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Not sure the LEO's did right on this....


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Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? No I can't consent to a search of my vehicle. Speak clearly so that my video phone can get the entire conversation. Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? Do you have a warrant? Why am I being arrested?

 

My bet is that out of 40 detained/ arrested and cuffed the city is going to have a small, but growing fiscal deficit problem satisfying the class action civil rights violations for this fiasco.

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First is my answer to Bad Hand. When a LEO puts cuffs on you that does not mean you are under arrest.

Every LEO in the country has the right to cuff any person who may be a suspect in a crime. It's for detention until that officer has a better chance to bring things under control. It's for his and your protection.

Have you ever tried to detain 5 people who don't want to be?

Those officers did not know any of the people who were detained and many of them could have been shot or killed.

I was not there to pass judgement but I can say that I was put into bad situations like this before and the only way to control a large group is by cuffing, the use of dogs or other forms like wrist cuffs ties.

I will be the first to say with out knowing the true facts that it seems like a long time period with the amount of police officers shown.

It seems as if they could have used a team effort to search each vehicle and then allow that person to leave and then go on to the next one.

For you people who are saying terrible things like Nazi, and so on, I have a suggestion for you. Find a department that offers a ride along program and spend some time with those cops to see what really goes on every day for them. You may have a new out look when it's over.

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Well, since I was the first to use the word "gestapo" in my post, and it seems to have offended some folks..I would like to offer an apology..Although in my own defense I would like to point out the phrase I used was "gestapo-esque"..And I honestly wouldn't know what else to call this sort of thing..Those of us who grew up in the 60's and had Fathers in WWII (Mine was a POW) remember well what the nazis,and gestapo stood for..Among which was strong-arm, totalitarian style police tactics, with no regard for anyone's civil rights..This is exactly the sort of tactics they would have employed in such a situation, although as UB pointed out, they would have probably have let none of the "detainees" go! I would also like to point out that nazi Germany was the first country to have a national gun registration, although that's not really relevant to this thread..

 

A friend of mine I used to work with who went on to become a LEO once told me "Everyone's guilty of something!" To which I replied was not a good attitude for someone who's supposed to be a blind public servant to have..I've been posting on the wire for a number of years now, and anyone who hasn't put me on their "ignore" list knows my general position has always been VERY pro-law enforcement..Our LEO's have a tough, dangerous job to do, and I for one deeply appreciate those who are willing to do it!

 

I also have to agree that the news media seems obsessed with doing anything they can to make the LEO's look bad, same with gun owners..The report stated "A suspect armed with several high-powered handguns" which led me to assume (never a good thing) that he was the perp..Maybe he was just some poor guy on his way to a local range..I would like to see where this story goes, and how it ends up..If it turns out that the real bad guy was never caught during this incident, then a lot of innocent people were subjected to a lot of needless harrassment..And the LEO's made themselves look bad.

 

Oh, and by the way..I always thought the hippies referred to LEO's as "facists" (Sometimes followed with a reference to a certain barnyard animal)..

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Wonderen if in the future instead of those exploding dye packs in the money bag that the last set of bills have a tracking device.

Some large banks are already using this technology. The bank security calls the PD dispatch who relays the location to the officer on the street. It works real well if you have a good vehicle description. If you have 30 cars at that intersection, it becomes more complicated.

 

What do you do? Just let the Bank Robber go and say we'll catch him another day? That tracking device has a short life span and will be destroyed as soon as it's located. Suppose he kills your wife or kid during his next Bank Robbery. Do you think inconveniencing some motorists is too much now? Maybe they should "try" to follow the pack of cars until it thins out and then get in a high speed chase with the suspect? Not a good option either.

 

The police are often given damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. This sounds like one of them.

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I saw a few weeks ago that Aurora is one of the top ten safest cities in the country. You must be mistaken. :rolleyes::lol: :lol:

 

I think I just busted a stitch laughing at this post, Bob :lol: I didn't read that report. I'll have to go look it up.

