaded the A.C.E.S app to my Droid. When I get time, I'll play around with it and see if it is something I want to mess with. I still have a bunch of folks from the Netherlands at the house. They leave tomorrow -- the old fish and family drill. Where can it be downloaded from? Ain't got any plans on using it, but curiousity to see what all the hub-bub is about is abit over-whelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Lots of Chicken LIttles here. Please try or observe this scoring system before letting the panic take over. We used A.C.E.S. at our last monthly along side the regular score sheet. It took VERY little extra time. The overall scores were finished before the last shooter had unloaded his guns. This technology is no more invasive to the posse atmosphere than a clipboard and pencil. There are no flashing lights or annoying sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitt Viper Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Brother King, Regarding backups....do some of the devices used for the ACES program allow the use of a memory card? Anything Apple doesn't but I don't know about the Androids or other platforms. If the input device had a memory card the ACES program could be written so that the data is written to the devices internal memory as well as the memory card. That way if the device crashes you can pull the memory card out of it and put it in another device of the same kind and recover the data. Just a thought. Couyon Acadien' If the device has an SD card it can write scores to it. It also emails backups, which I prefer, since they are away from a device entirely. On the iPhone the only option is e-mail or sync (copy scores from device to device) for backup. On accuracy... With the process of enter it into ACES, write it down, have shooter review both, then errors drop to near zero. And this process takes no extra time. Regards, Pitt Viper Disclosure: I make A.C.E.S. (-: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitt Viper Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Lots of Chicken LIttles here. Please try or observe this scoring system before letting the panic take over. We used A.C.E.S. at our last monthly along side the regular score sheet. It took VERY little extra time. The overall scores were finished before the last shooter had unloaded his guns. This technology is no more invasive to the posse atmosphere than a clipboard and pencil. There are no flashing lights or annoying sounds. Why not use a stopwatch not PACT timer to time runs... (-: Electronic scoring, or more precisely electronic score entry, mainly benefits that unsung hero who has been going home, or not socializing, or not shooting, so as to enter in hundreds of scores. I was that guy. And that's why ACES exists now. I appreciate the support, and I understand concerns about rampant technology - or a solution looking for a problem. In this case, the solution was born because my wife refused to enter scores when I "volunteered". Thus, I did it, and pretty soon afterwards, I was looking for another way... Regards, Pitt Viper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I do support using a good device for keeping score. I'm certainly not sure that the current crop of smart phones is a very good solution, though. With all the extra functionality they have beyond what is needed for scoring, cell phones or small tablets can certainly introduce strong temptations for a scoring person, or just someone in the posse, to try "just a little" phoning, messaging, web surfing, posting scores real time to outsiders, or making it possible for hackers to tap in to possibly examine, alter, copy the scoring that isunderway, or to implant a virus. A better scoring device would be as dedicated as a current timer is. No extra functions, rugged enough to survive regular drops on the ground without damage, coffee spills, direct rain and sleet and snow and hot and cold weather conditions, and no need for complicated interfaces. No real temptation for others to want to walk off with a great little cell phone. Big enough that a shooter can look at the results he's signing off for, without having to run get his cheater glasses. Big enough that others can see the scores that friends on the posse have shot, without having to bother the scorer ("Hey, bring up Mary's score, will you?" "Hey, who's got the fastest time so far?"). Directly changeable batteries that don't need a charger hooked up for an hour to get the device going again when "low batt" starts calling your attention. That sounds a lot more like a big, rugged tablet with the ability to disable most of it's functions, instead of some of the suggestions I've seen so far for an electronic scoring device. Good luck, GJ GJ, as one who has employees in the field regularly making measuements with modern, electronic equipment I want to add to your list. Some readouts disappear in bright sunlight. Displays must be readable in all lighting comditions. The unit must be weatherproof as it will eventually experience wet confitions. Milspec devices are sometimes clunky and very expensive but they