wide lans

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

wich is better?

[Yusta B.]

Please explain what a "lan" is. Do you mean a network ?

[Remo, SASS #17644]

What is a "wich" ?

[Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life]

define "better"...

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Maybe he wants a lanwich.

[Yusta B.]

Do you mean Marlin Micro Groove & Ballard rifling ?

[Remo, SASS #17644]

define "better"...

Maybe it is butter for his lanwich.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Obviously needs a Cauldron

 

Coffinmaker

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Is them the "lans" so many think is in their "barls" with the "groves".

[Big Jake1001]

VRH; I know what you mean, but it's lands as in Lands and Grooves. You said the same thing in another post.

In Black Powder guns (1st Gen Colts) a barrel had very narrow lands and wide grooves to help with fouling. About 1904-08 Colt started putting wider lands in the guns because of smokeless powder. My 2 Colts were mfg in 1900 and are .38 WCF, but still have the narrow lands and wide grooves. Hope this helps ya

 

Jake

[Big Jake1001]

Is them the "lans" so many think is in their "barls" with the "groves".

 

I found out most here don't like the spelling Police, and I know what they mean. It must drive you nuts like me to see that people won't, can't see that barls and groves aren't barrels and grooves. At least he didn't say Witch is better.

 

Jake

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I know most cowboys don't like the spelling police and that's fine. I have found that it greatly depends on who is doing it. When Utah Bob who is revered is doing it nobody says nuthin' as he has a way of doing it with panache aplomb and humor. Even ole Odd News who is not all that much of a favorite character around here gets away clean mostly.

 

But let me try to make a comment on anything and the knives come out. That's ok I been cut up too many times here to even care or feel it anymore. What's amusing to some is not so much to others. Why I dunno. If it's embarrassing it shouldn't be. Just grin and go on. This cowboy wire ain't about spelling, it's about communicating and it behooves all of us to do our best in that regard. The above pokin' fun posts just show that I am not the only one who sometimes finds some things amusing.

 

Still it just always cracks me up when pards think they have groves in their barrels for example. Excuse me for daring to comment. I will crawl back in my hidey hole now.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

lans! What a typo. I'm an IT guy by trade... Yes lands in the barrels right amongst the grooves.

 

Ballard rifling. Better = more accurate results with smokeless or BP in revolvers or rifles.

 

I was looking at some older guns and noticed the differences. That got me looking at my revolvers, and, discovered a bit of variance among the different makes and models. Depth of grooves differed as well. So, whats better?

 

Big Jake, thanks. Others, its okay by me to have fun with spelling errors... my hide is thick enough.

[Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310]

lans! What a typo. I'm an IT guy by trade... Yes lands in the barrels right amongst the grooves.

 

Ballard rifling. Better = more accurate results with smokeless or BP in revolvers or rifles.

 

I was looking at some older guns and noticed the differences. That got me looking at my revolvers, and, discovered a bit of variance among the different makes and models. Depth of grooves differed as well. So, whats better?

 

Big Jake, thanks. Others, its okay by me to have fun with spelling errors... my hide is thick enough.

IT guy.....aah, no wonder no one could understand

[John Boy]

Ballard rifling. Better = more accurate results with smokeless or BP in revolvers or rifles.

Virgil, the guys really gave you a ribbing, didn't they ... anyway:

I had this discussion with Paul Shuttleworth @ CPA when I wanted a 45-70 barrel for black powder reloads. He recommended a Badger barrel - wider lands and deeper grooves for better bullet obturation shooting original gunpowder.

[Al OVERA, SASS#26238 Life]

I found out most here don't like the spelling Police, and I know what they mean. It must drive you nuts like me to see that people won't, can't see that barls and groves aren't barrels and grooves. At least he didn't say Witch is better.

 

Jake

Actually, Big Jake, I thought he was referring to a cameras wide angle lens. Misspelling isn't always as simple to decipher as one might think. MHO

Al

[Hacker, SASS #55963]

I agree with Al Overa, I thought he was talking about camera lens.

 

But it could be lands and grooves in barrel rifling,

wide area networks,

or our camera lens.

 

A little more context would have helped.

 

Thanks for todays puzzle.

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Virgil, the guys really gave you a ribbing, didn't they ... anyway:

I had this discussion with Paul Shuttleworth @ CPA when I wanted a 45-70 barrel for black powder reloads. He recommended a Badger barrel - wider lands and deeper grooves for better bullet obturation shooting original gunpowder.

 

Ah yes, I earned said ribbing. Anyway, did Paul give you a suggested dimension spec on land width and groove depth for the 45-70?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Groove dia .458".

Bore("land").450.

Barrel maker will know the groove to bore width ratio for Ballard type rifling.

For hvy(540gn. class).45 cal. bullets, a 1:18 ROT is common.

Barrel chamber leade is something you will want to talk to your bbl maker about. Also. are you going to shoot paper patch or grease groove type bullets. A PP chamber leade is not good for GG bullets. GG bullet leade does work for PP.

 

LG

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Thanks Lumpy Grits. You ever seen or heard tell of barrel grooves cut deeper than .458?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Seen a couple of modern made bbls at .459?

I've seen some cut to .457.

What are you going to do for fouling control on this "stick" your building?

Shiloh Sharps make their own barrels, they are among the best out there. Both of my .45 cal Shiloh's "slug" at .4578 with the bore at .4495.