 

I agree with what Mary said....some areas of Aurora are really nice and some make the hair on the back of my neck stand up just by getting close to them. But I'll add that the same is true of Washington, DC. You just have to know which parts to avoid or speed through without stopping ;)

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The police are often given damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. This sounds like one of them.

 

 

Sounds like medicine. Treat a terminal patient and you are accused of milking the family for money. Don't treat the patient, and you're accused of letting them die. :rolleyes: I'm sure other professions can chime in as well with their crosses to bear.

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I think I just busted a stitch laughing at this post, Bob :lol: I didn't read that report. I'll have to go look it up.

 

I agree with what Mary said....some areas of Aurora are really nice and some make the hair on the back of my neck stand up just by getting close to them. But I'll add that the same is true of Washington, DC. You just have to know which parts to avoid or speed through without stopping ;)

 

Same way with Albuquerque..The first time we spent a night there we didn't know our way around, and wound up in a not-so-nice section of town..I slept with my 1911 under my pillow that night!

 

But after spending some time there and learning where to go and where to stay away from, I came to really like it there..I guess every town's like that..

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<SNIP>

A friend of mine I used to work with who went on to become a LEO once told me "Everyone's guilty of something!" To which I replied was not a good attitude for someone who's supposed to be a blind public servant to have..

 

<SNIP>

Oh, and by the way..I always thought the hippies referred to LEO's as "facists" (Sometimes followed with a reference to a certain barnyard animal)..

at the risk of putting too fine a point on this idea; it's always important to remember that what happened during this era was absolutely justified by 'the law'. The law was used and modified to permit what was previously only a means to an end. Until it became a human travesty, ethnic cleansing and world war an entire continent of sane, rational, civilized people turned a blind eye to the crimes against humanity.

 

Not saying that stopping 40 people rises to that level of atrocity, but I am saying and I think Doc is rightly saying that it is only a thin line that becomes continually moved and justified until what we have is irretrivably unrecognizable from what we wanted. It is our duty to demand our rights and to never allow them to be sullied by the hand of the well-meaning despot regardless of the level of offense.

 

Sure, it's uncomfortable at times. But, that's the price we pay for what we have a right to be most proud of passing forward.

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Unfortunately, the courts are allowing this thin line to move away from citizens having rights and the cops having more and more power to control. The courts appear to be permitting the "ends justifies the means" type argument as a stretching mechanism. IE police state!

 

This is the court permitted path of allowing laws to be stretched. Another path already seen is to have new law passed that define the line farther from citizens having rights. Think about the "patriot act".

 

I have used the term gestapo and police state and I maintain that those words MUST be used to draw attention to LEO actions that have the appearance. The logo on the side of many local police vehicles says "protect and serve" NOT "handcuff and detain". I will not apologize for this usage.

 

Someone suggested that we take a ride along. Personally , I would really like to. BUT I don't believe that a LEO with a ride along would be vectored into harms way. I just dont' believe that it would happen. I could wrong.

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Unfortunately, the courts are allowing this thin line to move away from citizens having rights and the cops having more and more power to control. The courts appear to be permitting the "ends justifies the means" type argument as a stretching mechanism. IE police state!

 

This is the court permitted path of allowing laws to be stretched. Another path already seen is to have new law passed that define the line farther from citizens having rights. Think about the "patriot act".

 

I have used the term gestapo and police state and I maintain that those words MUST be used to draw attention to LEO actions that have the appearance. The logo on the side of many local police vehicles says "protect and serve" NOT "handcuff and detain". I will not apologize for this usage.

 

Someone suggested that we take a ride along. Personally , I would really like to. BUT I don't believe that a LEO with a ride along would be vectored into harms way. I just dont' believe that it would happen. I could wrong.

 

You never know when you're going to be in harms way. There aren't many calls of man-with-a-gun or rampaging terrorists during a shift. Simple traffic stops turn deadly. You never know. But I think your innate distrust of the police will probably prevent you from ever doing a ride along or attending a citizen's academy.