do work in such conditions. Rechargable devices are undesireable as there is rarely a wall socket nearby when the low battery alarm comes on. Pit Viper: I appaud your efforts in implementing an alternative to our present paper-based scoring systems. Test and evaluation at real matches helps identify needed improvements. Not all the lessons learned will be pleasant but eventually we may have a product ready for use at a major match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 GJ.... see this is what happens when you hate the music, don't understand the hair, disapprove of the tattoos, and think the lifestyles are signs of the end of times.... YOU GOT OLD! You can't fly drones in Afghanistan (or over Detroit) if you can't run a video game. We game with things before we turn them into tools....etc. And, FYI... I swam a 3k before breakfast....watch out Michael Phelps. (Just kidding...my fly now looks like ORCA drowning instead of Flipper chuckling.) Convicts all over the world are glad almost everyone now has a tattoo!! BK, 3k before breakfast? It's too cold to swim across the lake this time of year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yes, I would quit. I go shooting to talk to people and have fun with people,not to watch people play with their little toys to the exclusion of those around them. If that's what other shooters want to do instead of interacting with other people, fine, that's their choice. It's my choice not to bother wasting my time going somewhere just to be ignored because the toys are far more interesting than I am. I got other things I can spend that money on. And as for scorekeepers not being able to shoot, I did the scores for a club for a year and never had that problem. Hi Mary I don't believe I've ever met you but I do know Brother King well. It seems you have a good relationship with him and I trust you are someone that I would enjoy shooting with based on your good natured kidding between the two of you. As to your comments above, I, too, enjoy cowboy shooting as an escape from the everyday barrage of electronic devices and the interruption of personal interaction that they create. My job requires me to use multiple electronic communication devices every day. So the short relief periods are welcome. My wife and I travel around and shoot at a lot of different clubs and I will have to say that, for the most part, when we are at a shoot, during the match itself, it is rare to see a cell phone or any other electronic device used. Sometimes pre-match or post-match the phone usage is evident, but not at all what I see daily out in the general public. But I have used and we will continue to use the new A.C.E.S. Scoring system. I truly believe it is no more distracting than a bright plastic clipboard and a ball point pen. It is not something that causes people to "play with their little toys to the exclusion of those around them." It takes no longer to enter the shooters score in my small hand held device than it does to write it on the score sheet. And then I ignore the device and talk to those around me just like I do if I were writing the score on a sheet. And this is what I have observed of other folks as they use the new system as well. So please try and be a little more open-minded about this one little change in the way we play this game. As for scoring, you may not have been hindered at your local matches with your ability to shoot. That is not the case at many matches/clubs, especially at bigger annual shoots. This really is a blessing in many cases, allowing huge improvements in the ability of some people to shoot and/or devote their time to other duties at the matches. So please give it a chance. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you. I'm just offering my view of what I've observed and I don't think it as bad as you might suspect it to be. I do agree with you, though, if we start to see a trend of allowing more distracting use of phones, etc., I'll be right there with you. In the few instances where phones have rang or someone made a call, the sideways glances from other shooters is usually enough to let that person know that it isn't really appreciated. But for now, I don't see much of it. Hope to meet you on the trail one day. P.S. Tell that no good scallywag Brother King that Titus said howdy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I admit there are a lot of things I'm behind the curve on, personal electronics and "apps" is one of them. Whats to keep someone with the "app" on their phone from changing their score? Or someone angry about a call (we've all seen these)from using their phone to interfere with the scoring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Mary I don't believe I've ever met you but I do know Brother King well. It seems you have a good relationship with him and I trust you are someone that I would enjoy shooting with based on your good natured kidding between the two of you. As to your comments above, I, too, enjoy cowboy shooting as an escape from the everyday barrage of electronic devices and the interruption of personal interaction