evil dogooder Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 After the mn state black powder shoot I've been getting this serious urge to shoot the dirty stuff. Possibly even them cap and ball thing's. So first question. Is there a style that is less problematic? I shoot gf if that makes a diff. Im not interested in rugers but clones of one persuasion or the other. Ok before the whole try them all first gets started, i plan on it i was just wondering if there are certain models that are best left as plinkers vs ones that are robust and good to compete with. Which caliber is better? 44 or 36??? Shotguns. We have a stogeor sxs an 87 clone and an 97 is there a better gun to use? Id lpve a hammered sxs but its not in the budget. Rifles. I have a marlin cowboy comp in 38sp only and a rossi 92 357/38 . Id love a henry or 66 but again its not in the budget. Which powder is best? Real bp or subs? Any other things i should consider? Right now im gathering info i wont be jumping on without knowing the facts. Other thing to consider is it better to shoot soot out of c&b or in frontier cartridges? Thanks for the info everybody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Run! Run away as fast as you can! Don't listen to anything Hawk says! The dark side cookies are full of soot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I use Goex 3F for everything Buy it here..... http://www.powderinc.com/ LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Ive had a 51 before but i never fired it. It was a theater prop i just never boght caps or powder for it. I always loved the looks of the 60 armys with the long smooth elegant lines. The lemats are cool too! Dont get me started on remmi's i love em but never have done more the fondle them at te gun shop. An grizz im awful careful around apache.... hes sneaky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang, SASS #53480 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Ive had a 51 before but i never fired it. It was a theater prop i just never boght caps or powder for it. I always loved the looks of the 60 armys with the long smooth elegant lines. The lemats are cool too! Dont get me started on remmi's i love em but never have done more the fondle them at te gun shop. An grizz im awful careful around apache.... hes sneaky! Mr. D. Good'r . . . it might be good to try out a few different cap & ball guns. Some folk just LOVE the feel of the grip on one and can't stand the grips on others. I '58 Remingtons. Bought one to "try out single action shooting cuz it wuz cheap ( gunbroker ) and infuenced by "Pale Rider" . . . and love it when it was in my hand . . . and wuz HOOKED at the first shot. But some folks don't like the grip on '58s, . . but love the grip on Colts. Good shootin' . . . that black sooty stuff . . . and only shoot the "real thing". I get 2f from Powder Inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I started out just like you - thought I wanted to shoot cap and ball. That lasted two matches. Gave those '60 Colts away and bought two Ruger OMV's in .45 Colt. Then I bought two USFA Rodeo's in .45 Colt. Then I bought two Ruger OMV's in .44-40. Thursday I bought a 1875 Remington clone and I'm looking for its mate. All these shoot BP exclusively and I use the real thing, although I did start out with some subs. I also have an 1873 Winchester clone in .44-40 and a Rossi model 92 saddle ring carbine in .45 Colt and three shotguns - a hammered double (my favorite), a model 97, and a hammerless SXS, all in 12 gauge and I'm looking for a SXS in 10 gauge! Now I reload all my rifle, pistol and shotgun ammo and use real BP exclusively. Go for it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Read through Rowdy Yate's Seminars for Black Powder shooters. Brimstone Pistoleros Second page down half way on the right. There are three of them in the black box. You can even email Rowdy should you questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 DO NOT DO IT! STEP AWAY FROM THE LOADING TABLE! LEAVE THE GUN ON THE TABLE! RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN TO THE SMOKELESS! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! That said, I have a reproduction (Uberti) 1858 New Army Remington. The gun has a great balance and "heft" (to paraphrase Boss in Open Range) The 1860 Army as some great lines but I have HEARD that the balance is not the same. I do not know because I have never held one. Some things to consider. I, personally, would not shoot anything but the real black powder. No substitutes for this cowboy. Several reasons for this, but I will not go into that. You will smell like sulphur and have black hands and face and your clothes will smell funny too. The storage of black powder is a little different from smokeless. One of the reasons I went away from it. The boom of the black is softer than the crack of the smokless and is truly fun to shoot. It is a bear to load and if you are on on the clock, you had best have several preloaded cylinders. Loading will cut into your visiting time at the matches. If you shoot at targets in the dark, you will destroy your night vision with the first shot, but then again I don't know many sane folks that shoot at targets in the dark, at least with any hope of hitting them. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Subs or real? Your choice. Real smells better and makes more boom but it can be hard to come by in small quantities. Shoot 58 Remingtons if you have long thumbs. Shoot 51/61 Navys if you have smaller hands. Shoot 1860s if you have larger hands. I'd start with cartridge guns until you get used to the smoke and smell before going to the cap guns. Welcome to the fire! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Percussion revolvers take dedication, patience, accessories, and more patience. People who try them either fall in love immediately or feel like throwing them away.There are many little tricks and techniques specific to C&B pistols that take some time to learn and perfect. Then they are a lot of fun to shoot. Piettas are inexpensive and following Larson Pettifogger's instructions, can be tuned up very nicely. 51 Navys fit my hand better than other models. Frontier cartridge is a less expensive way to ease into BP. Less frustration when using your familiar guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I use FFg GOEX for the 44 (200gr), 45 (250gr), and 12ga (1 1/8 oz shot) ~ max loads ~ max FUN! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Wow seems like a lot more to think about. Thanks for all the info so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Rifle, use the Marlin. Easier to clean. Remove lever and bolt and get after it. Shotgun, use SxS for the same reason, easier to clean. Pistols are another matter. Either way, C&B or cartridge, pistols will take the most time to clean. That's in comparison with rifle and shotgun. Colts you can remove the wedge to remove the barrel. Limits water getting in to action. Cylinders are the same no matter which type ya get. Remingtons, IMO, are better in regards to accuracy. The gap between cylinder and barrel never changes, where as the Colt, the wedge plays a big part in that. When looking, check out the Rogers&Spencers. I have heard their grip has a similar Beasley feel to them. The cheapest way will be FC. Ya got the guns, just start loading with Black. +1 what Utah Bob said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Another thought. Hot water is your friend at clean up time. Of course, hot water turns cold, and water and steel are not friendly. Rust is NOT YOUR FRIEND. Ballistol can help with that, but I always used WD 40. I didn't know about Ballistol at the time. You will also need some lube for the blow holes in the cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Bob Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Oh yea, use the real thing when it comes to powder. A lot easier and, IMO, a lot more forgiving. Some of the subs, 777 comes to mind, are not. I also find cleaning easier with the real stuff too, though some folks will disagree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Another thought. Hot water is your friend at clean up time. Of course, hot water turns cold, and water and steel are not friendly. Rust is NOT YOUR FRIEND. Ballistol can help with that, but I always used WD 40. I didn't know about Ballistol at the time. You will also need some lube for the blow holes in the cylinder. 100% ++++ So many folks make a mountain outta a mole hill in their cleaning regimen and 'secret' cleaners /lubes. Hot water, scrub bore, clean and wipe gun, air blast (it displaces the H2O excellently, and then wipe down with Ballistol. If storing your guns for a long time - 6 months plus, there are other lubes that are better. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I have been shooting CAS for five years now and moved to FC/FCD about a year ago. I wore out a couple of c&b pistols in the 1990's before I ever dreamed that CAS existed. Here is some of what I have learned that may be of worth to you: - FC/FCD is a great way to start. C&B pistols are alot of fun, but the added issue of primer caps, functioning actions and loading can make this un-fun. - Shooting c&b pistols two-handed can be too fast to allow for complete dentonation and is unsafe. - Marlin or Rossi works fine but the Marlin is easier to clean. - I prefer BP-subs (like APP or 777) for cartridges since these powder do nto require bullets with special lube. - I use FFg blackpowder for more shotshells. - I use fiber wads for my shotshells since the plastic wads tend to build up 'mess' in the barrels. It can be removed but can be avoided. - I reload cartrigdes no more than one month before use and shotshells not more than two weeks before use. Excessive heat and humidity during storage can cause burn problems. - Clean your guns and brass as soon as possible. - Get to know your local BP shooters - Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I have been shooting CAS for five years now and moved to FC/FCD about a year ago. I wore out a couple of c&b pistols in the 1990's before I ever dreamed that CAS existed. Here is some of what I have learned that may be of worth to you: - FC/FCD is a great way to start. C&B pistols are alot of fun, but the added issue of primer caps, functioning actions and loading can make this un-fun. - Shooting c&b pistols two-handed can be too fast to allow for complete dentonation and is unsafe. - Marlin or Rossi works fine but the Marlin is easier to clean. - I prefer BP-subs (like APP or 777) for cartridges since these powder do nto require bullets with special lube. - I use FFg blackpowder for more shotshells. - I use fiber wads for my shotshells since the plastic wads tend to build up 'mess' in the barrels. It can be removed but can be avoided. - I reload cartrigdes no more than one month before use and shotshells not more than two weeks before use. Excessive heat and humidity during storage can cause burn problems. - Clean your guns and brass as soon as possible. - Get to know your local BP shooters - Have fun. yup...and... ...to help with burn problems with lube always store the cartridges projectile down. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 2F real black in all my guns, Smoke Wagons, 73, and 66 in .44-40. The rifles are cleaner in the action with this caliber. I also use a TTN in 12 with real black 2F also. I'm getting into C&B too. 51's cause I love the feel of them. I've never had more fun cowboy shooting than when I made the move to the DARKSIDE! Welcome aboard, yer gonna have too much fun! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 - Shooting c&b pistols two-handed can be too fast to allow for complete dentonation and is unsafe. - Marlin or Rossi works fine but the Marlin is easier to clean. - I prefer BP-subs (like APP or 777) for cartridges since these powder do nto require bullets with special lube. - I use FFg blackpowder for more shotshells. - I use fiber wads for my shotshells since the plastic wads tend to build up 'mess' in the barrels. It can be removed but can be avoided. - I reload cartrigdes no more than one month before use and shotshells not more than two weeks before use. Excessive heat and humidity during storage can cause burn problems. - Clean your guns and brass as soon as possible. - Get to know your local BP shooters - Have fun. Ummm for some reason my ammo never makes it older than a week. They alway jump into my guns and make me drive out to my dads farm to shoot. I tried shooting two handed but its just not for me unless im shooting handguns longer than one hundred yards or doing precision work with one. Thanks for the info on the rifles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Ive had a 51 before but i never fired it. It was a theater prop i just never boght caps or powder for it. I always loved the looks of the 60 armys with the long smooth elegant lines. The lemats are cool too! Dont get me started on remmi's i love em but never have done more the fondle them at te gun shop. An grizz im awful careful around apache.... hes sneaky! hehehehehe all Lords of da Soot are sneaky ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Ok, Evil Dogooder, I felt dem eyes of yurn watching me and even stepped in some of yur drool, I do believe ! 1st, think of what you're character would used. My character is a Confederate in hiding, so that's why I shoot Cap & Ball. Can not shoot heathen smokeless in C&B, so do not even try. I would think for you, frontier cartridge would be the best. 2nd. Get the guns you can afford. Shooting "Holy Black" you can only use sxs or lever action. I do not know if the coach gun needs to be hammered or not. I have a Henry 1860 Military Model, which is 44-40 in "Holy Black" and you felt how hot the barrel got. My back up is a 66 in 45 cal. 3rd. If you plan on shooting the "Holy Grail" of CAS which is "End of Trail" anytime, you and you're weapons must be period, as well as you're cloths and you're talk. Having to walk or hobble along with this cane, that is completely out of my reach. 4th. Shoot only real "Holt Black" ! Leave that sub stuff alone ! It does not have the smell, or the crack of the real stuff. My hands get black, you bet. I consider it a job well done ! And I have only one cylinder per pistol. But I have 6 pistols. Now, I can reload c&b cylinders fast because I have worked on it. Talking to friends can wait till the shoot is over. I have enough time to talk, but when I first started I did not. 5th. You can shoot either 44's or 36's or both. Wild Bill used 36 cal and fought the first and last gun fight gun in the street ! PM me if you want to know more as where to get "Holy Black" powder in MN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Which powder is best? Real bp or subs? I prefer BP for reasons others have stated. However, subs like 777 and APP allow you to use smokeless bullets in cartridges as opposed to bullets that need BP compatible lube. Those subs (not Pyrodex and some others) also allow you to load C&B balls without wads or over-the-ball lubes. Lots of great info here at http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html and http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Stay away from the "SUBS" and the real Black is not hard to buy in small quantities as my friend and fellow BP shooter posted. Buy from Jerry at POWDER INC. He will sell you 5,10, 20 or a case of 25 shipped to your door. The people who shoot subs are welcome in the game as there is room for all of us but you miss all the real fun of the real thing. The difference is huge. The subs are nothing but a smokeless powder with a compound added that produces smoke. Some seem to think that is all you need to be a real BP shooter and that is wrong. Real BP produces smoke, Fire, sparks from that barrel and a much louder boom than any sub. You have a much larger chance of rust with the subs with Pyrodex being the worst offender. There have been many good postings about what to use and all for cleaning and for the most part they all will work to some level. Using EEZOX after you have cleaned your gun for long term protection and lubing is by far the best. Cleaning with Ballistol by buying both the liquid and spray. Use the liquid to make Moosemilk for cleaning and the spray for general use. By the way when you are looking at BP prices, the price you see at Jerrys is the final price with all charges included. One final thing is don't believe anyone who tells you that you must run home after a match and clean all your guns or they will rust. "NOT TRUE". I shoot on Saturday and don't clean till Tuesday most of the