Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Now you know why I left medicine, why my wife will be leaving medicine in a couple of years, and why you may be scrambling to find a doc in the future. :angry: Clicky Clicky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Plus, you Docs will be the gov't 'scape-goats', when it all falls apart too. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's from Fox, so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hey, I think Badlands is finally seeing the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaky Gun Runner SASS 79775 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 This exactly mirrors the personal conversations I have had with five physicians I know. One is my treating physician and the others are personal friends. I have know three of them for years now. I do not care who the provider was for this story. My limited exposure directly confirms the information as presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 My wife is in the medical field and she says exactly the same thing. It's what happens when the ill equiped and uninformed, (i.e. Politicians) make policy decisions that place additional burdens on the individuals who actually do the work (Doctors) and expect them to do it for less. Same thing has happend in the engineering fields, my profession, and just look at the drop in engineering graduates. If you ask the students why they didn't go into engineering, they say that the course of study is too hard, the hours are too long, and there is not enough reward at the end. Becoming a Doctor is harder, takes even longer, and cost a heck of a lot more to boot. I expect the number of medical school graduates will continue to fall and the shortage will get worse. I think I will stop now before I get too political. "Bottles, Set em up while it's still legal for me to kill my own liver!" Dogmeat Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's from Fox, so it must be true. Uhhhh no. It's FROM Dr. Marc Siegel, an associate professor of medicine and medical director of Doctor Radio at NYU Langone Medical Center. He's a member of what Fox calls their "Medical A Team". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's from Fox, so it must be true. What's your point? Just post a link that shows it ain't so......... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Uhhhh no. It's FROM Dr. Marc Siegel, an associate professor of medicine and medical director of Doctor Radio at NYU Langone Medical Center. He's a member of what Fox calls their "Medical A Team". Ditto - my father in law is an OBGYN at Hoag (Newport beach, CA) ~ he shared some serious issues same as expressed in the article. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Never fear. The government will make everything alright by establishing a huge, new agency who will have complete authority over all medical records and who will dictate the direction of any care given. They'll take the paper load off for say 15 billion give but mostly take ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 It's from Fox, so it must be true. well....not only from Fox... http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/medicine-and-politics-america/2012/jun/28/affordable-health-care-obamacare-physicians/ GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 yup... doctor shortage is well known. Govt' has been messing with them for some time now. If you understand the invisible hand theory of economics, you can always see shortages coming down the road. Basically, govt interference with free enterprise (price setting) most always results in a shortage of goods and services, in this case Doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 What's your point? Just post a link that shows it ain't so......... LG Shrug. Just go to the AARP site. Of course the doctors don't like it, they'll earn less. Me, I'm a Federal employee and my pay has been frozen for a couple of years. Times are rough all over. Besides, we've been facing a doctor shortage for a couple of decades, now, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Shrug. Just go to the AARP site. Of course the doctors don't like it, they'll earn less. Me, I'm a Federal employee and my pay has been frozen for a couple of years. Times are rough all over. Besides, we've been facing a doctor shortage for a couple of decades, now, as I recall. YOU, trust what AARP spits out...... :lol: Yet, you slam Fox News....... Carry on, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Forget what FOX or CNN or MSNBC or any of the others say. Go talk to your doctor. Listen to Okie, I don't think he's barking up the wrong tree. I know too many doctors who totally agree with this article. There are way more doctors retiring than graduating. I don't know of any doctors who went to medical school for however many years that LIKE insurance companies telling them what the can and can't do. It's only going to become worse under ObamaCare. Several years ago my neice, an RN, came down with MS and wasn't able to do the physical stuff most nurses are required to do. She took a job with an insurance company, reviewing requests from doctors for procedures. Basically her job was to review the patient's medical records and decide if the procedure was beneficial or not to the patient, then approve or disapprove the procedure. She quit that job very quickly, when in her heart she knew the RIGHT thing to do, but had to do the WRONG thing. Now my niece is smarter than most doctors, but can you say the same thing about the average gov't employee that will be going over your records? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 YOU, trust what AARP spits out...... :lol: Yet, you slam Fox News....... Carry on, LG AARP as a reliable source! Wow, I feel guilty about sending their application back with a copy of an NRA application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 +1 AARP leadership was communicating daily with the administration on the pro spin and advertising campaign during the lead up to the final vote. Do your research on what AARP really stands for - it isn't in the best interests of seniors. The public release emails show they were trying to hide their position from the board of directors since they had been bombarded by membership in opposition to Pelosi-Obama (PO) Care. I send them the NRA Application together with a few washers in their return postagepaid envelope - they pay the return postage based on weight. Harvey A Senior concerned with the anti-American and anti-senior policies of AARP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Shrug. Just go to the AARP site. And see what they say about seniors and guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Several years ago my neice, an RN, came down with MS and wasn't able to do the physical stuff most nurses are required to do. She took a job with an insurance company, reviewing requests from doctors for procedures. Basically her job was to review the patient's medical records and decide if the procedure was beneficial or not to the patient, then approve or disapprove the procedure. She quit that job very quickly, when in her heart she knew the RIGHT thing to do, but had to do the WRONG thing. Now my niece is smarter than most doctors, but can you say the same thing about the average gov't employee that will be going over your records? Right. It's been the insurance premiums and reimbusement rates that have been driving medical personnel out of the business and, true to conservative principles, the insurance companies have been pretty much free to follow "market forces." The same way the banks were. The obvious solution is to leave things alone and to keep letting the insurance companies drive doctors into other fields. How could things get any worse than they already are? And all you conservatives are going to be voting for the guy who designed the prototype for Obamacare, and who has said he's going to keep most of Obamacare's provisions in place, even as you complain about Obamacare. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 And see what they say about seniors and guns! So? What's that got to do with medical insurance? Just because I might sit down with you and we have a beer together doesn't mean I agree with everything you say. Just because I like Obamacare doesn't mean I like Obama's stance on, say, immigration. I tend to lean to the left, but the Left doesn't have any greater lock on the truth than does the Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just curious Okie what are ya gonna be doing now that you're getting out of doctorin'?? Just being a little nosy is all. My Doc has implied he may be retiring early. He's a good doctor and I will miss him. Grrrrrrr.....%^&$#@ Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just curious Okie what are ya gonna be doing now that you're getting out of doctorin'?? Just being a little nosy is all. My Doc has implied he may be retiring early. He's a good doctor and I will miss him. Grrrrrrr.....%^&$#@ Rye Honestly, I don't know how I ever got anything done while working. So what do I do now? I went to night school at a junior college and took the Dreamweaver course, which is a terrific web site building tool. I built two cowboy web sites and run them. I run our parent club's web site as well. I TG at two clubs and am match director at one of them. I build all of our wood props, and my sidekick, Dynamite, does all of the welding. Together we built 7 false fronts for our range, and we maintain our section of the range. I write all of the stages for the Mima club. I make a dandy house husband, doing my daily routine of taking out the trash, doing dishes, doing laundry, and making supper. I do all of the check book balancing and paying bills. I am off shortly to buy groceries and take in clothes to the cleaners. I now have time to shoot 3-4 matches a month. Then there is all of the gun cleaning, reloading, and such. And now I have time to come in the Saloon and harrass folks. Finally, I get to do something I never had time for while working -- just kick back and read a good book. I never have to worry about filling my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You left out the time spent in the outhouse and playing with SQUEAKY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calico Mary Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly, I don't know how I ever got anything done while working. So what do I do now? I went to night school at a junior college and took the Dreamweaver course, which is a terrific web site building tool. I built two cowboy web sites and run them. I run our parent club's web site as well. I TG at two clubs and am match director at one of them. I build all of our wood props, and my sidekick, Dynamite, does all of the welding. Together we built 7 false fronts for our range, and we maintain our section of the range. I write all of the stages for the Mima club. I make a dandy house husband, doing my daily routine of taking out the trash, doing dishes, doing laundry, and making supper. I do all of the check book balancing and paying bills. I am off shortly to buy groceries and take in clothes to the cleaners. I now have time to shoot 3-4 matches a month. Then there is