that they create. My job requires me to use multiple electronic communication devices every day. So the short relief periods are welcome. My wife and I travel around and shoot at a lot of different clubs and I will have to say that, for the most part, when we are at a shoot, during the match itself, it is rare to see a cell phone or any other electronic device used. Sometimes pre-match or post-match the phone usage is evident, but not at all what I see daily out in the general public. But I have used and we will continue to use the new A.C.E.S. Scoring system. I truly believe it is no more distracting than a bright plastic clipboard and a ball point pen. It is not something that causes people to "play with their little toys to the exclusion of those around them." It takes no longer to enter the shooters score in my small hand held device than it does to write it on the score sheet. And then I ignore the device and talk to those around me just like I do if I were writing the score on a sheet. And this is what I have observed of other folks as they use the new system as well. So please try and be a little more open-minded about this one little change in the way we play this game. As for scoring, you may not have been hindered at your local matches with your ability to shoot. That is not the case at many matches/clubs, especially at bigger annual shoots. This really is a blessing in many cases, allowing huge improvements in the ability of some people to shoot and/or devote their time to other duties at the matches. So please give it a chance. Please don't take this as a personal attack on you. I'm just offering my view of what I've observed and I don't think it as bad as you might suspect it to be. I do agree with you, though, if we start to see a trend of allowing more distracting use of phones, etc., I'll be right there with you. In the few instances where phones have rang or someone made a call, the sideways glances from other shooters is usually enough to let that person know that it isn't really appreciated. But for now, I don't see much of it. Hope to meet you on the trail one day. P.S. Tell that no good scallywag Brother King that Titus said howdy! Titus, Ya, BK is a friend, but don't tell him I said that, it will go to his head. And I know I probably shoulda kept my mouth shut, but hey, Grizz asked, and since he's a good friend I wanted to give him an honest opinion. I do go to shoots for one reason and one reason only, interaction with good people. I certainly don't go to shoot, anyone who has ever seen me do it knows that part is a waste of my time. And this isn't a personal attack on you, or BK, or Filly, or anyone, but unfortunately not only will allowing electronic devices on posses be as bad as I think, it will probably be even worse. It will not stop with just using said devices for a few seconds at a time for scoring. It just won't, I've seen how addicted people get to those things, and how phones and devices are now so much more important than people. It will get to the point where the people who are there to socialize without needing one of those things to do it will just be shoved aside and ignored. I see it coming, and no, I don't like it. I may not be able to stop it, but I don't have to like it. But hey, I'm weird like that, I'm crazy enough to still like talking to people (even Brother King!)....and I'm gonna miss it And no, I never did a big match, but did scoring for a year for monthly matches, and I really don't get why people think its so horrible. It never once took 1 second away from my shooting or socializing, I enjoyed doing it, I miss doing it, and under the right circumstances would love to do it again. But I wouldn't do it if it involved using any devices in front of other people. That's just not polite, period. If I do see King I'll pass on the message, and a big hug, but I think my shooting season is just about done for this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Where can it be downloaded from? Ain't got any plans on using it, but curiousity to see what all the hub-bub is about is abit over-whelming. Right here, Presidio. I haven't had time to even open the app yet, but for 25 bucks, hey, why not? I'm the guy stuck in the score shack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Wind-Walker #36748 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Bad Hand No one can "push" a score to a device..........the master only "pulls" scores from designated devices........ And we always recommend that "paper" is run alongside of device...... And the supposed to be procedure that is now in place is............. 1. Timer Operator calls out time then shows it to the scorer...... 2. Scorer verify's time and TO verify's time was recorded right on paper....... 3. "if" shooter is signing = he verify's paper Only change is........... 2. Scorer verify's time (( records it on device first - then paper)) and TO verify's time was recorded right on paper (( and device))........ 