Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Have you seen post 67 I am shaming the ideal, not a someone. <SNIP> how about if a shooter hits the feet of the stand, not silly madd-0ne, that’s a miss. Talk about a subject change to a rule? Is it the TARGET STAND? wheeeewwwwwie... now that's damn fine shootin' in some parts! Yeeeee haaaawwww...make it dance, MM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Is it the TARGET STAND? wheeeewwwwwie... now that's damn fine shootin' in some parts! Yeeeee haaaawwww...make it dance, MM! That's not damn fine shootin'. It's damn fine story telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Usually shooting description say engage targets.......... not the target stands,here in FL at the clubs I've shot at hitting the stand is a miss. AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Hell, if a club wants to make a special tree designated the target tree...if you miss the target, but hit the target tree...it's a hit. Whatever... If y'all feel great about missing the target surface and hitting the stand...or chain...or tree...good for you. I wouldn't be too happy with my performance. But...that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Have you seen post 67 I am shaming the ideal, not a someone. I believe that clubs should follow the governing rules set forth by the rules committee. You may be asking why? Shooters should be able to travel the world in the quest of experiencing what the SASS founders have set in motion. They should not have to worry about which SASS rules those clubs will enforce, or which ones they will change. TG meeting after TG meeting, we talk about this very simple concept, the attending TG’s are highly encouraged to go back to their constituents and explain to them the basic theory behind that concept. On a action target (huge stand) where is the defining line, if a shooter hits kind of low it’s a hit, if a shooter hits really low it’s a hit, how about if a shooter hits the feet of the stand, not silly madd-0ne, that’s a miss. Talk about a subject change to a rule? Fair enough Mike. You show me where a target is defined in the rule books and I will be sure that each club I shoot at is at least aware of those rules. But if they still choose to designate any steel as target, what would you suggest? What would you do, leave the match? Or maybe it's just implied that the biggest piece of steel out there is the target. So we should all follow the same implications, right? Like how it is implied that rank points are the best way to score and that the sanctioning body suggests that all clubs use this method. Oh wait, that doesn't fit your model, does it. How about you Phantom? Are all SASS rules and implications in force at the club you are involved with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 MM - I understand your point and goal. But there will always be host ranges that insist on rule variations. True and full uniformity can not be achieved without mandates that would either result in clubs losing a place to shoot, or said clubs continuing on as they are today and ignoring the mandates. What then, pull the clubs affiliation over it? Unless there are a whole lot of other examples that I'm not aware of, it's not a rampant thing. Anywhere I've shot that has such variations makes a point of spelling it out at the shooters meeting, and also stating that "this may not be how it's done elsewhere." As another poster pointed out, some practices seem to vary by where the club is, and to me that is part of the fun of visiting new paces to shoot. I will agree that the rules, as published, and variations announced at the shooters meeting need to be enforced fairly and uniformly for everyone in a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Fair enough Mike. You show me where a target is defined in the rule books and I will be sure that each club I shoot at is at least aware of those rules. But if they still choose to designate any steel as target, what would you suggest? What would you do, leave the match? Or maybe it's just implied that the biggest piece of steel out there is the target. So we should all follow the same implications, right? Like how it is implied that rank points are the best way to score and that the sanctioning body suggests that all clubs use this method. Oh wait, that doesn't fit your model, does it. How about you Phantom? Are all SASS rules and implications in force at the club you are involved with? Like I said, local clubs can do whatever they want...it's their field...their ball. I gave my personal opinion...that's all it is. I would seriously rib my friends for taking credit for a hit when the hit was on the stand...but if it's the local rule...his/her score would obviously stand...oh well. In my mind, I would know that I was aiming at some section of the target face. If I didn't hit said target face, I would "Feel" that I didn't hit the target. Now would I argue a Clean call? Nope, the local rules is the local rules. But if you then asked me after I won the BIG ONE whether I missed...I would say yes...and frankly feel kinda bad about it. But...everyone in the match was playin by the same Local rules... Is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Like I said, local clubs can do whatever they want...it's their field...their ball. I gave my personal opinion...that's all it is. I would seriously rib my friends for taking credit for a hit when the hit was on the stand...but if it's the local rule...his/her score would obviously stand...oh well. In my mind, I would know that I was aiming at some section of the target face. If I didn't hit said target face, I would "Feel" that I didn't hit the target. Now would I argue a Clean call? Nope, the local rules is the local rules. But if you then asked me after I won the BIG ONE whether I missed...I would say yes...and frankly feel kinda bad about it. But...everyone in the match was playin by the same Local rules... Is what it is... BINGO! That's all I'm saying. Local clubs need a little latitude in the rules. As long as it is made known to all before the match, and all play with the same rules, then all is well. Sort of like 'Ground Rules' in baseball. