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? for the smokey powder shooters


evil dogooder

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Well after seeing so many females at our state match last weekend my mother has finally decided to take the plunge. But what category? ??? She was thinking maybe frontier cartridge but wants to shoot 38's she really likes the model p Jr's because of old injuries she can't take the weight of full size guns all day.

 

Soo what should she be concerned with? Recoil? I dont really feel recoil so its easy for me to say its not bad, but us it something to consuder?

 

It appears that if she does join up my the rest of the family will to, (dad&my wife) they have been thinking of it already but if mom goes well then they have no excuse

Its taken me nine years to convince my mother that guns arent bad so to hear here say she wanted a handgun of her own today, well, its a good day.

 

Now apache before you get all excited she is just debating the dark side. But of course if she does well...... maybe youll get a few more sooty shooters.

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I can't really comment on smokeless vs. mosquito repellant, but I have arthritis in my hands, and can't handle the heavier guns either. I have two sets of pistols, one is Model P Jrs. and the other are Lightnings, basically the same guns but with different grips. I like them, if I get any more it will be moer Lightnings, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone with hand problems or just small hands.

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There will be only a little recoil with any BP or sub load (except maybe 777) in a 38 spl. If she enjoys looking thru the smoke for targets, and doesn't mind (or even likes) the smell and the boom, why NOT let her have fun her way? It's a little more work loading, more frequent cleaning, and more expense, but if that does not harm her fun, let her have at it!

 

To get started the easiest, you might suggest APP sub powder and a light bullet (105 or 125gr). Fill the case to bottom of bullet, smokeless lube on bullets is fine, and see how the guns she picks out like it.

 

And tell her, WELCOME to the DARKSIDE!

 

Good luck, GJ

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Well after seeing so many females at our state match last weekend my mother has finally decided to take the plunge. But what category? ??? She was thinking maybe frontier cartridge but wants to shoot 38's she really likes the model p Jr's because of old injuries she can't take the weight of full size guns all day.

 

Soo what should she be concerned with? Recoil? I dont really feel recoil so its easy for me to say its not bad, but us it something to consuder?

 

It appears that if she does join up my the rest of the family will to, (dad&my wife) they have been thinking of it already but if mom goes well then they have no excuse

Its taken me nine years to convince my mother that guns arent bad so to hear here say she wanted a handgun of her own today, well, its a good day.

 

Now apache before you get all excited she is just debating the dark side. But of course if she does well...... maybe youll get a few more sooty shooters.

 

Oh Mighty Evil One.....

 

Ya have just given us "Lords Of Da Shoot" somethin' to look ferward too ! Bless yur pea pickin' heart ! LOL !

 

Ok, let's git serious fer a minture ! The hand gun should fit well with her. No matter she is going to shoot smokeless or "Holy Black" or even the caliber, it should fit well. And make sure that when not if, she buys a handgun, she buys two......not just one. Trying to find another one that fits her hand will be very hard indeed if she does not buy two. And, like I always say to a new shooter, go cheap....used is best !

 

Frontier Cartridge will work for 38's. Hell Evil, Wild Bill shot 36's which I have. But 38's can be "Holy Black" and cheaper to shot. Now, you must reload you're own, for the ammo companies do not make ANY BLACK POWDER LOADS.......PERIOD ! So you or who ever will need a press and so on. When that time comes, I'll by glad to help y'all up the trail. But with "Holy Black", it is more forgiving than smokeless because it doesn't have nearly the pressure when firing as smokeless does. So, you can load lighter or heavier than the load chart says, depending on how much fire power she wants.

 

I would consider it an honor to meet you're family should they come up with you some time !

 

If ya got any more questions, just PM me ok ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, back ta my old southern talk,y'all, k ?

 

 

 

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"because of old injuries she can't take the weight of full size guns all day."

--------

Every so often I see this statement. "Weight of guns all day."

 

38 caliber handguns weight more than larger caliber of same models and barrel length. All day would be a carrying in holster issue. Have a place in gun cart to put the guns between shooting stages.

 

If you're referring to actual shooting, then consider a new shooters shooting 60 second stages is only holding the handguns an average of about 20 seconds per stage for both. That's less than 3 minutes for an eight stage match.

 

If you're referring to felt recoil then the shotgun will be the gun to work on. No matter how light your loads, they will still have heavier recoil that revolver loads.

 

If the injury was a wrist issue the shotgun will still be the gun that needs to be over come.

---------------

My opinion working with lady shooters new to cas.

 

Work with revolvers and rifles. Once they are comfortable with these then move to the shotgun using light loads. Women usually lean back at the waist and this causes undue reaction to recoil. Having a lady bend forward at the waist and not just lean forward at the ankles will help. Women new to shotgun shooting tend to have their feet too close together. Once they take a stance, have them extend their front foot another 2" to 3" and lean forward at the waist.

 

If a lady does not like shooting a shotgun the chances are they won't want to continue at all. If they do like the shotgun once a good stance is acquired and the recoil is not stepping them back AND they hit their targets a few times...I suggest you hand over a box of shotgun rounds and get out of the way.

 

But don't over do it the first time and don't force them to shoot if they don't like the first try. Stop for a while and then go back the guns they did like if they want to continue.

-----------------

38spl rounds

Smokeless can be down loaded rather well. BP can to.

 

The issue is perceived recoil.