3. "if" shooter is signing = he verify's paper (( and device)) and it is a matter of seconds entering score on device and verifying by all parties.... Hope this helps.......................believe me - we have though this out and tested it at shoots......made changes and tested it again........... Next stop for A.C.E.S. === Com In At Cha = ask Candy (( Honey B Gracefull )) and T-Bone what they think of it........they were our Beta test sight (( 100 shooters )) and they did an awesome job.......and we even used it with a bunch of "Seniors" = and some of them never even held a "electronic device".......and learning curve was fast - 5 or 10 min = and results were fast................shoot = Honey said they did not know what to do because the results were printed out 10 min after shooting and they usually had to spend 2 to 3 hours doing it before........ So guess who had more time to socialize....... So my advice..........talk to some one who has used it..........otherwise all the conjecture, concerns, ideas, perceived issues, and negative attitude...are based on what.......something you have not seen or used........... You just might be pleasantly surprised.......... Regards.............Wolf PS: Okie = if ya need any help = let us know.....will try to get you out of that score shack sooner........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 For clarification, the time saving capability of a technology based score keeping system is for the match official who currently spend hours in the score shack entering scores so that everything is done in time for the awards. While the rest of us are enjoying lunch, visiting with freinds, shopping the vendors, watching the top gun shootoff, these folks are slaving away. I appreciate their dedication and hard work, and anything we can do to help them out is a good thing in my book. I saw a picture on facebook the other day, it was a string of college kids walking down the sidewalk, every one of them with a cell phone out in front of their faces. The caption read "The Zombies are allready here" or something to that effect. How true that is. It didn't start with cell phones, it started with walkmans, then discmans, iPods, and all manner of music players. I enjoy music but feel that having speakers pluged into my head takes away my awareness of the world around me. So I understand where Calico is coming from. As most of you all know, I'm pretty much addicted to the wire and Saloon. That might be a shock to some of you, but look at the post count, I'm on here a fair bit. I was slow to embrace the whole cell phone thing, and even slower to move to a smart phone, but a month or so ago I got one, or actually my family got me one. It is in my cart for every match. Am I tempted to take it out and check facebook or the wire during the match? HECK NO! For me, a smart phone or tablet to be used to record the scores on a posse would be no more intrusive on my enjoyment than the timer, or someone's camera, the smart phone in my cart, or my video camera. Now if Mary's visions of the scorekeeper or others playing games on the thing came to pass, yeah, that might irk me a bit, but certainly wouldn't keep me away from the game I love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We've been using the Aces software for the past three months. Used it for a 2 day shoot and multiple posse shoots. It works fine and isn't a distraction. As an TO, I can watch them input the time if I need to feel a warm fuzzy, just like when we used a clipboard. Or I can have them pull up any time to check the scoring. It's easy to use by anyone. And one of the interesting things about it, you get instant feedback on your shooting compared to the posse as the data is entered. What to know how you did on the stage compared to everyone else? It's already got the standings as the stage is shoot. At the end of the match, it's a snap to pass out clean match awards, etc, since the results are done before the last shooter clears the unloading table. How about posting results to the web site? You can email the pdf file to your web master at the end of the match and the results are up as fast as they can post them. Bottom line - it works, it's easy, and it's fast. Clipboards don't come out for scoring anymore with the Shortgrass Rangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Mary You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I personally don't think it's headed that direction, but that's just my opinion. To each his own. But like I said before, if I see it turn the other way, I'm in your court then. I, too, go for the camaraderie, as well as the shooting. If everyone was back at their gun cart texting/talking/surfing/etc., who's gonna be shaggin brass, spotting, etc. as well as socializing. That ain't what I go for. Haven't seen that to be the case ever at a shoot yet. Hope it don't happen. When it does, I may change my opinion. Til then...HAPPY SHOOTING! Titus P.S. Ain't that Grizz a great guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 "To err is human; to really foul things up requires a computer" often attributed to Paul R Ehrlich Having a paper set of the recorded scores is important for the integrity of the score. Yes, I have been a score keeper and