These specs work very well for alot of BPCR shooters.

Don't try to fix what ain't broke.....

LG

[John Boy]

Virgil, the Badger barrel on my CPA 44 1/2 is 449 lands - 4584 grooves with a 1:18 twist. Works well with as cast 460 bullets & BP reloads

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

thanks for the scoop on dimensions. I have (as I posted before) a Uberti High Wall with very shallow grooves based on the above specs and it does poorly with black powder. I think it needs a replacement barrel to be used with BP.

 

So, I got curious on dimension and started looking at, and measuring, the different rifles and pistols I have. Found some variation, and it got me to thinking about accuracy and what the correct dimensions ought to be.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

VRH, what does that bbl "slug" out at?

Again, I will ask what do you do for fouling control??

What bullet are you using?

Without telling powder charge weight(due to STUPID forum rules ),give the details of your loading.

Don't blame the barrel just yet

LG

[Utah Bob #35998]

I know most cowboys don't like the spelling police and that's fine. I have found that it greatly depends on who is doing it. When Utah Bob who is revered is doing it nobody says nuthin' as he has a way of doing it with panache aplomb and humor. Even ole Odd News who is not all that much of a favorite character around here gets away clean mostly.

 

But let me try to make a comment on anything and the knives come out. That's ok I been cut up too many times here to even care or feel it anymore. What's amusing to some is not so much to others. Why I dunno. If it's embarrassing it shouldn't be. Just grin and go on. This cowboy wire ain't about spelling, it's about communicating and it behooves all of us to do our best in that regard. The above pokin' fun posts just show that I am not the only one who sometimes finds some things amusing.

 

Still it just always cracks me up when pards think they have groves in their barrels for example. Excuse me for daring to comment. I will crawl back in my hidey hole now.

 

If I misspell something it's intentional.

 

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

Now, what was that crack about pancakes??

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

VRH, what does that bbl "slug" out at?

Again, I will ask what do you do for fouling control??

What bullet are you using?

Without telling powder charge weight(due to STUPID forum rules ),give the details of your loading.

Don't blame the barrel just yet

LG

 

Hi LG,

 

The current barrel bore and groove slugs out to Uberti specs of .450 and .456, and I presume the twist will be 1 in 20" as advertised when I purchased the rifle years ago. The barrel is 32 inches IIRC.

 

With regard to fouling control using Goex 2fg, I had SPG lubed bullets and tried beeswax/crisco lube wads as well. I tried using a blow tube and bullets were SPG lubed.

 

Bullets I tried were 1881 sized to .458 or .459 and SPG lubed. I also tried early big lube bullets and MPS Postell. I recently purchased Buff Arms 510 grain swagged bullets (Postell type) sized to .459 but have not yet used these really nice and costly bullets. The bases look like mirrors.

 

WW shells with Fed 215 primers and a charge that was weighed electronically, dropped down a 24 inch tube and die compressed 1/8 inch. Tried fiber wads also and did not like those one bit.

 

My previous Pedersoli had dimensions of .450 and .458 on the nose and shot 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with Elephant back when I had that rifle. Hence, why I am thinking about a replacement barrel.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

.456" bore is tight. Are you sure of this spec??

Size your bullets to .457 max.

Go to a std primer.

What alloy are your bullets? I have had best luck with DGL lube.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/689293/dgl-bullet-lube-12-oz-tub

Use either a blow tube(4-5 DEEP breaths)or start wiping between shots.

Goex LIKES to be compressed alot. I'm right at .380-.390. It will burn cleaner too.

LG

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Yeah, I am very sure of the specs. Infact you can still see the dimension posted on the Cimarron web site.

 

The alloy is shown as 20:1 and bullets weights have been anywhere from 500gr to 515gr. I used to sort by weight so I have a bunch. Maybe I pick up a Lee sizer and see about squeezing some down to .457 to see how it goes. That would be a bit less expensive than a new barrel.

 

Why do you suggest a standard primer?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Std primers have always worked better for me in loading either .45-70 or .45-90. Target and crono. has proved this.

I also use a coffee filter wad at the bottom of the case, before I put the powder in.

You will need to be sure all the lead is out of that barrel before any more testing.

YES, try some .457 bullets.

LG

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Interesting... did* the coffe filter wad have a hole in it for the flash, or are you deliberately slowing down the ignition?

[John Boy]

Virgil, the purpose of a wad in the primer pocket or in back of the flash hole shooting BPCR reloads is to reduce the brisance of the primer ignition because BP ignition is deflaguration, not an explosion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

 

PS: No hole in the wad

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Thanks John Boy. Have you discerned/measured a noticeable difference in group size or standard deviation with/without such a wad?

[John Boy]

Before I switched to different primers - Yes

Am using CCI BR2 and Federal GM150M LP Match. They have about the lowest brisance I can find

Now I don't use primer wads too often

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thanks John Boy. Have you discerned/measured a noticeable difference in group size or standard deviation with/without such a wad?

 

YES, I have with a mild increase in MV.

No hole on paper wad, BTW. Coffee filter paper leaves no ash at all.

I also use the same wad under the bullet, on top of the fiber wad. This to keep the fiber wad from sticking to the bullet's base.

I too use CCI br2's.

LG

[Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355]

Well, I ordered a sizing die. I guess I will pan lube and resize some 1881s down from .458 to .457 and report back when I get to it.