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Not saying that stopping 40 people rises to that level of atrocity, but I am saying and I think Doc is rightly saying that it is only a thin line that becomes continually moved and justified until what we have is irretrivably unrecognizable from what we wanted. It is our duty to demand our rights and to never allow them to be sullied by the hand of the well-meaning despot regardless of the level of offense.

I have not been able to find a follow up on this.

If it had been the Gestapo involved I think they would have lined everyone up and just shot them, end of problem. But I get the point Doc.

I have been concerned for awhile now about the erosion of our Constitutional rights...in the name of protecting us from terrorism OR "public safety", it doesn't matter. Our rights under the constitution can die from a thousand cuts if we let it happen.

I am well aware of who and what the police are involved with, they are not the average upstanding somewhat(when was the last time you drove over the speed limit?) law abiding citizen. I get that too.

Did they do right in this situation? I don't think so, but it will take a judge or two to make that determination.

Do the ends justify the means? It's a slippery slope, that one.

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First is my answer to Bad Hand. When a LEO puts cuffs on you that does not mean you are under arrest.

Every LEO in the country has the right to cuff any person who may be a suspect in a crime. It's for detention until that officer has a better chance to bring things under control. It's for his and your protection.

Have you ever tried to detain 5 people who don't want to be?

Those officers did not know any of the people who were detained and many of them could have been shot or killed.

I was not there to pass judgement but I can say that I was put into bad situations like this before and the only way to control a large group is by cuffing, the use of dogs or other forms like wrist cuffs ties.

I will be the first to say with out knowing the true facts that it seems like a long time period with the amount of police officers shown.

It seems as if they could have used a team effort to search each vehicle and then allow that person to leave and then go on to the next one.

For you people who are saying terrible things like Nazi, and so on, I have a suggestion for you. Find a department that offers a ride along program and spend some time with those cops to see what really goes on every day for them. You may have a new out look when it's over.

 

 

In answer to your question, yes I have tried to detain several people at once, I'm very familiar with investigative detention. Before you have investigative detention, you must have probable cause to believe the subject was involved in a crime. An anonymous phone call, without a subject's description, or even a vehicle description doesn't even rise to the level of reasonable suspicion. How about the women? They were looking for a male? The question is was the search consensual, or did the officers point guns at the drivers, tell them to get out of their vehicles and state "we're going to search your car"?

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at the risk of putting too fine a point on this idea; it's always important to remember that what happened during this era was absolutely justified by 'the law'. The law was used and modified to permit what was previously only a means to an end. Until it became a human travesty, ethnic cleansing and world war an entire continent of sane, rational, civilized people turned a blind eye to the crimes against humanity.

 

Not saying that stopping 40 people rises to that level of atrocity, but I am saying and I think Doc is rightly saying that it is only a thin line that becomes continually moved and justified until what we have is irretrivably unrecognizable from what we wanted. It is our duty to demand our rights and to never allow them to be sullied by the hand of the well-meaning despot regardless of the level of offense.

 

Sure, it's uncomfortable at times. But, that's the price we pay for what we have a right to be most proud of passing forward.

 

quote]

 

Thanks, Brother King..You stated far better, and with far less words the point I wanted to make.

 

Something else to remember is the LEO's only enforce the laws on the books, that's their job..The best thing to do is see to it lawmakers and civic leaders who condone trampling on civil rights get voted out of office..And since I'm starting to get into political territory here I'll leave it at that.

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You never know when you're going to be in harms way. There aren't many calls of man-with-a-gun or rampaging terrorists during a shift. Simple traffic stops turn deadly. You never know. But I think your innate distrust of the police will probably prevent you from ever doing a ride along or attending a citizen's academy.

