Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just curious and have seen alot around in this heat. I have felt these and the do feel kinda like a nylon not sure what they are technically called. Blue Wolf Cooler Cowboy Shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just curious and have seen alot around in this heat. I have felt these and the do feel kinda like a nylon not sure what they are technically called. Blue Wolf Cooler Cowboy Shirt Just curious - between this thread and the boot thread. Was there an election or did you simply appoint yourself as Costume Correctness Monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Perfectly legal and a great innovation. Just wish they would put pockets on 'em, buttons on the sleeves, and realize that pards ordering big and tall men's sizes are not pencil necked geeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 it is funny but maybe he has a point. I dont own one of these shirts...maybe somebody can read and post the label of what it is made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just curious - between this thread and the boot thread. Was there an election or did you simply appoint yourself as Costume Correctness Monitor? Creeker, No election, I'm just don't want to pay $200+ to go shoot a match and find out I can't without spending more dollars to re-equip myself. Plus, the Ariat Terrian thread, I could see it was very questionable on being legal. But, the Roper Kiltie is all leather and has a heel, I figured it would be legal........boy I was wrong. I don't mean to step on toes, just thought I'd ask. Besides I'm not making the rules just trying to figure them out. Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Brady #24830Life Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That shirt is made of polypropolene, like 'under armour' shirts that wich away moisture. I wear underarmour beneath cotton cowboy shirts and get the same effect; keeps you drier. Hope that helps. If you need help with the rules, just holler here on the wire. Looking at your profile (member since 2000, 1200+ posts, TG), you have had and will have a lot of helpful resources in eventually figuring out the rules and equipment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Just curious and have seen alot around in this heat. I have felt these and the do feel kinda like a nylon not sure what they are technically called. Blue Wolf Cooler Cowboy Shirt Try going with the rule of thumb... If you have to ask if you can use/modify something, then probably you shouldn't rule. As far as your shirt? Some places will allow, some may not. Bring another shirt/boot/hat/pants/whatever to match, just in case the match officials doesn't like your clothing, you can correct the situation. You may get a SDQ or two if you shot a stage or two with illegal clothing or gear. Problem solved. Blastmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuteTheMall Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Are zippers prohibited? Lots of boots have zippers, not to mention trousers, coats, and raingear. If those polypro cowboy cooler shirts had zippers at the collars, and pockets on the back, they would once again be the bicycle jerseys which obviously gave birth to them. Rubber soles on shoes and boots, what constitutes rubber? Vibram? Crepe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Order at least one size larger! Much smaller than other cowboy shirts. I have two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 are you really that bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Are zippers prohibited? Lots of boots have zippers, not to mention trousers, coats, and raingear. If those polypro cowboy cooler shirts had zippers at the collars, and pockets on the back, they would once again be the bicycle jerseys which obviously gave birth to them. Rubber soles on shoes and boots, what constitutes rubber? Vibram? Crepe? Take the high road. Wear all leather boots and stuff without zippers. Can not find all leather boots? Get as close to all leather as you can and pray. Yep, steer clear of the bicycle jerseys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 it is funny but maybe he has a point. I dont own one of these shirts...maybe somebody can read and post the label of what it is made of. The label on mine states that it's made of 100% polyester. Unless there is a fair breeze blowing, these shirts actually make me feel hotter than a cotton shirt. The heat also seems to be amplified if you're in the sun with no breeze. The sleeves have no buttons and thus no way to roll them up. There is also no pocket on the shirt. On the bright side, the shirts feature a long tail and stay tucked into your pants. They are also well made. I wear mine during the cool season and stay warm. Seems weird but that's how they feel to me. CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olen Rugged Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 If you banned those around here there would be a whole bunch o' haf nekid cowhands. Oh, my, I have gone plum blind jus thinkin' 'bout it! Olen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 One of the keys for the shoes/boots have always been the profile of the soles - from the side. So that should help you. The word about nylon should be taken in context - it was referring to shoes/boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 SHB: OUTLAWED • Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments. ( does the "OR" mean only to "Velcro" items??) From Wiktionary" Noun accoutrement (plural accoutrements) 1.The act of accoutering. 2.An article of clothing or equipment, in particular when used as an accessory. 3.(plural only; not used in singular form) apparatus needed for a task or journey. 