time. Buy some KIK 2F Later Fairshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverboat Red, SASS #71733 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Evil, I happy to see you're considering coming over to the darkside. You can easily use the guns you have. While I usually shoot my Rugers and an 1866 in .45 C, I also shoot Ubertis and a Marlin in .38. The sxs is easiest to clean but the '87 isn't hard. I use only 2f in everything. I've tried subs and didn't like them. I do use big lube bullets but they're only really useful in the rifle. Pistol barrels are too short to make a difference. The lube is just to keep the fouling soft. Each subsequent shot blows out the fouling from the previous shot. I use Ballistol. It's easy and works for me. Some swear by that Eezox (sp?) stuff. Either is fine. I also don't rush home to clean my guns. If it takes a couple of days before I get to it, no big deal. As your guns get seasoned clean up is faster and easier. I take maybe 15 - 20 minutes. Keep shooting gunfighter! I shot FCGF all last year, it was a BLAST! I do not recommend gunfighter with C/B. Too many times you need a hand to fix the damn gun. I'm happy to help, let me know Riverboat Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Percussion revolvers take dedication, patience, accessories, and more patience. People who try them either fall in love immediately or feel like throwing them away.There are many little tricks and techniques specific to C&B pistols that take some time to learn and perfect. Then they are a lot of fun to shoot. Piettas are inexpensive and following Larson Pettifogger's instructions, can be tuned up very nicely. 51 Navys fit my hand better than other models. Frontier cartridge is a less expensive way to ease into BP. Less frustration when using your familiar guns. There is iron in UB's words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Yeah But! Who would throw away a revolver of any kind. Utah Bob is wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 - Marlin or Rossi works fine ...... but the Marlin is easier to clean. -------------- I agree with the first part of this statement but not the last. The Rossi is a fine rifle for BP or subs. I then take the single bolt out that holds the stock on and remove it. I clean the barrel with a wire brush and patch using soapy water. Simple Green has worked for me. 1 cap full in quart of water. Rinse completely. I dip the receiver in a boiling pan of plain water until the water runs clean. The hot water evaporates almost immediately. I flood the receiver and barrel with WD-40. I don't worry about the forestock at all. I let the rifle sit out in the sun for a little while to let the excess WD-40 run off. I wipe down, run a couple of clean patches and then lube the moving parts with good oil or light grease. Replace stock and single bolt. 5 minutes at the most. About 30 minutes for all 4 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If you're acutally competitive and and want to place as high as possible you need to think of this, if you switch to black powder you'll never have another "clean" stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 If you're acutally competitive and and want to place as high as possible you need to think of this, if you switch to black powder you'll never have another "clean" stage. The only person i compete with is me. I don't care if i come in dead last as long as i improve each match. Its nice to get raw times in the low twenties but im equallt happy with a longer time if its a good run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The only person i compete with is me. I don't care if i come in dead last as long as i improve each match. Its nice to get raw times in the low twenties but im equallt happy with a longer time if its a good run Just to make sure, you know I was joking, right? Can't shoot a "clean" stage with that "dirty" powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Just to make sure, you know I was joking, right? Can't shoot a "clean" stage with that "dirty" powder. Yeah thats how i took it i am still trying to find a style that makes me the happiest. Tried cowboy. That two handed thing just didnt thrill me. Switched to gf my third match and have shot it since all six matches bw interests me butt i haven't accumulated all the gear yet. I like cladsic cowboy but again i dont have the gear as time goes on i pick up a few things here and there. Eventually my goal is to have enough stuff so i can choose between categorys as the mood hits me Gf Bw Cc Josey wales Outlaw Black powder categories would be cool to add in there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 advice on soot shooters Had to read that closely... then your post. First thought you were talkin' 'bout them zoot shooters. evil ooder... me and a buncha of my pards enjoy sittin' out on the front porch... and just takin' pot-shots with our '51's at the fence posts near the cow pasture. Lot of fun. Dam neighbors don't much like it... but hell... you couldn't hit their house with a 30.06 from my place. (Hell... they don't even like us shootin' anvils up in the air.... or plantin' fertilizer bombs, neither. There's some folks you just can't please.) ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 i am still trying to find a style that makes me the happiest. Duelist is coolest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Duelist is coolest. ...yup...ya gotta make a practice lap before ya go gunfighter.... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.