the one that reduces the data and produces the final scores. I think that since this is supposed to be the closest thing to the old west short of a time machine that we could respect that concept a bit more and NOT use technology items to the Nth degree. The timer is bad enough except for some of us where a watch might be more useful. Or perhaps a sundial.... Speaking only for my self of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 "To err is human; to really foul things up requires a computer" often attributed to Paul R Ehrlich Having a paper set of the recorded scores is important for the integrity of the score. Yes, I have been a score keeper and the one that reduces the data and produces the final scores. I think that since this is supposed to be the closest thing to the old west short of a time machine that we could respect that concept a bit more and NOT use technology items to the Nth degree. The timer is bad enough except for some of us where a watch might be more useful. Or perhaps a sundial.... Speaking only for my self of course. You forgot calendar....or is that just for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You forgot calendar....or is that just for me? There are times I feel that that might work for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I think that since this is supposed to be the closest thing to the old west short of a time machine that we could respect that concept a bit more and NOT use technology items to the Nth degree. The timer is bad enough except for some of us where a watch might be more useful. Or perhaps a sundial.... Speaking only for my self of course. Did you forget the 'winkie'? Are we supposed to add up scores by hand, do the computations without a calculator? Surely, you're not being serious. It would help with discussion so much if people could remember that SASS is not a re-enactment troupe or even period correct. It's a sport. Sports have timers, keep score and all of those tasks require either hours of man labor or the technology to make it as smooth and simple as possible. You drive to the range and carry your guns in a gun cart, right? Then go to lunch at a restaurant? Load bullets on a reloader? (ever get a squib, flat tire, lose your ear plugs in the cart, pay for lunch with a credit card?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Did you forget the 'winkie'? Are we supposed to add up scores by hand, do the computations without a calculator? Surely, you're not being serious. It would help with discussion so much if people could remember that SASS is not a re-enactment troupe or even period correct. It's a sport. Sports have timers, keep score and all of those tasks require either hours of man labor or the technology to make it as smooth and simple as possible. You drive to the range and carry your guns in a gun cart, right? Then go to lunch at a restaurant? Load bullets on a reloader? (ever get a squib, flat tire, lose your ear plugs in the cart, pay for lunch with a credit card?) What goes on beyond the scene can be done by computers. On that I don't care. SASS presents this "form of entertainment" as the "closest thing to the old west short of a time machine". Therefore it has some elements that resemble "reenactment". But falls well and truely short. What with Rugers, Henry Big Boys and sometimes slack costuming. Yes Yes there are reasons, some practical, some safety, some cost..... Thus one can easily draw the conclusion that period correctness does not include high tech stuff on the SCENE. How we get to the stage (note the terms stage and it's theatrical usage) is not relevent what goes on on the stage is. Once again period appearance is important... high tech gadgets are not part of the period. Can't get away from the timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 What goes on beyond the scene can be done by computers. On that I don't care. SASS presents this "form of entertainment" as the "closest thing to the old west short of a time machine". Therefore it has some elements that resemble "reenactment". But falls well and truely short. What with Rugers, Henry Big Boys and sometimes slack costuming. Yes Yes there are reasons, some practical, some safety, some cost..... Thus one can easily draw the conclusion that period correctness does not include high tech stuff on the SCENE. How we get to the stage (note the terms stage and it's theatrical usage) is not relevent what goes on on the stage is. Once again period appearance is important... high tech gadgets are not part of the period. Can't get away from the timer. I guess we all have our idea of what a cowboy match should look like. Hard to get away from the blue porta-johns, golf carts, food vendors, P.A. systems (like EOT), Class A RV's parked in plain view, and of course our cars and trucks. Somehow, I don't think an Ipad is going to "kill" the mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Hacker, I think this application is a great idea, it frees one or two folks from hours of tedious work to enjoy the match events with friends. All that will need to be done after the match is verify