 

UB, Thanks for pointing out the flamingly obvious. As for whether I have an innate distrust of police. I have an innate distrust of ANYBODY in a position to ABUSE my rights. That include cops stretching the law to suit their momentary needs. Clear? If you don't distrust those who abuse your rights I feels sorry for you as you may well be another dupe. Those who don't stand in objection to the breaking of our rights support by default the breaking of our rights. There are people out there who believe that the cops can do no wrong. They are in fact wrong themselves. Cops are like everyone else, them make mistakes. But It is only by calling attention to the situations that show systemic problems and abuses that we the citizens of this nation can get the problems fixed. Theoretically.

 

In the case of the OP, the aurora cops appear to have stretched the law to the point of breaking it and then stand behind "the ends justifies the means" manure.

 

 

On a different view of the problem, what do people who saw this article about this police action think about the prospect of going into aurora. Will that have an effect upon the revenues of shopping venues?

 

 

Another report of the same incident;

From KKTV CBS in Colorado Springs

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They could go with the PC from a tracking device that the money was in that area. Everyone becomes a suspect or the suspect get-a-way driver. Right to detain a suspect with PC and hold for 20 hours (KCPD INVESTIGATION REGULATION) till info clears that individual. I am not for certain, since we used the 20 hour hold rule, but I believe the Supreme Court ruling was 40 hours allowed to detain a suspect without charges, then had to release. That was why KCPD stayed on the safe side and went with 20 hours. Only on weekends did that one hurt, all other times 20 hours was usually sufficient. Will be interresting on a mass detain how it comes out.

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Some large banks are already using this technology. The bank security calls the PD dispatch who relays the location to the officer on the street. It works real well if you have a good vehicle description. If you have 30 cars at that intersection, it becomes more complicated.

 

What do you do? Just let the Bank Robber go and say we'll catch him another day? That tracking device has a short life span and will be destroyed as soon as it's located. Suppose he kills your wife or kid during his next Bank Robbery. Do you think inconveniencing some motorists is too much now? Maybe they should "try" to follow the pack of cars until it thins out and then get in a high speed chase with the suspect? Not a good option either.

 

The police are often given damned if you do and damned if you don't situations. This sounds like one of them.

 

Ummm, how about "obey the law you swore to uphold". You know, that pesky Constitution, with its pesky Bill of Rights.

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Ummm, how about "obey the law you swore to uphold". You know, that pesky Constitution, with its pesky Bill of Rights.

You didn't answer the question. Obey the law you swore to uphold is a generic answer. It's sort of like saying, "I'd do my best". If you had a armed bank robber stopped at an intersection along with 30 other cars, what would you do? If you let him go, the chances of catching him later is slim to none.

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They could go with the PC from a tracking device that the money was in that area. Everyone becomes a suspect or the suspect get-a-way driver. Right to detain a suspect with PC and hold for 20 hours (KCPD INVESTIGATION REGULATION) till info clears that individual. I am not for certain, since we used the 20 hour hold rule, but I believe the Supreme Court ruling was 40 hours allowed to detain a suspect without charges, then had to release. That was why KCPD stayed on the safe side and went with 20 hours. Only on weekends did that one hurt, all other times 20 hours was usually sufficient. Will be interresting on a mass detain how it comes out.

 

I don't believe that you could claim that the aurora police had pc for ALL 40 or so at that location.

That includes cars with kids inside. Not that bad guys don't use kids as shields and disguise.

Cops MUST recognize that MOST of the people there are INNOCENT and are NOT the suspect.

ALSO why is it that a pix of the suspect at the bank could not have been present at the intersection.

 

If the cops were using a technology item that provides location, then why did they not pursue to another less congested location?

They have to realize they will sued. Tracking could use a helicopter for example. And what of lower tech more traditional police work such as pix from cameras at the bank. Are we the public giving up our rights so that cops can be lazy and not do real cop work?

Yes, I have just put on my flame proof suit. But don't bother flaming at me. I distrust cops who endanger my rights! I see that as one possibilty of what happened in this case. And if you don't distrust cops who endanger your rights, I wonder why.

 

 

 

I wonder if SCOTUS have ruled in this type of issue that the police must do a reasonable job.

PC spread to 40 at an intersection on questionable info should not permit 20 hours or 40 hours or even 2 hours of detention.

