Hunting with sharps

[Buckshot Ben SASS #44252]

Anyone deer hunt with a sharps? If so, what load (45/70,45/90...etc)? Or is it to big a gun for deer? I would like to get into deer hunting (other game to follow...I live in Maine), and like the idea of a sharps... But want to make sure it would suit the job.

Buckshot Ben

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

A Sharps has taken the largest game animals on the earth.

This link may help.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

Happy hunting,

LG

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

I suspect the occasional bunny as well. One thing for sure you will never be under gunned for anything short of african dangerous game even with the 45/70. Given the trajectory you may fibd it necessary to either get really good at range estimation or keep shots pretty close to wwhat ever range you have zeroed for

[Peddler Parsons SASS # 31281]

Have taken several deer with mine using a 405 hollow point as well as 450 lead bullets, I made a believer out of 4 friends when I took it to deer camp one year and droped a nice 8 point buck at 160+ yards while having lunch in camp.

It made the mistake of walking into the wheat feild when I seen it, others said they would back me up if I missed it;

but the joke was on them, they could not see after I pulled the triger (I was using black powder) it took them by surprise, all I heard use (what the Hell was that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Ol Number4]

B. B.,

 

 

A while back I took my 40-70 Shilo Sharps to frice a couple times. I was lucky and got all the "thin-skinned" Plains game I wanted including an Gemsbok, Waterbuck and Wildbest. All pretty tough animals.

 

I would say any good 45-70 load at around 1150 fps or faster would do the job on anything in the U. S. A. Providing you get within reasonable range.

 

Ol' #4

[Buckshot Ben SASS #44252]

Peddler

Do you use a 45/70? What would be the down side to using larger loads? I imagine the bullet would fly on a straighter path.

Here is a nuts and bolts question. If I were to buy a 45/90 (or larger), it would still be able to shoot smaller ammo wouldn't iit? Like a 45/70?

Ben

[Hashknife Cowboy]

I have an 1874 #3 from Shiloh....45-70. Other than the weight, it is a hunting rifle 1st, mule deer and elk. I'd use it for anything else also, bear, moose, etc. You can e mail me if you want load data...I like it better and anything else I have. dr3498@hotmail.com

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

In choosing a caliber, 45-70 is available over the counter at most good sporting goods stores. Usually in 300gr or 310gr jacketed soft and hollow points.

 

Try and find 45-90 or 45-110 over the counter.

 

The 45-70 cartridge can be loaded as an express rounds with 250 grain bullet all the way up to a standard 540 grain bullets.

 

Once you decide on what game you're after choose a bullet and work up a distance/drop chart. Open sights, vernier sight or optical, once you learn how to use them with your load data chart you should be able to load for what ever game you are after.

 

But remember to take some one with you to back you up. You have one short and some animals can take a very critical hit and still cover a large amount of ground before running out of gas. Learn your game and know the vital spots of each. Only take the shot when you are certain. No snap shots.

 

45-70 on any mid to large north American game will do the job nicely. On small game usually leaves soup part.

 

The only drawback of a Sharps is it's weight. And I would suggest hunting where there is good access with a vehicle for picking up your kill. Bigger gun means bigger game. You don't want to be packing it out on foot.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Peddler

Do you use a 45/70? What would be the down side to using larger loads? I imagine the bullet would fly on a straighter path.

Here is a nuts and bolts question. If I were to buy a 45/90 (or larger), it would still be able to shoot smaller ammo wouldn't iit? Like a 45/70?

Ben

 

Could you shoot '70 in a '90? YES.

Is it a good idea? NO.

LG

[Buckshot Ben SASS #44252]

LG, help me out... Why is it a bad idea?

Ben

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Accuracy and leading

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Long bullet "jump"(5/16")into the rifling pretty much turns your groups into patterns at best.

Clean'n the fouling out of the '90's chamber after shoot'n .70's is a PITA and just not worth it.

Try it, you'll see foryourownself.

LG

[John Boy]

Fact: Shooting short-case ammo can result in decreased accuracy.

The earlier example of firing correctly loaded .45-70 ammo in a .45-90

chambered rifle is not a safety issue and, as noted above, will not damage the

chamber, but expect accuracy to suffer. Since .45-70 brass is approximately

0.300” shorter than the .45-90 chamber, the bullet will bump up to a larger

diameter to fill the chamber over at least 0.300” of its length.