and print results, which isn't that time consuming. Calico Mary, Doing scores at a six-stage monthly match for 30 or so people isn't bad compared to entering 200+ scores for 12 stages. Regards, Allie "who has entered and verified scores for both" Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hacker, just curious if you have the same aversion to digital cameras and video cameras. How about plastic water and gateraid bottles? New fangled coffee thermoses, etc. And what about the goggle safety glasses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 One problem I see right off is not having the ability to print labels for the results. The SASS Premier Program allows printing labels, which we stick on the name tag on the back of the ribbons we hand out. Makes the awards ceremony go easy. Using the A.C.E.S. app, we'd have to hand write all of the names onto the ribbon card. This takes a lot of additional time. So we'd save time on one end, but lose time on the other end. Please correct me if I am wrong. Like I said, I haven't had time to explore this program fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hacker, just curious if you have the same aversion to digital cameras and video cameras. How about plastic water and gateraid bottles? New fangled coffee thermoses, etc. And what about the goggle safety glasses? Cameras and such are for catching the moment to enjoy and reminisce about the fun matches. Water is required and gets a pass for safety reasons. However it would be cool if someone would make a water cooler that looks like a barrel. I don't drink coffee. Safety glasses are required for safety reasons.... enough said. My eyes are worth a great deal... to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I guess we all have our idea of what a cowboy match should look like. Hard to get away from the blue porta-johns, golf carts, food vendors, P.A. systems (like EOT), Class A RV's parked in plain view, and of course our cars and trucks. Somehow, I don't think an Ipad is going to "kill" the mood. Some things are required others have imagined needs. Not that entering numbers straight away is fun. And the old west would not have had stages. Whether a shooting contest such as the one in the early parts of "Winchester 1873" happened, I wouldn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Some things are required others have imagined needs. Not that entering numbers straight away is fun. And the old west would not have had stages. Whether a shooting contest such as the one in the early parts of "Winchester 1873" happened, I wouldn't know. Now that I've had time to think about it... you're right. The dang score keepers should calculate by hand by candlelight using pencils sharpened with a bowie knife. I want to see some green eye shades and garters, too. And no more of those computer generated welcome letters and metered stamps. If the pony express rider can't drop off my hand written entry confirmation then by cracky I'll... I'll... I'll... This message will self destruct in 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Now that I've had time to think about it... you're right. The dang score keepers should calculate by hand by candlelight using pencils sharpened with a bowie knife. I want to see some green eye shades and garters, too. And no more of those computer generated welcome letters and metered stamps. If the pony express rider can't drop off my hand written entry confirmation then by cracky I'll... I'll... I'll... This message will self destruct in 30 seconds. You don't have to go that far....... But wood pencils should be sharpened by knife (bowie is a possibility). Don't have to use candlelight..... A camp fire would suffice. A pony express rider would be more period correct than the evil metered stamps. Having fun yet BK :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Hacker, I think this application is a great idea, it frees one or two folks from hours of tedious work to enjoy the match events with friends. All that will need to be done after the match is verify and print results, which isn't that time consuming. Calico Mary, Doing scores at a six-stage monthly match for 30 or so people isn't bad compared to entering 200+ scores for 12 stages. Regards, Allie "who has entered and verified scores for both" Mo I'll admit, I've only done monthly matches, but I was referring to monthly matches anyway. I can see the use for a faster method for big matches, but only if all use of cell phones on the stages was limited to nothing but scoring with penalties for any other usage. But I doubt many clubs have monthly matches of 12 stages with 200+ shooters. Would I be willing to do it for an annual match with that many, yes, I would. And as for it taking hours away from the festivities, let's see... I use two Excel spreadsheets, enter the scores on each and use the total columns to double check accuracy. The spreadsheets could be set up ahead of time with names and categories, and grouped by posse to make it easier. Most annuals don't shoot 12 stages in one day, it's 5-6 stages over two days. So let's say 6 stages