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 In 8 years of SASS. And shooting around a pretty good bit. I have NEVER seen it a problem EVER at clubs that call it either way. Me personally. I think the target is the target not the stand. But if a club wants to call the stand part of the target. NO BIG DEAL. Just as long as it is called that way for everyone. Just see this as a big non issue. With all the other stuff to worry about. This is NOT one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I knew a club that 'once had' a big steel target with a top, middle and bottom row of smallish KD targets. Jungle rules (stage description) said to knock down x targets. It was soon discovered that if you hit the frame and targets vibrated down, it was a hit(s), depending on how many fell. The folks that shot those calibers that started with four (4) definitely had an advange. No body cared and it was rather fun and entertaining to the posse to see the folks shooting the big calibers have an advantage for a change. It got to the point where most folks learned the sweet spot of the frame to attempt the mostest KD targets per bullet. It didn't always work, but often enough, it did. A definite home town advantage to know that particular targets characteristics. If the shooter was really going for the caddy, then it was very wise to go for each individual target, but if you missed and got the frame, there was a chance the target may fall. Target was only used in monthlies and not all the time either. Haven't seen it used in a year or two. That club has a few other different rules they play by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Then there is that big huge NOT A TARGET where the shooter gets "dinged" if there IS a ding. All shots have to be a miss on steel... or it's a miss. What the heck do ya call that one? :wacko: How about calling it "CREATIVE". God Bless Texas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Then there is that big huge NOT A TARGET where the shooter gets "dinged" if there IS a ding. All shots have to be a miss on steel... or it's a miss. What the heck do ya call that one? :wacko: How about calling it "CREATIVE". God Bless Texas! I LOVE that target!!! I'd never done anything like that before the first time I saw that target, it was way outside my 'box' of experience, but it was WAY FUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Then there is that big huge NOT A TARGET where the shooter gets "dinged" if there IS a ding. All shots have to be a miss on steel... or it's a miss. What the heck do ya call that one? :wacko: How about calling it "CREATIVE". God Bless Texas! But some just could not miss. They hit, so had a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Friend... shooting the stand is a safety issue! Targets are suppose to be set so that the bullet is deflected down to the ground. The RO II course teaches us that. The RO Courses also teach us not to shoot a downed target. One reason for that is that the angles are NOT set up to deflect the bullet in a safe direction. THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR THE STAND. I've been around a while, and have never seen a stand that is designed to deflect the bullet down in a safe direction. Hello, Please read this post again and ask yourselves if clubs should encourage hitting the stand by considering it a hit. Hitting the stand is more dangerous than dropping an unloaded gun and no one argues that dropping an unloaded gun shouldn't be a SDQ. Of course, if you are not certain the stand was hit instead of the target, you don't call a miss. Just some food for thought. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 The annual Lazy Bob Ranch Invitational International Bi-lateral All Inclusive Match official target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So what we need is minor safety for hittig the stand? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Fair enough Mike. You show me where a target is defined in the rule books PW showed the rule about target Now we have to make the rule book more like the uniform building code book? Perhaps the issue might be Poor target design in some cases If you have a animal type target, where the feet are part of the stand????? Something like that? Maybe I still agree with phantom I aim for the target, and I would not take a stand hit as a hit (but that is just my personal quirk) Clubs can vary what they do But what they do may not really be the best in the whole of things When and if those shooters get used to that practice, they may become dispointed, when they enter a different shoot, and come to experiece different results. Mileage will always be altered by unforeseen or poorly articulated factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So what we need is minor safety for hittig the stand? I don't think so. Then why waste time posting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Then why waste time posting that. Pardon me, Mam... er...Ms. A-mo... but really if we took out all the time wasters on this here SASS WAHR we sure wouldn't have much readin' and writin' left to do...just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Thanks, I'll be sure and c heck with you or Brother King before I dare to have another opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Goody, get off the horse it's dead.. Brother King, I think You killed the horse.. Clubs Targets---- Clubs Rules !!!!!!Don't like it,,, then let Your feet do Your talking. Hey just kidding Goody and King, maybe Y'all can win a new saddle at CAC 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Wuz it gud shootin' whut kilt it, Missa Bone? Dang fire... I dint mean ta hit dat man, Goody. I was aimin' at the Not Target. Dintya seee da winky, Brudda Guddy? Daz be code fo' -jes kiddin' See? Now back to the political debate.....do ya think Madd Mike is a Democrat or a Republican...discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Wuz it gud shootin' whut kilt it, Missa Bone? Dang fire... I dint mean ta hit dat man, Goody. I was aimin' at the Not Target. Dintya seee da winky, Brudda Guddy? Daz be code fo' -jes kiddin' See? Now back to the political debate.....do ya think Madd Mike is a Democrat or a Republican...discuss. I will be willing to bet, that he is a democrat, So that he can vote several times (rumor / fact) snoopes it For the best candidate, That more often than not, agrees with his founding fathers principals or Madd Mikes comeuppance I was raised by a stepfather that was gung-ho Union / Democrat until he retired, and started investing his capital with the desire of good return Perhaps an independent only the shadow knows for sure LOL,,,LOL,,,LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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