all of the gun cleaning, reloading, and such. And now I have time to come in the Saloon and harrass folks. Finally, I get to do something I never had time for while working -- just kick back and read a good book. I never have to worry about filling my day. Geez, you do all that?? Maybe I should hire you....then I might get some work done on those quilts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Right. It's been the insurance premiums and reimbusement rates that have been driving medical personnel out of the business and, true to conservative principles, the insurance companies have been pretty much free to follow "market forces." The same way the banks were. The obvious solution is to leave things alone and to keep letting the insurance companies drive doctors into other fields. How could things get any worse than they already are? I work in the health insurance field and have spent the last 10 years loading provider contracts, both hospital and physician. The average room & board rate for hospitals on urban and suburban areas runs between $2000-$3000 a day. That covers the bed, the food and basics such as bandages. Normally billed separately are drugs, the physician's bill, the anesthesiologist's bill, the surgeon's bill, etc. The doctor that comes in and visits you for 5-10 minutes in the hospital just billed your insurance company between $110-$120. That 10-15 minutes that you actually see the doctor in the doctor's office? They bill between $150-$180 for that. The vast majority of hospital contracts get Cost of Living Adjustments (COLA) every year that run between 3.5% to 7% and the same applies to the physicians, so don't talk about lowered reimbursement rates. All of those amounts are the CONTRACTED rate negotiated between the provider and the insurance company. Here's a real world MEDICARE example. Several years ago my father went to the ER on a Thursday night and was admitted for problems with his gall bladder, he had surgery Friday where they stuck a small tube in and removed the gall bladder. He was discharged home on Tuesday. The hospital bill was $55,000 for relatively a straight forward procedure. That did not include the surgeon or anesthesiologist. The MEDICARE negotiated rate was $48,000. If he didn't have supplemental insurance from the health insurance companies you're so critical of, he would have owed the remaining 20% that Medicare doesn't cover. There are lots of reasons that medical costs are sky rocketing, but to try and place ALL the blame on the insurance industry is absurd. And if you hate the health insurance companies so much, feel free to drop your coverage. Here is a link to the organization that did the study http://www.physiciansfoundation.org/healthcare-research/a-survey-of-americas-physicians-practice-patterns-and-perspectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 It's from Fox, so it must be true. I wouldn't believe it just for that reason. As I trust Fox almost as little as I trust abc, nbc and cbs. But It would appear to be true. I recently had a discussion with my Doctor and he agrees with premise of the article. Also while waiting at an airport I talked to a couple both of which are doctors and they fundamentally agree. Underpaid overworked overwhelmed with paperwork that will grow. Obamacare is NOT the answer it will be the next health care PROBLEM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Just about anything that the government gets involved in turns out to be not what it was labeled to be and most likely a disaster. The boys and girls in congress just can not resist the urge to nudge things in their favor and they seem to forget about the folks that voted them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 So? What's that got to do with medical insurance? Just because I might sit down with you and we have a beer together doesn't mean I agree with everything you say. Just because I like Obamacare doesn't mean I like Obama's stance on, say, immigration. I tend to lean to the left, but the Left doesn't have any greater lock on the truth than does the Right. AARP's stance on guns doesn't have anything to do with insurance. But the fact that they don't think seniors should have guns is serious enough for me. ANY organization, facility, store, or whatever that DOESN'T recognize MY right to bear guns doesn't get any support from me. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 I work in the health insurance field and have spent the last 10 years loading provider contracts, both hospital and physician. The average room & board rate for hospitals on urban and suburban areas runs between $2000-$3000 a day. That covers the bed, the food and basics such as bandages. Normally billed separately are drugs, the physician's bill, the anesthesiologist's bill, the surgeon's bill, etc. The doctor that comes in and visits you for 5-10 minutes in the hospital just billed your insurance company between $110-$120. That 10-15 minutes that you actually see the doctor in the doctor's office? They bill between $150-$180 for that. Doc can bill anything they want. It is what Medicare or the insurance companies reimburse is the bottom line for docs. It cost me $22 to see a patient, considering overhead, supplies, etc. I got reimbursed $17 for welfare patients, so I paid the state 5 bucks for seeing them. Medicare reimbursed about $40. Top insurance companies reimbursed about $60-63 per patient. A busy day is about 28 patients. When you do the math, and you consider malpractice, etc., a primary care doc (Family Practice, Pediatrics, General Internal Medicine) is lucky to make $150,000 a year. When you consider this is for 