 

As the cartridge fires, internal pressure force the case and bullet diameters to

increase. I.e. the case expands to tightly fit and “grab” the chamber wall and the

bullet “bumps up”. Experiments have shown that this happens almost instantly,

before the bullets moves forward to any extent. As the case body and neck

expand the case shortens slightly and the case lip tends to pull back. At the same

time, frictional forces on the inside of the case from the powder, wad and bullet

tends to lengthen the case. Therefore, the gap between the case lip and the

transition step may or may not widen. A full-length resized case will expand and

“pull back” much more than a “fire-formed” un-resized case.

 

Depending on the gap width and the position of the bullet driving bands and lube

rings in relation to the gap, the gap may fill with lube or lead from the expanded

bullet. Assuming the gap is filled with lead, as the bullet moves forward the lead

will either be smeared back onto the bullet or deposited in the transition step as a

lead ring. If the gap is excessively wide due to a short case, such as firing .45-70

ammo in a .45-90 chamber, and depending on the transition step angle, the

displaced lead may be smeared back to the base edge, forming an irregular

cupped or “finned” base, or left in the chamber has a lead ring, either of which is

certain to degrade accuracy. If the transition step angle is shallow, chamber

leading may not result but base fining is a possibility. If the transition step angle

is sharp (45 degrees is very common) then lead may be stripped off and “trapped”

in the transition step.

 

As noted above, under some conditions, lead rings can be deposited in the

transition step, and would depend to some extent on the relationship of the bullet

driving bands and the gap between the case mouth and the transition step, and the

angle of the transition step. I’ve never experienced it in my rifles, but I don’t

make a habit of shooting short-case cartridges. Also, I would not be surprised to

find some leading and hard powder fouling in front of the case mouth, prior to the

transition step. If the lead or fouling is not cleaned out, subsequent bullets may

smear the lead or fouling forward into the throat, further degrading accuracy.

Therefore, cleaning the chamber after a few rounds may postpone some of the

negative accuracy effects.

http://www.texas-mac.com/Shooting_Short_Case_Cartridges_in_BPCRs_Myths_and_Facts.html

[Big Sarge]

45/70 is legal here in Mississippi for primitive weapons season. It is very popular & I use a sporterized trapdoor. It is a great deer/hog round. As a side note, I used to hunt with a Spencer when I was stationed at Camp Shelby. Shooting the Spencer is akin to shooting a mortar (trajectory). LOL

[Tom Bullweed]

Pick up the writings of BP shooters and humters like Sam Fadala and Mike Venturino. They have individual books, and M Venturino has many articles about the .45-70 as a target and field gun in Handloader and Rifle magazines.

Based on their writing: The 405 bullet is a great mid-choice for field use. The 300- and 350-grain jacketed bullets are often too fast in the Sharps barrels and are made more for the Marlin 1895 and Ruger #3. The 500-grainers might be the ticket for moose or large bear.

All of these bullets will bring down deer. You need to test them in your rifle and see what works best based on precision, accuracy, recoil and powder build-up. Rifle made sequently on a production line will prefer different bullets/velocity combinations. The 45-70 is no different than other rounds in this manner.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

http://csharpsarms.com/testimonials.php

 

and on FB:

 

 

http://www.facebook.com/#!/csharpsarms

 

GG ~

[Noah Cash]

The 45-70 also kills its target by basicly punching a the same diameter hole all the way through the animal with very little to NO expansion or shock value like created by a smaller higher velocity slug. The 30-06 for instance, with a .308 dia bullet kills primarily by shock and tissue damage. The 45-70 punches a .45 cal hole through the animal from stem to stern. It has been known to drive a 500 grain bullet all the way through a bison. Tough and huge critter but the 45-70 will Git-r-done.

 

 

I Highly reccomend Mike Ventureno's book, "Shooting Buffalo Guns of the Old West". Great reading and the 45-70 is a mainstay.

[Buckshot Ben SASS #44252]

So besides the single shot, and weight, are there any other down sides to the sharps... Compared to more traditional hunting rifles?

I imagine BP isn't as powerful as modern smokeless.

Are sharps limited to BP only, or can other ammo be used?

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

The 45-70 is not considered a high velocity round.

 

A full case of real BP will give you about 1370'/sec. (You can up that with a little care) It is very easy to duplicate the BP velocity with smokeless.