 

If I had been cuffed at that intersection my FIRST call after freedom would be to find a lawyer with the intention of suing aurora police and city of aurora.

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"You never know when you're going to be in harms way. There aren't many calls of man-with-a-gun or rampaging terrorists during a shift. Simple traffic stops turn deadly. You never know."

Bob, I get this too. It's a dangerous job. But rights are rights, you have them, I have them, criminals have them. We all have them, until they are gone. Why not detain and handcuff all traffic stops? After all, its for the drivers and LEO's safety isn't it? Crazy, but I actually heard a uniformed officer talking with someone wearing a suit in a coffee shop about that option years ago. He seemed serious, the suit not so.

I get that it's not a game, there are no do overs on either side. I would rather err on the side of rights, but that is spoken by someone not out there in the field, and I know it.

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About a month ago here in the Sacramento, CA area, the police (multiple agencies) closed down the Yolo Causeway in both directions during rush hour- and kept it closed for SIX AND A HALF HOURS. They were looking for a miscreant who tallied up three strikes inside of about 15 minutes, and continued to rack up serious felonies for the rest of the day, until the police shot him dead. This affected hundreds of vehicles, for the better part of the work day. Crazy. When they shot him, it was 10 or 12 miles from the causeway, he's carjacked several vehicles, including a tractor, pistol-whipped a guy, shot at several people, including LEOs, committed robbery, and set fire to a building. Give that guy a "Real People" T-shirt.

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If you had a armed bank robber stopped at an intersection along with 30 other cars, what would you do? If you let him go, the chances of catching him later is slim to none.

 

 

If they were using an electronic technology device to provide location then track to another location and he can still be caught.

Neither article indicated why they were at that intersection exactly. In fact the 2 articles don't agree on the number of cars stopped kktv says 15 while MailOnline says 25. They don't appear to agree on the day it happened; kktv says 3 june, MailOnline says 6 june.

 

 

Yet another version of the event this time from Denver's NBC affiliate is dated 2 june. When did it happen?

NBC Denver 9

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About a month ago here in the Sacramento, CA area, the police (multiple agencies) closed down the Yolo Causeway in both directions during rush hour- and kept it closed for SIX AND A HALF HOURS. They were looking for a miscreant who tallied up three strikes inside of about 15 minutes, and continued to rack up serious felonies for the rest of the day, until the police shot him dead. This affected hundreds of vehicles, for the better part of the work day. Crazy. When they shot him, it was 10 or 12 miles from the causeway, he's carjacked several vehicles, including a tractor, pistol-whipped a guy, shot at several people, including LEOs, committed robbery, and set fire to a building. Give that guy a "Real People" T-shirt.

 

I remember that SGT. Quincannon

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First is my answer to Bad Hand. When a LEO puts cuffs on you that does not mean you are under arrest.

Every LEO in the country has the right to cuff any person who may be a suspect in a crime. It's for detention until that officer has a better chance to bring things under control. It's for his and your protection.

 

This is in error (to say the least), and most certainly if you are relating it in any way to this incident.

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I don't believe that you could claim that the aurora police had pc for ALL 40 or so at that location.

That includes cars with kids inside. Not that bad guys don't use kids as shields and disguise.

Cops MUST recognize that MOST of the people there are INNOCENT and are NOT the suspect.

ALSO why is it that a pix of the suspect at the bank could not have been present at the intersection.

 

If the cops were using a technology item that provides location, then why did they not pursue to another less congested location?

They have to realize they will sued. Tracking could use a helicopter for example. And what of lower tech more traditional police work such as pix from cameras at the bank.

 

All very valid questions. I don't have any more details other than what the media reported. Lots of what if's and speculation. I wouldn't be so quick to comdem based on the media's very limited version of what happened. They have a vested interest in stirring the pot to sell more advertising.

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"You never know when you're going to be in harms way. There aren't many calls of man-with-a-gun or rampaging terrorists during a shift. Simple traffic stops turn deadly. You never know."

