Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 So I was perusing the GAO's 2012 report on concealed carry permit laws across the 50 states: http://www.gao.gov/assets/600/592552.pdf And much to my surprise, guess who has a higher percentage of concealed carry permit holders (as compared to the total population) than Texas??? Ha!!! MASSACHUSETTS!!! Don't tread on us!!! Makes us sound...well....armed! (Proof that if you look long and hard enough, you can find a statistic to support just about anything!) LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 a higher percentage "Numbers never lie but only liars use numbers." Not at all directed you you LL, just sort of backing up your point about being able to find a statistic to support almost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Not sure who said it but I've heard it said "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Not sure who said it but I've heard it said "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." That would be Mark Twain, I believe.... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I used to work with a guy who requested some analysis of a 'market basket' of data. I wrote the programs to give him what he wanted, he wasn't happy with it. He made me keep culling out records until it gave him the answers he wanted. Made me feel dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 IIRC there was a big shoot out on Lexington Common at one time. Kinda like the OK corral, only with King George's gang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 only because there's alot less people there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 only because there's alot less people there Well, that's the point, Jack...if you want to compare apples to apples, state to state, you need to look at the percentage column, not the raw count of permit holders. If you ask the question "Which state has the most permit holders", then Texas is in the top four, but the size of its population distorts the comparison with smaller states. But I wasn't being technical in the OP - just havin' some fun with numbers; we got so little to brag about regarding guns up here..... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is open carry allowed in Texas without a permit? That itself would make a permit unnecessary for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curley Fryes Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The report shows just the number of permit holders, not the number of people carrying. You don't need a permit in Arizona to carry concealed, so there is no way to quantify the number of people that actually carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Phil Peeno #50923 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The numbers are skewed. Not all of the Texas population can legally apply for a Concealed Handgun License especially when 16% of illegal immigrants reside in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The numbers are skewed. Not all of the Texas population can legally apply for a Concealed Handgun License especially when 16% of illegal immigrants reside in Texas. Shouldn't that be UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 The numbers are skewed. Not all of the Texas population can legally apply for a Concealed Handgun License especially when 16% of illegal immigrants reside in Texas. I suppose that might work both ways, depending upon whether illegals are counted in the population figures used in the report or not. And of course, other states have illegals as well. Like I said - at best, it's "fun with numbers"...but I'm still surprised at how many MA folks have permits. 'Course, we can't buy guns (let alone carry concealed) without some form of permit, so our numbers may be inflated by the fact that we need permits to do legally what folks in a lot of other states can do without a permit. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Oso, SASS #57788L Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Is open carry allowed in Texas without a permit? That itself would make a permit unnecessary for a lot of people. Open Carry in Texas has been illegal since "Reconstruction". One MAY carry (without a license)openly in one's home or place of business, or concealed in a vehicle. Two different laws. Home & Business under "Castle Doctrine" - vehicle under "Traveling" A CHL holder can carry concealed, but they are the only legal "citizens" allowed to carry and it must remain concealed. Open carry of a handgun is a big no-no. Open carry of locked & loaded LONG GUNS IS legal, but in certain urban areas, you WILL get an opportunity to chat with a member of the local constabulary, and you MIGHT be cited for disorderly conduct (especially if said long gun is perceived to be carried in a "threatening manner"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Open carry in Texas of a handgun is not legal. However, you may carry a handgun in your vehicle(with no CHL) but it MUST be concealed. There are restrictions on who of course, felons, KNOWN gang members,and those you have just or about to commit a crime. But other than that, almost anyone is good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 willing to bet there's alot more guns being carried or at least in vehicles in TEXAS than anywhere else!!! Permit or no permit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 willing to bet there's alot more guns being carried or at least in vehicles in TEXAS than anywhere else!!! Permit or no permit!! Probably...but I'd wonder about East LA..... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curley Fryes Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 willing to bet there's alot more guns being carried or at least in vehicles in TEXAS than anywhere else!!! Permit or no permit!! Ditto in Illinois, where there is no concealed carry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Shouldn't that be UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 When I was in college, I took a Statistics class. Our Professor said that if you counldn't prove your point, you obviously didn't have enough statistics. The moral of this is you can skew (not screw!) any point or arguement with statistics. He showed us how to make graphs that could show any point you wanted to make by just messing around with how the data is depicted and not changing any numbers. I see it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 When I was in college, I took a Statistics class. Our Professor said that if you counldn't prove your point, you obviously didn't have enough statistics. The moral of this is you can skew (not screw!) any point or arguement with statistics. He showed us how to make graphs that could show any point you wanted to make by just messing around with how the data is depicted and not changing any numbers. I see it all the time. ..... actually I think the correct word is screw ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Steel Duke Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 You know, as I look at the initial page showing the vast majority of shall issue states and the long list of reciprocity agreements, why the heck don't we have a unified Federal permit? If the handful of socialists republics don't want to participate, leave them in the dust. I truly feel for the long haul truckers who go from hero to felon as they cross a state line. EMS (National Registry) and law enforcement (LEOSA) have unified, why not CCW permits? BSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 You know, as I look at the initial page showing the vast majority of shall issue states and the long list of reciprocity agreements, why the heck don't we have a unified Federal permit? If the handful of socialists republics don't want to participate, leave them in the dust. I truly feel for the long haul truckers who go from hero to felon as they cross a state line. EMS (National Registry) and law enforcement (LEOSA) have unified, why not CCW permits? BSD Seems like they tried that in the Congress just last session...passed the House last Fall; been stuck in Judiciary Committee in the Senate since last March. Write your Senator? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Steel Duke Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Seems like they tried that in the Congress just last session...passed the House last Fall; been stuck in Judiciary Committee in the Senate since last March. Write your Senator? LL Step ahead of ya Pard! BSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 You know, as I look at the initial page showing the vast majority of shall issue states and the long list of reciprocity agreements, why the heck don't we have a unified Federal permit? If the handful of socialists republics don't want to participate, leave them in the dust. I truly feel for the long haul truckers who go from hero to felon as they cross a state line. EMS (National Registry) and law enforcement (LEOSA) have unified, why not CCW permits? BSD Congress is working on it but states like California and Illinois are fighting it for all they're worth. They have a lot of help from other blue states too. The trick is getting nationwide reciprocity without a national database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 You know, as I look at the initial page showing the vast majority of shall issue states and the long list of reciprocity agreements, why the heck don't we have a unified Federal permit? If the handful of socialists republics don't want to participate, leave them in the dust. I truly feel for the long haul truckers who go from hero to felon as they cross a state line. EMS (National Registry) and law enforcement (LEOSA) have unified, why not CCW permits? BSD I think it has to do with the states liking the idea of control over what happens in their state. As if that would take it away. Fundamentally, I agree. Another question is why the SCOTUS can't incorporate 2nd A? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 IIRC there was a big shoot out on Lexington Common at one time. Kinda like the OK corral, only with King George's gang. Except that the guys on the green didn't fire. The real scrap happened in Concord. And on the long retreat back to boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Shouldn't that be UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS? They are just plain Meskins around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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