4.(military, plural only; not used in singular form) Equipment other than weapons and uniform. 5.(plural only; not used in singular form) trappings. 6.An identifying yet superficial characteristic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 If you're shooting at a club that's monitoring the composition of your shirt, you're shooting in the wrong place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Cobb Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I see in the latest SASS Cowboy Chronicle that there is about a quarter page advertisment for the Cooler Cowboy Shirt. I anticipate intervention in the very unlikely event that the challenge to the "legality" of this garment is even addressed by PWB. On another item, it has been suggested that we carry a change of clothing to a match just in case a hat or something is ruled illegal. Horsfeathers, just call in advance and plan accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indian Jack. Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 If you're shooting at a club that's monitoring the composition of your shirt, you're shooting in the wrong place! I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 SHB: OUTLAWED Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments. ( does the "OR" mean only to "Velcro" items??) From Wiktionary" Noun accoutrement (plural accoutrements) 1.The act of accoutering. 2.An article of clothing or equipment, in particular when used as an accessory. 3.(plural only; not used in singular form) apparatus needed for a task or journey. 4.(military, plural only; not used in singular form) Equipment other than weapons and uniform. 5.(plural only; not used in singular form) trappings. 6.An identifying yet superficial characteristic. here is another definition. See #1...... that is what I think of...... an accessory item..... Same as your #2 ac·cou·ter·ment or ac·cou·tre·ment (-ktr-mnt, -tr-) n. 1. An accessory item of equipment or dress. Often used in the plural. 2. Military equipment other than uniforms and weapons. Often used in the plural. 3. accouterments or accoutrements Outward forms of recognition; trappings: cathedral ceilings, heated swimming pools, and other accoutrements signaling great wealth. 4. Archaic The act of accoutering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 NO..you have to wear 100% WOOL shirts and Pants with one-piece longjohnns underneath!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 One of the keys for the shoes/boots have always been the profile of the soles - from the side. So that should help you. The word about nylon should be taken in context - it was referring to shoes/boots. Other than CC and BW how does the sole profile from the side have any bearing on shoes/boots? For all other categories, lugged soles are legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckskin James Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 .... Only outlaws will have nylon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The path we are now going down is dangerous!. If we must spell out such detail, the handbook will not be a book, but a library - best read and studied on a computer. The more you write, the more you will need to write. The more you write, the more contradictions. We have to let leaders use a bit of logic. I won't even say common sense for as my mother used to say, "common sense is not very common, especially among highly educated people." (Most of the dumbest people in the family had PHD's) PaleWolf already clarified that the ROC will not even attempt to go into too specific of detail as it would be impractical, if even possible. We have lot of freedom just as they did in the Old West. But we have to have some logical limits. Where it is practicle to have documented limits is good, but beyond that, logic will be required based on the stated limits. A major question is do we want to look like the old Westerners or not? Asking to wear such shoes/boots when there are already so many comfortable options available indicates to me that the individual is willing to sacrifice. Tis fine to ask for clarification, but when someone that has been in the sport a long time, I get concerned. Either they have a burr under their saddle (pushing the limits) or are dealing with someone with said burr (trying to be too strict.) As to the shoes in question, the sole is one of the prime areas that have changed since the Old West and even B-western. Heavy lugged boots have always been illegal. Tennis shoe type soles have always been illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 are you really that bored. No, I'm not bored. I feel this type of question is no different than "What's The Call". Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hi Blue, Outlawing them sounds a little too like the infamous "thread counting" of other events. Unless the ROC officially bans them, I would not say anything. Regards, Allie Mo PS I agree that this thread is valid, after all, from P. 1 of the SHB: "The truly unique aspect of Cowboy Action Shooting™ is the requirement placed on authentic period or western screen dress. Each participant is required to adopt a shooting alias appropriate to a character or profession of the late 19th century, or a Hollywood western star, and develop a costume accordingly." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I see in the latest SASS Cowboy Chronicle that there is about a quarter page advertisment for the Cooler Cowboy Shirt. I anticipate intervention in the very unlikely event that the challenge to the "legality" of this garment is even addressed by PWB. On another item, it has been suggested that we carry a change of clothing to a match just in case a hat or something is ruled illegal. Horsfeathers, just call in advance and plan accordingly. Hi Ruff, Don't assume that because something is advertized in the Chronicle it is legal for SASS. I remember an ad for suspenders with ammo loops being right under Tex's editorial. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Marauder is correct... the book would be HUGE! All of these things boil down to an attempt to get everyone on the same page... that was the purpose of the RO I and RO II originally... an effort to have the game played the same throughout the wide range of SASS. There is no doubt... that the more specific we get, the more loopholes we create, and the more %#!@*&^ people we get trying to jump through those loopholes. The Old saying... from early in the game: "If it looks Cowboy, it is Cowboy"... had a lot of merit to it.. but it was only as good as the person who was doing the "Looking". Somewhere along the line, a few folks started pushing the limits... Why? I'm not sure.. some thought it was faster, some (like a few on the wire), just wanted to stir the pot. But for what ever reasons, the fact remains that there are MANY arbitrary and subjective things in the Rule books. It doesn't take someone with huge Braininess to find something that can be misinterpreted or set askew. What I would suggest to everyone would be to follow the rules and make an attempt to also follow the intent of the rules for looking "Cowboy". Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The path we are now going down is dangerous!. If we must spell out such detail, the handbook will not be a book, but a library - best read and studied on a computer. The more you write, the more you will need to write. The more you write, the more contradictions. We have to let leaders use a bit of logic. I won't even say common sense for as my mother used to say, "common sense is not very common, especially among highly educated people." (Most of the dumbest people in the family had PHD's) PaleWolf already clarified that the ROC will not even attempt to go into too specific of detail as it would be impractical, if even possible. We have lot of freedom just as they did in the Old West. But we have to have some logical limits. Where it is practicle to have documented limits is good, but beyond that, logic will be required based on the stated limits. A major question is do we want to look like the old Westerners or not? Asking to wear such shoes/boots when there are already so many comfortable options available indicates to me that the individual is willing to sacrifice. Tis fine to ask for clarification, but when someone that has been in the sport a long time, I get concerned. Either they have a burr under their saddle (pushing the limits) or are dealing with someone with said burr (trying to be too strict.) As to the shoes in question, the sole is one of the prime areas that have changed since the Old West and even B-western. Heavy lugged boots have always been illegal. Tennis shoe type soles have always been illegal. +1. There was a book out a few years ago titled "The Death of Common Sense." Perhaps we should do a group buy on the book and make it available from the SASS store. If I had to carry an extra set of clothes to a match because someone might get anal over what I am wearing, I wouldn't go back to that match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Wolf , SASS# 29424L Posted July 11, 2012 Author Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hi Blue, Outlawing them sounds a little too like the infamous "thread counting" of other events. Unless the ROC officially bans them, I would not say anything. Regards, Allie Mo I'm not looking to outlaw them. I understand nylon being outlawed, was referring to holsters, belts, and footwear in the beginning. The rules don't state that and if a MD wanted to they could outlaw them at a shoot. I know far fetched but not out of the realm of possiblities. I don't want a War and Peace size rule book but a little clarification is not that much. The three rule books now repeat most of the same things and could be condensed into one. I remember the pocket rule book that you received in the Chronicle. Now we have three, why? Because, more people were pushing the envelope and a rule was needed. I'm seeing it being done now and eventually it will need to be dealt with. To me clothing, incliding footwear is as important as the shooting sequence. I also, believe that we are getting older, meaning more feet problems (let alone the other problems of aging) will need to be adressed some how. Otherwise, we may be seeeing smaller matches, as we age and can't wear the appropriate footwear. Local matches will not be affected but state and above will. Just something to think about. Blue Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Heavy lugged boots have always been illegal. Tennis shoe type soles have always been illegal. Where in the rules have heavy lugged boots been deemed illegal? A few years ago, there was an attempt to make a rule to do that but it failed by a large vote of the TGs at the Vegas summit due to safety concerns and other issues. A lot of folks wear lugged sole boots, have done so at many shoots including EOT, WR, Regionals, State Championships and have never been questioned since they are legal except for BW and CC. This area is a common misunderstanding on the rules. Heck I even attended an RO class a couple years ago and the RO II black badge instructor believed lugged soles were illegal until asked to point out the rule against them-except for BW and CC. What is a tennis shoe type sole, most real tennis shoes have a pretty flat soles and wouldn't be much different than a lugged sole. I have seen Ariat type boots with similar rubber ribbed soles. See below for an example of a tennis shoe sole: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058WGWXO/ref=asc_df_B0058WGWXO2087279?