a day, 200 shooters. Entering in scores for that many shooters with the other info already on it would take about 1.5 to 1.75 hours or so to do it twice. Another 10-15 minutes to compare total columns for discrepancies, fix any mistakes, and sort by rank. Next day, another 2 hours or so for the other 6 stages. At every annual I've been to, there's been several hours between the end of the shooting and the beginning of the evening events, plenty of time to spend those 2 hours each day on something useful. Otherwise it's just time spent alone in the motel room/trailer waiting for something else to do. Would I do it, in a heartbeat! But on the other hand, let's say I go to an annual where cell phones/tablets rule. I spend 5-6 hours shooting, but no socializing then, everyone is too busy on their phones to bother. Then I spend another 3-4 hours alone in the trailer, with nothing useful to do, and no one to talk to cuz everyone is too busy with their phones. Then go to the evening events, and guess what! Still no socializing because...again...everyone is too busy with their phones and such, I ain't important enough to bother with. Guess which one I'm likely to spend my money and time on, and which one I won't waste my time on. Think it won't happen? I see it coming already, it's just a matter of when, not if. We're already heading in that direction, this is just another step towards speeding it up. Maybe not everywhere, but how long before it's too hard to know ahead of time what events are worth going to and which aren't? For the people perfectly happy letting computers and electronic devices and cell phones run their whole lives, that may not bother them at all. For those people, fine, I hope you do still enjoy yourselves, I really do. I wish you all the best and good shooting! I'm only speaking for myself, but that's the day I find something else to do with my time and my money. I have little enough of both, and mine won't be spent watching people play with their phones and such while I'm bored and lonely. I do have other hobbies. I just hope I get at least a couple more years out of this one before then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Wind-Walker #36748 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Okie......... You asked to be corrected if you were wrong......ok - here we go...... Your post....... One problem I see right off is not having the ability to print labels for the results. The SASS Premier Program allows printing labels, which we stick on the name tag on the back of the ribbons we hand out. Makes the awards ceremony go easy. Using the A.C.E.S. app, we'd have to hand write all of the names onto the ribbon card. This takes a lot of additional time. So we'd save time on one end, but lose time on the other end. Please correct me if I am wrong. Like I said, I haven't had time to explore this program fully. I told you we did our homework....... Our guys worked with C.D.Tom and == SASS premier and A.C.E.S. are fully integrated with each other........files and info can travel back and forth.........label info too...... Example: The US Open in Sparta 1. Registration was done in Sass Premier. 2. Main Match Scoring was done with A.C.E.S. We imported all the Posse info from SASS premier === into A.C.E.S. with the touch of "one button".......every device we had = had all the posse info in it ready to go to the stages..... Same thing with Main Match Scoring = with "one button" we sent all the scoring to "SASS Premier" = then the Match directors used it from there.......... A.C.E.S. is also integrated with "Round Up"..............and the tech guys tell me it is easy to go with any computer, program, spread sheet, data base and pull or send info back and forth......... So hope this helps you Okie......???? And you know what.............I'll say it again............we probably did not think of everything...........Pitt and his people who worked on this are "real good".......and we had a bunch of other folks test it and give us feedback....we actually had license to send out 100 units((APPS)) for trial......and we used the majority of those up.....T-Bone and Honey did a great job with it at the Bar 3......we have made changes along the way.........I just sat with the engineer on this, this past Monday and made a suggestion of my own on results print outs....and passed another suggestion on from a Cowboy shooters who had emailed me..... So keep those cards and letters coming folks.........cause all "pertinent" stuff you bring to us will help us make our product better for you......... NOTE: Pitt is working on videos next week for instructions on usage and capabilities of A.C.E.S. and we will get them on line as soon as possible.... That way a lot of the stuff you are bringing up & concerns will be explained. OH -- BIG NOTE: It "may" help you if you go to the website and read the info there........ Acesscoring.Com Thanks again for all the ideas and feedback........we appreciate ya......regards..Wolf 435-669-3221 Sttarrwol@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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