70-80 hour weeks due to the outrageous amount of paperwork, it is not much money for the years of education and the expense involved. I do not recommend medicine to young folks who inquire. It is sad to say this, but it is a fact. Now certain specialties make considerably more, especially if they have their own procedure center like my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 AARP's stance on guns doesn't have anything to do with insurance. But the fact that they don't think seniors should have guns is serious enough for me. ANY organization, facility, store, or whatever that DOESN'T recognize MY right to bear guns doesn't get any support from me. Period. +1. AARP is a joke. I see they are even trying to distance themselves from Obama, because it has hurt their bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Shrug. Just go to the AARP site. Of course the doctors don't like it, they'll earn less. Me, I'm a Federal employee and my pay has been frozen for a couple of years. Times are rough all over. Besides, we've been facing a doctor shortage for a couple of decades, now, as I recall. AARP has been at cross purposes with the senior citizens for many years. They saddled up and rode with Obama and friends for the profits they saw. They have NOT represented the rank and file senior citizens' best interests and that is the reason I quit participating in their endeavors!! Right. It's been the insurance premiums and reimbusement rates that have been driving medical personnel out of the business and, true to conservative principles, the insurance companies have been pretty much free to follow "market forces." The same way the banks were. The obvious solution is to leave things alone and to keep letting the insurance companies drive doctors into other fields. How could things get any worse than they already are? And all you conservatives are going to be voting for the guy who designed the prototype for Obamacare, and who has said he's going to keep most of Obamacare's provisions in place, even as you complain about Obamacare. Go figure. How could it get any worse? My coverage has shrunk in the last couple of years because the insurance providers are finding themselves controled by government interferance and unrealistic guidelines brought on by onerous legislation. They don't like Obummercare any more than those of us who refuse to drink the koolade. As far as the template for Obummercare being the brainchild of former gov. Romney, look at so many other good ideas that have been taken to ridiculous extremes. More cubic inches makes an engine more powerful, but if you bore it out too far the cylinder walls collapse!! We are being pushed to the point where the walls of medicine are going to collapse!! +1. AARP is a joke. I see they are even trying to distance themselves from Obama, because it has hurt their bottom line. And in the grand scheme of things, the ONLY thing AARP is concerned about is their bottom line. AARP in no more an association than the NBA. It is a business, and from my experience and perspective, one of the most preditory and self serving businesses there is!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Why did I open this thread? WHY? I don't wanna be serious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Doc can bill anything they want. It is what Medicare or the insurance companies reimburse is the bottom line for docs. It cost me $22 to see a patient, considering overhead, supplies, etc. I got reimbursed $17 for welfare patients, so I paid the state 5 bucks for seeing them. Medicare reimbursed about $40. Top insurance companies reimbursed about $60-63 per patient. A busy day is about 28 patients. When you do the math, and you consider malpractice, etc., a primary care doc (Family Practice, Pediatrics, General Internal Medicine) is lucky to make $150,000 a year. When you consider this is for 70-80 hour weeks due to the outrageous amount of paperwork, it is not much money for the years of education and the expense involved. I do not recommend medicine to young folks who inquire. It is sad to say this, but it is a fact. Now certain specialties make considerably more, especially if they have their own procedure center like my wife. I agree there is too much paperwork and that overhead costs are too high, I even agree there is room for improvement in the health insurance companies, just tired of being blamed for ALL the problems by people who don't realize how hard I and my co-workers work every day to make sure claims get paid properly and promptly. As for the numbers I quoted, they are from recent contracts, however there are regional differences that might cause the $60-$63 per patient you stated above. I find that number low based on what I have seen recently, but it may also depend on the billing codes that you billed with and the ones I looked at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 I agree there is too much paperwork and that overhead costs are too high, I even agree there is room for improvement in the health insurance companies, just tired of being blamed for ALL the problems by people who don't realize how hard I and my co-workers work every day to make sure claims get paid properly and promptly. I hear ya. It is the administration that is too fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Why did I open this thread? WHY? I don't wanna be serious! Ya' done it 'cause yer a glutton for punishment and ya' have a secret need to subject yourself to extraordinary stress and discomfort of the political kind!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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