 

The advantage is you can use the smokeless rounds to build your sight data chart. Then you can choose whether you want to hunt with smokeless of BP.

----------------

Forgot the point.

 

BP or smokeless if the velocity, bullet weight and shape are the same then the energy at impact will be the same.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1370fps? w/BP?

In my 34" barreled Shiloh Sharps. I crono 1250fps with a case full of 3F Goex use'n a 540gn Paul Jones C'moor bullet.

LG

[EL NEGRO GATO]

Howdy, I hunted with my 45-70 rolling block, carried it all day on the way back to the truck was a small buck about 30 yards from the truck I put the gun over the hood and shot him didn't move a muscle dropped right where he stood, now I have a sharps in 45-70 we'll see what thios year brings

Good luck in your choicing

ENG

[Buckshot Ben SASS #44252]

ammo.... I'm not going to be loading my own anytime soon, so what factory made ammo should I use? Are there restrictions I should be aware of for load size (likely I'll be gettin a 45/70)with a Sharps?

Ben

[Texas Man]

Its not that a Sharps is any better than a modern rifle or not. To Me its the love of shooting an old gun with all the disadvantages and joy of experencing what Our forfathers went thur so many years ago. The know You have one shot and years ago that one shot could mean dinner on the tabke or a empty belly. As a collector and shooter when I have time I think I enjoy shooting the older guns the best.

 

Anyone who likes guns today is missing out on something I have found very rewarding. One thing I know is that wether I have a mordern rifle in my hand sor a flintlock rifle I know I have to do My part and when I do the rewards are great. It would be hard to pick only one gun and caliber for everthing. One of the greatest thrills was the day I was going hunting for whitetail deer and as I was reaching in my safe for my 243 I saw a Kentucky Long Rifle sitting next to the 243 and on implus I decided to use it instead. The long muzzle loader in My hands felt different as did My mine set that day. Looking down at long three foor barrel over an open sight at a buck a hundred yards away and making the proper elevation adjustment and setting the set trigger and touching the trigger followed by a large puff of black smoke and hearing the 50 caliber ball when it hit was a lifetime experence. That was on par with looking down the sights of My 470 nitro express at a 16,000 pound Bull Elephant 30 feet in front of Me with its ears spread as wide as my two car garage and that also was an lifetime experence I shall never for that day or the day I used the Kentucky Long Rifle.

 

As an owner of a number of both Orginal Sharps and reproductions I can tell You as others here know, Once You own and shoot a Sharps You expence something only few ever know. Also other Sharps seen to follow you home as well. Reat the books as said above and enjoy a world few ever get to. Good Hunting My Friends.

 

Your Pard, Texas Man

[Texas Man]

Its not that a Sharps is any better than a modern rifle or not. To Me its the love of shooting an old gun with all the disadvantages and joy of experencing what Our forfathers went thur so many years ago. The know You have one shot and years ago that one shot could mean dinner on the tabke or a empty belly. As a collector and shooter when I have time I think I enjoy shooting the older guns the best.

 

Anyone who likes guns today is missing out on something I have found very rewarding. One thing I know is that wether I have a mordern rifle in my hand sor a flintlock rifle I know I have to do My part and when I do the rewards are great. It would be hard to pick only one gun and caliber for everthing. One of the greatest thrills was the day I was going hunting for whitetail deer and as I was reaching in my safe for my 243 I saw a Kentucky Long Rifle sitting next to the 243 and on implus I decided to use it instead. The long muzzle loader in My hands felt different as did My mine set that day. Looking down at long three foor barrel over an open sight at a buck a hundred yards away and making the proper elevation adjustment and setting the set trigger and touching the trigger followed by a large puff of black smoke and hearing the 50 caliber ball when it hit was a lifetime experence. That was on par with looking down the sights of My 470 nitro express at a 16,000 pound Bull Elephant 30 feet in front of Me with its ears spread as wide as my two car garage and that also was an lifetime experence I shall never for that day or the day I used the Kentucky Long Rifle.

 

As an owner of a number of both Orginal Sharps and reproductions I can tell You as others here know, Once You own and shoot a Sharps You expence something only few ever know. Also other Sharps seen to follow you home as well. Reat the books as said above and enjoy a world few ever get to. Good Hunting My Friends.

 

Your Pard, Texas Man