Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 I posted this in CAS City, but so far, no responses. Most new gun belts I see have a large keeper for the belt itself. I've put them on the ones I've made. I see them in patterns at The Leather Factory, too. However, looking through "Packing Iron", with one exception, the 19th century gun belts featured there don't. The 20th century buscadaro belts do, but I'm looking at the older ones. Does anybody know if this is a modern fabrication, or did they just get lost with age and use? I decided to leave it off my newest gun belt, and I do find it more comfortable.
Zach Taylor,SASS#14359 Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 I posted this in CAS City, but so far, no responses. Most new gun belts I see have a large keeper for the belt itself. I've put them on the ones I've made. I see them in patterns at The Leather Factory, too. However, looking through "Packing Iron", with one exception, the 19th century gun belts featured there don't. The 20th century buscadaro belts do, but I'm looking at the older ones. Does anybody know if this is a modern fabrication, or did they just get lost with age and use? I decided to leave it off my newest gun belt, and I do find it more comfortable.
Zach Taylor,SASS#14359 Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 I posted this in CAS City, but so far, no responses. Most new gun belts I see have a large keeper for the belt itself. I've put them on the ones I've made. I see them in patterns at The Leather Factory, too. However, looking through "Packing Iron", with one exception, the 19th century gun belts featured there don't. The 20th century buscadaro belts do, but I'm looking at the older ones. Does anybody know if this is a modern fabrication, or did they just get lost with age and use? I decided to leave it off my newest gun belt, and I do find it more comfortable.
Zach Taylor,SASS#14359 Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 If you look at the evolution of gunbelt styles, you will see the old belts without the keeper would crisscross and not lThis is the reason why you don't seeay flatSomethings were done to remedy this but most failed. Roys gunbelt was short and did not meet , lookat Hoppys white trimmed belt and you can see the front crossing, John Waynes and Buck Jones belt had the buckel on the left side of the belt and the hole billet side narrow to fit into the buckel and not twist , these styles really did not work and looked somewhat crude and silly. Eventually somebody came up with the keeper idea and it worked. Both ends of the belt lay even and did not cross.This is the reason why you don't see this style in old pictures, it did'nt exist.Who came up with the idea I could'nt say. I'm sure if people who are knowledgeable , like John Bianchi ,Purdy Gear ,or one of the other seasoned leather workers read this , you'll get the answer.
Marshall John Joseph Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I asked the same question to my leatherworker and he said belts did not have keepers - and referred me to examples in Packing Iron. You can't have that many historical examples with keepers that "fell off". I had him make a belt without keeper, then installed a keeper with a Chicago screw - the screw hidden under the buckle strap. When I want to be "historically correct", I remove the keeper and Chicago screw and the screw hole can not be seen under the buckle strap. Hope this helps. MJJ
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 A more in depth answer might?? be found over on the Leather boards http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,57.0.html here. Some of these guys are really into the history and research side of leather. The sag actually looks perfect for the old timy 'draped' look and allowed a bit of drop on the common high ride holsters that seemed prevalent in those days. No better vision of the old two gun cowboy can be had than a pair of narrow belts crossed in this manner while wearing cap n ball Colts in Slim Jim holsters. Probably wouldnt bring home the trophys in our modern matches while competing against the rigid modern stuff but it does go back to a time that little resembles a SASS match.
Trailrider #896 Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I always include the belt body keeper, in addition to the tongue keeper that keeps the tongue from flopping around. The belt keeper is left loose so it can be slid back and forth, depending on how much of the tongue end of the belt overlaps the buckle end. The belt body keeper prevents the belt ends from scissoring, which can cause the tongue to twist, and eventually start wearing out the tongue. If the customer doesn't like the belt keeper, he/she can always slip it off the belt. (You have to also be sure the keeper doesn't accidentally slip off when the belt isn't being worn, of course.) Form follows function, so whether folks orginally had them, but lost them, or they didn't exist isn't necessarily proof of their existance or not. Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your Pard,
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