The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 This can't be good for us shooters...... http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL2E8HT76620120629 LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Another 278 jobs down the tubes thanks to the Federal Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hope and change at work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rider Rudy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 This is near were i live, they have been on them for years. They were mainly melting down batteries? So were will old batteries go now? Landfills? Thats are Gov.!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Lead is a particularly nasty smelting operation containing arsenic, tellurium and cadmium. I believe the article may have it wrong though....there are more smelters in the US than this one site (at least I remember there to be more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Here in the USA the government or more precisely, politicians are always looking for something they can latch on to to one up the other politicians. Lead happens to be one of those items. They have lowered the acceptable lead levels and expanded the requirements to such a high degree that our manufacturers are closing down and moving to other countries or just ordering from other countries. Example. Lead Level in blood in USA for an adult exposed by being in an industry the uses lead is in 54 on the scale used according to OSHA. How ever around the world the level starts at 70 and goes up. Consider that in India there is no doctor involvement until an adult reaches 100 on the scale. As far as lead smelting goes the USA is not on the top polluter's list and the list starts where 100 to 10000 people of the population are at risk. http://www.worstpolluted.org/projects_reports/display/86 Me personally, I think our government is in so much debt to other countries that this is how they plan to pay them back. Close down our industries and manufacturing and then buying from them at high mark ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 .... Consider that in India there is no doctor involvement until an adult reaches 100 on the scale. .... And there are a billion people there and the population is growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 There is a battery smelter in Frisco Tx that is still going. They have been on them for years also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 There is a battery smelter in Frisco Tx that is still going. They have been on them for years also. Well, you gotta know that the industry has PRIMARY smelters and SECONDARY smelters. The codes mean: PRIMARY - smelts ore from mines (usually from galena mineralization, which is lead sulfide). Produces lots of sulfur dioxide gas, that has to be caught, treated or turned into sulfuric acid. Also has arsenic, antimony, cadmium, zinc, silver and other contaminants that can affect the surrounding area if not captured. SECONDARY - recovers lead from scrap materials, like batteries, construction lead, wheelweights, etc. Usually a much smaller operation than a primary lead smelter. Produces less air pollution, but could be just as "dirty" from particulate (dust) and waste water impact. By Doe Run closing the last primary smelter in the US, it means any lead mines in the US would have to ship ore out of the country to have it smelted into "virgin" lead. And, yes, I believe the article is right when it claims that is the last PRIMARY smelter running in the US. There will probably be several or many SECONDARY smelters still around where the US can reprocess and reclaim secondary lead. So, although this upcoming closure has impact on maybe one or two mining operations, it probably has little impact on the lead supply for shooters, other than adding to the market price due to shipping ore out of country, then reimporting the finished lead and alloying it into bullet lead alloys. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Mountain Buzzard Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Thanks for the info Joe. Now if they want to send me some of that silver contaminant. That would be just fine with me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Did not say they was a primary smelter. RRR ask what would happen to all the old batterys. So was just letting him know there was still smelters around to handle that. Am am sure it will effect the cost of bullet alloy in the long run. Just order 3,000 pounds of 92-6-2. I will be watching the prices and if it starts going up much I may have to take out a loan and order a BIG load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 it surprises me that a secondary smelter would not venture into primary smelting. Is it that hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 it surprises me that a secondary smelter would not venture into primary smelting. Is it that hard? Probably a whole different processing facility, plus you need to have an ore supply (read mining and the necessary geology conditions to have lead ore) plus ever increasing transportation, energy, labor cost. And then throw in EPA ever changing and demanding environmental rules and regulations and the public in generals distaste and resistance for heavy industry. Solve all that and Sure, it can be done. Edit, price of batteries and anything associated with lead-acid batteries is going up (like every automoble, truck, heavy equipment, etc). Korea, India or China will get another piece of the US market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 it surprises me that a secondary smelter would not venture into primary smelting. Is it that hard? Read the info posted above again. Secondary smelters are small, often junk yard type operations. A few employees. Can sometimes skate under the EPA and OSHA and other government radars. Primary smelters have very large footprints, labor forces (200-500 persons), tremendous investments in smelting furnaces, environmental impacts, risk of doing business in a society which does not value producing metals from the ores. And, there are very few lead mines in the US anymore. Not enough profit to dig up the minerals, in the few spots they do exist. Would be harder than trying to turn your local greasy spoon restaurant into a national chain Mac-fast-food company. Sure, it could be done. But not on the bank account that a junk yard would have. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 .... there are very few lead mines in the US anymore. Not enough profit to dig up the minerals, in the few spots they do exist. ... That says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Read the info posted above again. Secondary smelters are small, often junk yard type operations. A few employees. Can sometimes skate under the EPA and OSHA and other government radars. Primary smelters have very large footprints, labor forces (200-500 persons), tremendous investments in smelting furnaces, environmental impacts, risk of doing business in a society which does not value producing metals from the ores. And, there are very few lead mines in the US anymore. Not enough profit to dig up the minerals, in the few spots they do exist. Would be harder than trying to turn your local greasy spoon restaurant into a national chain Mac-fast-food company. Sure, it could be done. But not on the bank account that a junk yard would have. Good luck, GJ The process between primary and secondary is completely different. It's like night and day, so a primary may also be a secondary, but not usually the other way around. Also Joe, almost ANYTHING that emits just HEAT is regulated to some extent or another. As a refractory (read: firebrick) installer we worked in almost anything that used fire as a process. EPA/OSHA has it's fingers in anything like that, even in a junk yard. Nothing goes unnoticed or unregulated these days. BTW copper in the U.S. is all but dead as well, but we all get copper when we need it. Yes, it's made somewhere else because of regulation and labor costs, but if we can't see the pollution, it must not be happening, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So then...if I have this right, the only sources of lead will now be from either secondary smelters or foreign sources. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 USA still has copper and Lead ore deposits. It is just not cost effective to compete with overseas markets. Read into that, much higher energy, labor, public displeasure and regulatory cost constraints that overseas suppliers have less of. Edit, I suspect that scrap batteries, anything make of lead (other metals are already being salvaged and shipped overeseas) will be recycled and sent overseas to be reprocessed and made into lead thingies to be sold back to the USA and world in general. Secondary refineries will become extent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So then...if I have this right, the only sources of lead will now be from either secondary smelters or foreign sources. Is that correct? don't forget the lead bullets they shoot back toward us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yeah, our lead supply will all be from recycled (secondary) or imported (virgin) metal. It's not all that different from where we are today. Because of the increased value of lead and the laws and environmental hazards of trashing lead, it is perhaps the MOST recycled base metal we have (short of, say, high value or highly toxic metals like mercury or gold or platinum). Last numbers I saw said about 90% of lead being processed into products today is recycled lead. So, we buy a little new metal off the Chinese or the Chileans. Sad to see it go, though. Places like Galena, Illinois and Magdelena, NM were built on lead mining. But, it's about 50 years too late to turn it around. The industry told you ALL about this coming problem in the 1970s. Yeah, I was there at the time too. Running a copper smelter. The only one still running in the US that can comply with most of the regulations. Good luck, GJ Edit - If you want to get worried about one metal we use, worry about Tin! We in the US produce no tin. But the rest of the world produces - hardly enough to keep us going. Even with prices over $12 a pound, the world supply is projected to last only about another 30 years. That's one we REALLY need to start conserving and achieving 100% recycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Morningwood Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 So then...if I have this right, the only sources of lead will now be from either secondary smelters or foreign sources. Is that correct? I ordered some lead from China, but the shipment got sent back because they found toys in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Yeah, our lead supply will all be from recycled (secondary) or imported (virgin) metal. It's not all that different from where we are today. Because of the increased value of lead and the laws and environmental hazards of trashing lead, it is perhaps the MOST recycled base metal we have (short of, say, high value or highly toxic metals like mercury or gold or platinum). Last numbers I saw said about 90% of lead being processed into products today is recycled lead. So, we buy a little new metal off the Chinese or the Chileans. Sad to see it go, though. Places like Galena, Illinois and Magdelena, NM were built on lead mining. But, it's about 50 years too late to turn it around. The industry told you ALL about this coming problem in the 1970s. Yeah, I was there at the time too. Running a copper smelter. The only one still running in the US that can comply with most of the regulations. Good luck, GJ Edit - If you want to get worried about one metal we use, worry about Tin! We in the US produce no tin. But the rest of the world produces - hardly enough to keep us going. Even with prices over $12 a pound, the world supply is projected to last only about another 30 years. That's one we REALLY need to start conserving and achieving 100% recycling. Steel, copper, everything is being sent overseas to be recycled. Scrap yards in the US are doing OK, I guess. Manufacturing overseas using the recycle stuff are doing better. Overseas company motto is:::::::::: Your trash is our cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake1001 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I ordered some lead from China, but the shipment got sent back because they found toys in it. Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are. :lol: Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are. :lol: Jake No it is not!!! Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 So then...if I have this right, the only sources of lead will now be from either secondary smelters or foreign sources. Is that correct? We still have depleted uranium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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