Smokeless has a sharp rap to it's recoil.

BP has a smooth longer recoil.

 

If the smokeless and BP rounds have the same velocity, the perceived recoil will be more with the smokeless.

.

.

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It may be true that pistols in 38 may be heavier than other calibers, but if she's leaning towards 38s, I guarantee both sets of my Cimarrons weigh a lot less than my husband's Rugers. I had to use them once in a match (I only had the Jrs at the time) when one of my pistols broke on the first stage. By the time I got to stage 6 my hands hurt so bad they were shaking, and my wrists were so tired I could barely lift the Rugers out of the holsters. Yeah, I only had to hold them about 60-70 seconds at a time, but that was way too long!

 

I do say +1 on the shotgun advice, it took almost 3 years for me to get comfortable with mine! Now it's my favorite....

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"because of old injuries she can't take the weight of full size guns all day."

--------

Every so often I see this statement. "Weight of guns all day."

 

38 caliber handguns weight more than larger caliber of same models and barrel length. All day would be a carrying in holster issue. Have a place in gun cart to put the guns between shooting stages.

 

If you're referring to actual shooting, then consider a new shooters shooting 60 second stages is only holding the handguns an average of about 20 seconds per stage for both. That's less than 3 minutes for an eight stage match.

 

If you're referring to felt recoil then the shotgun will be the gun to work on. No matter how light your loads, they will still have heavier recoil that revolver loads.

 

If the injury was a wrist issue the shotgun will still be the gun that needs to be over come.

---------------

My opinion working with lady shooters new to cas.

 

Work with revolvers and rifles. Once they are comfortable with these then move to the shotgun using light loads. Women usually lean back at the waist and this causes undue reaction to recoil. Having a lady bend forward at the waist and not just lean forward at the ankles will help. Women new to shotgun shooting tend to have their feet too close together. Once they take a stance, have them extend their front foot another 2" to 3" and lean forward at the waist.

 

If a lady does not like shooting a shotgun the chances are they won't want to continue at all. If they do like the shotgun once a good stance is acquired and the recoil is not stepping them back AND they hit their targets a few times...I suggest you hand over a box of shotgun rounds and get out of the way.

 

But don't over do it the first time and don't force them to shoot if they don't like the first try. Stop for a while and then go back the guns they did like if they want to continue.

-----------------

38spl rounds

Smokeless can be down loaded rather well. BP can to.

 

The issue is perceived recoil.

Smokeless has a sharp rap to it's recoil.

BP has a smooth longer recoil.

 

If the smokeless and BP rounds have the same velocity, the perceived recoil will be more with the smokeless.

.

.

 

 

Actually if you check the guns i am talking about they are lighter. Its on a 3/4 size frame and the 38 is the largest caliber it comes with. Its almost a pound lighter then the standard size framed 45. She is looking at plow handle sheriff's model with a 3-1/2" barrel.

 

As for shotgun shes looking at single shots. 20 or 12.

 

Rifle shes been looking at 16" trappers.

 

Shes a crack shot shot with a rifle and has no problem with the shotgun as long as its light. Its not a wrist or arm injury but a back injury she literally cant take the strain of heavy guns held at arns length some days.

 

For her its not about speed at all but costumes and a big boom.

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Just to clear up a little.

 

I was not recommending larger caliber guns over 38spl.

Just explaining subtle differences in weight when carried.

------------

On choice of shotguns.

12 vs 20

More factory choices with 12ga.

More reloading options with 12ga.

 

However, the choice will be best made by the lady trying each with several different loads to find what works for her.

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evil dogooder,

My experience over the last 10 years with Lightning small frame pistols:They are too tight and too light for .38 Specials full of Black or APP. They love .38 Short Colt full of black. .38 SC does not meet the black powder standard for SASS. After some break in; they handle .38 Long Colt very nicely and meet the SASS "smoke standard". YMMV.

Graf and sons has .38 Long Colt brass. My dies are Lee and can be used for both Short and Long Colt.

We would love to welcome mom to the dark side. B):lol:

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I shoot '38 pistol and rifle in the sooty stuff. I also shoot duelist with rugar bisley's (love my new guns!!!!). So just frontier cartridge may be fine with two hands for her. I have two different people that will load shot gun for me. One is a fairly light load and the other is a little heavier. The heavier one I just really need to remember to have the shot gun positioned correctly in my arm.

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I shoot black and shoot 38's. the problems see with the lightnings is the cylinder clearance is too tight with black. I like the cimarron thunderballs, they have the lowered hammers and have great clearance for the black. I had a set and they were awesome with black and we have a load that the recoil is low but meets the smoke and power factor. We use APP. Check them out. You can get the plow handle or the birdsheads grips.

 

Painted Filly

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Considering shotgun, the old 20 kicks harder than a 12 is a valid arguement, BUT you can load very light 20 gauge shells with around 30 grains of BP or equivalent sub, proper wad length and then 3/4 oz of shot. Barely notice it going off, even in the little NEF shotguns, but it will still do it's half of the knockdown job.

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Hawk Buffalo Arms sells black powder cartridges and our buddy Cliff Hanger sells some BP subs LINK and there may be others.

 

 

Tanks Grizz !

 

Got a old Buffalo Arms catalog an they don't list any.

 

Glad to see dey are carryin' da "Holy Black !"

 

 

 

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