Bob, I get this too. It's a dangerous job. But rights are rights, you have them, I have them, criminals have them. We all have them, until they are gone. Why not detain and handcuff all traffic stops? After all, its for the drivers and LEO's safety isn't it? Crazy, but I actually heard a uniformed officer talking with someone wearing a suit in a coffee shop about that option years ago. He seemed serious, the suit not so.

I get that it's not a game, there are no do overs on either side. I would rather err on the side of rights, but that is spoken by someone not out there in the field, and I know it.

 

 

The one thing to say about rights is that they normally never come back once they are nullified, stolen, breeched etc.

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All very valid questions. I don't have any more details other than what the media reported. Lots of what if's and speculation. I wouldn't be so quick to comdem based on the media's very limited version of what happened. They have a vested interest in stirring the pot to sell more advertising.

 

So BB, does this pass the scratch and sniff test with you? Do think this incident even with partial info as we will always have, preserved the rights of those handcuffed that were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. And in this case MOST if not ALL but ONE were INNOCENT and COMPLETELY UNINVOLVED. But why were they all handcuffed and left sitting in the elements without shelter from bullets, shade nor water for two hours. Sounds a bit like the keystone cops. I have enough information to be outraged. Like I said earlier if I had been there handcuffed my first action after gaining my freedom would be to call an attorney and start legal actions against Aurora city and police.

 

 

Another report.

 

if the contents of this last article are true. we have keystone cops.

They didn't have a vehicle description, nor suspects race.

 

What is most terrifying is that once handcuffed they were asked if their cars could be searched? Consent to search their cars was granted while handcuffed. Sounds like that answer was obtained while under duress. Gee I wonder what would happen if they asked while pointing a gun at you. I doubt it would stand up in court. So another amendment violated.

 

I wonder what trumped up charge would have been made if they refused to have their cars searched. Probably obstruction.

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UB, Thanks for pointing out the flamingly obvious. As for whether I have an innate distrust of police. I have an innate distrust of ANYBODY in a position to ABUSE my rights. That include cops stretching the law to suit their momentary needs. Clear? If you don't distrust those who abuse your rights I feels sorry for you as you may well be another dupe. Those who don't stand in objection to the breaking of our rights support by default the breaking of our rights. There are people out there who believe that the cops can do no wrong. They are in fact wrong themselves. Cops are like everyone else, them make mistakes. But It is only by calling attention to the situations that show systemic problems and abuses that we the citizens of this nation can get the problems fixed. Theoretically.

 

In the case of the OP, the aurora cops appear to have stretched the law to the point of breaking it and then stand behind "the ends justifies the means" manure.

 

 

On a different view of the problem, what do people who saw this article about this police action think about the prospect of going into aurora. Will that have an effect upon the revenues of shopping venues?

 

 

Another report of the same incident;

From KKTV CBS in Colorado Springs

 

Based on your past posts on pretty much most any thread involving law enforcement I have concluded that you probably do not trust the police, like the police, or have any appreciation or understanding of the job they do. Just the impression I get from your posts. I could be wrong. I could be right. You said you would not be sent in harms way on a ride along, so I was simply pointing out the flamingly obvious fact that you could very well end up in harms way without being intentionally sent there. I'm glad you understand that.

 

And I am not a dupe generally, although I have been duped on occasion. Mostly by late night infomercials....and a few political candidates. I have done a pretty fair job of upholding peoples' rights most of my adult life. But I don't distrust everyone who could potentially abuse my rights because of the position they are in. Too big a pool there. That would put me in a position of distrusting pretty much everybody but my own family. I am vigilant about rights abuse, but distrusting everybody because of their potential to do bad wouldn't be how I care to live.

I don't believe I have supported the actions of the Aurora PD here. Still not enough info. But if they're wrong they need to be held accountable.

That's one of the differences between us and the real Gestapo.

And I never support any abuse of authority. Never have, never will.

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UB, My message about LEO issues has always been the same one. I don't like it when LEOS do things that endanger my rights.

