The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Why do you limit yourownself to 1/8" comp? Try more.....Try less...... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 the Black Powder Cartridge News -2009 Fall - "Some Black Powder Compression Data" article by Bob Woodfill: Caliber - 45-70 Lyman 457124 Constant volume of FFg powder used Compression tested: 0" - 1/8" - 1/4" - 3/8" and 1/2" Best 3 Shot Groups 100yds ... 5 shot groups were tested also, with the same compression values except for Goex (1/4") and Schuetzen (1/2") Goex - 0.62" with 1/8" compression Goex Express - 0.26" with 1/4" compression Schuetzen - 0.61" with 1/4" compression Swiss - 0.56" with 1/2" compression KIK - 0.65" with 0" compression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Okay, I can try different amount of compression. It looks like Swiss with 1/2" compression is good. So, back to the conundrum.... or wierdness... I was planning on testing load where the bullet is set against the lands when loaded. If I seat the bullet so it touches the lands, I can put way more than 70 grains in the shell Now I have to noodle on this a while. I must have quite a bit of freebore, neck, leade ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Now I have to noodle on this a while. I must have quite a bit of freebore, neck, leade ..Virgil, noodle all you want but you are past do loading rounds and taking them to the range TO DETERMINE WHAT YOUR RIFLE LIKES! If you believe continuing this back and forth Q&A on this thread - you are going to derive the GOLDEN RELOAD ... you will be the 1st person in the history of BPCR shooting that has done so among the hundreds of BPCR shooters of which 99.999% are more experienced than you or will be at this juncture. And you have proved this: you have not provided any answers - just more questions So, start spending your time to reload and test them at the range instead of question after question. Then come back with results instead of more questions because you have been provided with sufficient answers for an accurate reload . BTW, how many ballistics and BPCR reference books do you own and have read? If you don't have any, my recommendation is the Paul Matthews series of BPCR books, Rinker's ballistic book and a subscription to "the Black Powder Cartridge News" magazine And what makes you think you have "quite a bit of freebore, neck, leade"? You have an off the rack standard 1:20 RH twist Uberti and don't even have a chamber diagram to compare it to one that has been custom reamed differently. Plus, the ogive of the bullet determines how far it can be seated out and still chamber the round Apparently, you are also not knowledgeable of what 45-70 is when you started with the anemic 63gr and now are complementing 75grs. The caliber designation is a 45 caliber bullet loaded with 70grs of black powder. Use it. It has been the standard since the 1800's with the 500gr government bullet, now known as the 457125. Seventy five grains is worthless unless you plan to shoot 1000yds keeping the bullet in the subsonic velocity longer for more accuracy at that distance GOOD LUCK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 John Boy, thanks for the ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 I got to looking at chamber specs (thanks LG). This is the SAAMI chamber drawing for the 45-70 Govt. cartridge and chamber. I did some measuring, as good as I can, and this rifle, although marked 45-70 on the barrel, has a chamber that is just over 2.8 inches long. Well in excess of the above spec. Now, I bought it when Uberti USA was floundering several years ago. While the bore and groove is okay. The chamber is too long. Why? I went and got 45-110 and 45-120 specs from a different source. Now all I need is one piece of 45-110 brass to confirm or reject my suspicion that my rifle is really chambered in 45-110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Just how did you measure that chamber? From what to where, with what for a tool?.. Your better off doing a chamber cast. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Just how did you measure that chamber? From what to where, with what for a tool?.. Your better off doing a chamber cast ... LG Well, two way I looked at this. Being as baffled as I am, I purchased a Stony Point OAL gauge and you can see the result in the next set of pictures. The first is a Saeco 1881 Postell type bullet pushed deep into the 45-70 shell on a Stoney Point OAL Gauge. The second picture is the result of using the gauge to seat the bullet against the rifling. Then I did the same with the Buff Arms Creedmore bullet. Notice the full 1 inch between the base of the bullet and the case mouth of the 45-70 shell. To measure the chamber length, I lit up the chamber with bore lights and place a length of metal rod (about the diameter of a coat hanger) in the chamber until the end almost touched the rifling. Then I marked the other end. When I measured it with calipers, I got about 2.85? inches. Not precise, but, it ain't no 2.109 inches per the SAAMI specs. If I had a 45-110 shell I would drill and thread it to fit the Stony Point gauge and measure again. Seems a shame to pay $80 for a box of 45-110 ammo just to check this out further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 PLEASE, just do the chamber cast........Remember KISS You measured MORE than the chamber, BTW. Do some research. PM me your powder charge weight. I bet you CAN'T get a .45-90 case in that chamber and close the breech-block. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 PLEASE, just do the chamber cast........Remember KISS You measured MORE than the chamber, BTW. Do some research. PM me your powder charge weight. I bet you CAN'T get a .45-90 case in that chamber and close the breech-block. LG It will be a while before I do the cast. I have to order the cerrosafe. That being said, there is no point in loading any other rounds until I have done this. As for the chamber, I know the bullet tip extends into the bore some amount due to the ogive which differs on the two bullet styles. And, I know with the stony Point tool it is not a chamber measurement, it is a maximun OAL that is shown. That is not the chamber. I added a picture of the chamber so you can see it is one smooth tube right up to the rifling. At the "2 O'Clock" position of the image you will see a curved line in the chamber. That is where the rifling begins. Is there something that should be measurable to show where the 45-70 chamber ends when I do a chamber cast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 You can see the chamber end in your picture. Get a .45-90 case and try it........ LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Will do. Thanks LG. PS, Track Of The Wolf had brass by the each. So I ordered one 45-90case and one 45-100 case. These should arrive in a week by ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Load 20 rnds at the charge weight I sent you. Seat the bullet to JUST cover all grease grooves. Test'em on a black bullseye target. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 here is the sequence of the next batch of cartridges with the suggested increased powder charge. It starts with annealed cases. Given time, I'll shoot these tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I said to seat the bullet to JUST cover the grease grooves. You have covered 1/2 or more of the front driving band. WHY?? You are in effect loading those rounds 'short' and that doesn't do well at all on the target. Get a GOOD set of dial calipers to measure with and get rid of that worthless wood stick...... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I did just cover the grease groove. I guess what I was thinking differed a bit from what you were recommending. Anyway, if I just went a wee bit too deep when setting the compression die, it just takes a little tweaking to change. I can always back up the dies on the next set, a half turn. Good thing I only made 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Just to close the thread with a resolution. After speaking with barrel manufactures and their selected gun smiths and some great help from Track of The Wolf, I have found that while my rifle is marked 45-70 on the barrel, it is chambered in 45-120. Shooting 45-70 ammo through this firearm will never produce a respectable group. So ... I will have it rebarreled sometime this year into 45-70. Then I'll be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I have found that while my rifle is marked 45-70 on the barrel, it is chambered in 45-120Virgil, that being the issue - Uberti owes you a new rifle ... send it back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.