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=pg-373-86-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395097&creativeASIN=B0058WGWXO Since tennis shoes are illegal, one could sure argue that tennis shoe soles are illegal also, but that is difficult to define particularity since the configuration of tennis shoe soles vary all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm not looking to outlaw them. I understand nylon being outlawed, was referring to holsters, belts, and footwear in the beginning. The rules don't state that and if a MD wanted to they could outlaw them at a shoot. I know far fetched but not out of the realm of possiblities. I don't want a War and Peace size rule book but a little clarification is not that much. The three rule books now repeat most of the same things and could be condensed into one. I remember the pocket rule book that you received in the Chronicle. Now we have three, why? Because, more people were pushing the envelope and a rule was needed. I'm seeing it being done now and eventually it will need to be dealt with. To me clothing, incliding footwear is as important as the shooting sequence. I also, believe that we are getting older, meaning more feet problems (let alone the other problems of aging) will need to be adressed some how. Otherwise, we may be seeeing smaller matches, as we age and can't wear the appropriate footwear. Local matches will not be affected but state and above will. Just something to think about. Blue Wolf Hi Blue, What needs to be dealt with is usually decided by the WB or ROC. They have hesitated to add every clarification that has been stated. I let my conscience be my guide on appropriateness of my own clothing. I've found that you can't legislate taste and there are a wide range of opinions on what good taste is. The last time I told someone (before the match started) they were wearing an illegal item (shirt) at a State Championship match, I was told the MD said it was okay. So, I've decided my duty is to communicate the rules (I just sent an email this week about the footwear decision) and not worry if the MDs don't enforce them. It saddens me to see the MDs allow illegal items at monthly matches and especially annuals. The rules we have are not enforced. It seems rather pointless to add more. Regards, Allie "feeling fatalistic today" Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 +1. There was a book out a few years ago titled "The Death of Common Sense." Perhaps we should do a group buy on the book and make it available from the SASS store. If I had to carry an extra set of clothes to a match because someone might get anal over what I am wearing, I wouldn't go back to that match. I was the one suggesting taking extra cloths to a match... I only suggest that for the folks that want to reallllly push the envelope with potentially questionable SPEEDO (figure of speach) clothing/shoes whatever and hit the MD that didn't have a sense of humor. That was the contents I was thinking of when making that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 It saddens me to see the MDs allow illegal items at monthly matches and especially annuals. The rules we have are not enforced. It seems rather pointless to add more. Regards, Allie "feeling fatalistic today" Mo Match Directors can not be all, know all, and be everywhere to observe and reconize all the potential violations. RO's and TO's and such need to be observant too and bring these issues (if any)to a call, or not. If the penalty is challenged, then it becomes the MD and more so,the grievance committe's call or rule interpetation. There is a proper grievance procedure starting with the RO of that possee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Try going with the rule of thumb... If you have to ask if you can use/modify something, then probably you shouldn't rule. As far as your shirt? Some places will allow, some may not. Bring another shirt/boot/hat/pants/whatever to match, just in case the match officials doesn't like your clothing, you can correct the situation. You may get a SDQ or two if you shot a stage or two with illegal clothing or gear. Problem solved. Blastmaster So in addition to a chrony to test loads, match directors now need to have on site a chemistry kit to determine the shooters shirt material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Where in the rules have heavy lugged boots been deemed illegal? A few years ago, there was an attempt to make a rule to do that but it failed by a large vote of the TGs at the Vegas summit due to safety concerns and other issues. A lot of folks wear lugged sole boots, have done so at many shoots including EOT, WR, Regionals, State Championships and have never been questioned since they are legal except for BW and CC. This area is a common misunderstanding on the rules. Heck I even attended an RO class a couple years ago and the RO II black badge instructor believed lugged soles were illegal until asked to point out the rule against them-except for BW and CC. What is a tennis shoe type sole, most real tennis shoes have a pretty flat soles and wouldn't be much different than a lugged sole. I have seen Ariat type boots with similar rubber ribbed soles. See below for an example of a tennis shoe sole: http://www.amazon.co...ASIN=B0058WGWXO Since tennis shoes are illegal, one could sure argue that tennis shoe soles are illegal also, but that is difficult to define particularity since the configuration of tennis shoe soles vary all over the place. It appears that you arre saying that it doesn't matter if we look cowboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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