I don't like it when they do things that are risking our lives.

I don't like when they act like they are superior to non-leos.

Also I don't like it when they do things that threaten our tranquility (we are NOT in iraq nor afghanistan).

 

You have not been ready my posts to understand my real message. You only take it skin to be bashing.

I hope this post straightens you out about my real message.

 

LEOs do a difficult job and are the most visible form of government that we all see on a daily basis (unless you are glued to a tv and see many obamalongadingdong reelection ads.). Being the most visible part of a government makes LEOs the first batch of government types that have access to the pockets where my rights are kept. I just don't want to see them become kleptomaniacs and steal my rights.

 

I personally have had no issues with LEOs.

I have received a few traffic violations that I deserved quite frankly.

 

I find that some of the so law dawgs here on the web appear to believe that all LEO behaviour is correct.

That cannot be a realistic view of life. Near colorado springs there are/have been at least 3 different LEOs indicted and either being prosecuted or about to be prosecuted for various child molestation, exploitation or drug charges. So No they are perfect. Their conduct suffers from the same flaw that all other parts of society from; that being that they are human and make mistakes. Problem is their mistakes are seen more clearly then others and may in the case of the OP of this thread as a threat to our rights! There is a good reason why people concerned with rights have a problem with so called police states.

 

 

I hope this post has cleared up my position on LEOS.

I do not hold any grudge. I have never been cuffed. Never had any problems.

I do fear that they could damaging my rights and the presence of errors seen in the press make it obvious to me that it could happen.

I am also concerned why some others are not as concerned.

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I find that some of the so law dawgs here on the web appear to believe that all LEO behaviour is correct.

I might add to this: And/or can or should be justified.

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About a month ago here in the Sacramento, CA area, the police (multiple agencies) closed down the Yolo Causeway in both directions during rush hour- and kept it closed for SIX AND A HALF HOURS. They were looking for a miscreant who tallied up three strikes inside of about 15 minutes, and continued to rack up serious felonies for the rest of the day, until the police shot him dead. This affected hundreds of vehicles, for the better part of the work day. Crazy. When they shot him, it was 10 or 12 miles from the causeway, he's carjacked several vehicles, including a tractor, pistol-whipped a guy, shot at several people, including LEOs, committed robbery, and set fire to a building. Give that guy a "Real People" T-shirt.

I think this is a good example of cops causing a lot of inconvenience for the general public, and in this case I say it's completely justified and probably saved lives. There's a big difference between causing traffic jams and detours, and between handcuffing and detaining everybody in an area because you're hoping you might find a bsd guy. I used to be stationed at Beale and I remember hearing bad things about Sacto cops, but I'm definitely behind them on this one! Thanks for posting, I think this does an excellent job of pointing out the difference between a public inconvenience and a violation of rights.

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Maybe some folks have legitimate questions on LE procedure and tactics, but anymore it seems these threads just get started to stir things up. The process is the same every time, the trolls show up first, then the constitutional scholars, followed by the paranoid "big brother is watching" crowd, and finally the insults and Gestapo labels start flying. Free advice is fine, but understanding that procedure will vary by department, and that the laws are different in every state, so a national forum is probably not the best arena for advice. How about we quit stirring the hornets nest for a while, maybe start picking on Firefighters! :lol:

 

BSD

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Maybe some folks have legitimate questions on LE procedure and tactics, but anymore it seems these threads just get started to stir things up. The process is the same every time, the trolls show up first, then the constitutional scholars, followed by the paranoid "big brother is watching" crowd, and finally the insults and Gestapo labels start flying. Free advice is fine, but understanding that procedure will vary by department, and that the laws are different in every state, so a national forum is probably not the best arena for advice. How about we quit stirring the hornets nest for a while, maybe start picking on Firefighters! :lol:

 

BSD

 

Why pick on anyone? - my thread was started about an incident that involved a certain police department and the way THEY handled it - than folks start piling on LEO's in general....oh well, nature of the internet I reckon.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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