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Jeff Quinn's take on shotgun home defense loads


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Soooo... in other words... they get knocked down.

 

No. They get moved...

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No. They get moved...

 

You know, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but now I just have to say that I'm shocked that someone would double down on stupid like that. Especially when they're trying to "correct" such stand-up pardners as 12 Mile Reb with their pseudo-intellectual babble. :wacko:

 

Do yourself a favor (and to help me avoid wasting time mocking you), please look up the definition of "knocked" before you reply again. (Hint - it has something to do with movement).

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On the other hand, several years ago we had a murder suicide in our little town. A feller drove his pickup into a church parking lot, shot his wife in the head with a 20 gauge, she started screaming so he had to shoot her again. This is from driver's side to passenger side distance. Then he put the muzzle in his mouth and shot himself. All of the shot was contained inside his head, note exited. This is NOT what I would have expected. I was on the city council at the time and heard this directly from the Chief of Police.

 

Strange things can happen.

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Our tests were done at 12-14 feet with insulation between the panels as would normally be found in motels and apartments. Standard 7 1/2 and 8 shot performed as I stated. I've been retired 13 years and the testing took place at least 25 years ago so I don't have pictures. Even with the disparity in our test results I don't believe buckshot would be any safer. In fact, I know it won't.

 

Sir, I am not disputing your test's findings, nor your test protocol. Nor am I suggesting you need to provide photographic evidence of your findings. I believe you! I merely wanted to point out the different results obtained under a different test protocol. Both protocols are valid, IMHO.

 

Fiberglass insulation can soak up a LOT of energy. Hollow sheetrock walls don't!

 

And you are quite right, buckshot is NOT "safer" than birdshot; but under the conditions of our test, birdshot was not shown to be appreciably "safer" than buckshot inside a house or apartment. Our conclusion was that both bird and buck can be deadly even after passing through a standard interior partition, and as such we stayed with buckshot. Buckshot was our standard patrol shotgun load because it could be used at greater effective ranges than birdshot (we were/are a rural county and many of our OIS's have been outdoors).

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You know, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but now I just have to say that I'm shocked that someone would double down on stupid like that. Especially when they're trying to "correct" such stand-up pardners as 12 Mile Reb with their pseudo-intellectual babble. :wacko:

 

Do yourself a favor (and to help me avoid wasting time mocking you), please look up the definition of "knocked" before you reply again. (Hint - it has something to do with movement).

 

Before you imply that I am stupid, pick up a Physics book and then let me know how you feel.

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You are both correct....sort of.

 

Did you ever see what a 125 pound lady in a pair of high heels can do to a linoleum floor? I she rocks on one of those heels, 125 pounds is spread over about 1/3 sq inch. She can make a significant dent in linoleum, a pine board or your chest (if you're kinky like that).

 

The physics is straight forward. But, the guy holding the shotgun does not get knocked down because the reaction energy is spread over a fairly large area. In the case of the perp, the 1 1/8 oz of shot is spread over about 9 or 10 square inches and then absorbed by the rest of his mass.

 

He won't get thrown down the street by the blast, but he may fall over very quickly. Some people call that being knocked down.

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Sir, I am not disputing your test's findings, nor your test protocol. Nor am I suggesting you need to provide photographic evidence of your findings. I believe you! I merely wanted to point out the different results obtained under a different test protocol. Both protocols are valid, IMHO.

 

Fiberglass insulation can soak up a LOT of energy. Hollow sheetrock walls don't!

 

And you are quite right, buckshot is NOT "safer" than birdshot; but under the conditions of our test, birdshot was not shown to be appreciably "safer" than buckshot inside a house or apartment. Our conclusion was that both bird and buck can be deadly even after passing through a standard interior partition, and as such we stayed with buckshot. Buckshot was our standard patrol shotgun load because it could be used at greater effective ranges than birdshot (we were/are a rural county and many of our OIS's have been outdoors).

Doc, I should have put a smiley face at the end of my statement. You and I don't have a problem. :)

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A hole in the galvanized steel roof from #7 1/8 - 8 shot last weekend.

It'll dang sure mess you up. :blink:

 

last year I was spotting for a shooter inside a building....he was making up a shotgun target and only had to fire one shot and when he turned his gun up to open the action and remove the fired and UNFIRED shell and still had his finger in the trigger guard. The shotgun went off and put a 3" x 3" hole in the corrugated metal roof. Brought my son in to see what could happen if you are not careful. Opened his eyes.

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QDG,

 

All shot falls in the two categoeies of Bird and Buck

 

Bird shot is nominally any size from #2's thru #12's,(also there is a smaller size, known as dust).

 

Buck shot progresses thusly: #1, B, BB, BBB, T, TT, F, FF, #4 Buck, #3 Buck, #2 Buck, #1 Buck, 0 Buck, 00 Buck and 000 Buck.

 

Some sources state that #1 thru FF are still Bird shot, while others lump them in with Buck shot. Take it whichever way you wish.

 

RBK

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have found that If the perp isn't intimidated by the rack of my Winny 1200, given a heart attack or turned to toast by the 1st two BP blanks (their boom and muzzle flash does wonders @ 10'), then the 3 dbl ot to follow spoil his day. The BP blanks serve well as a potentially non-lethal warning and a very persuasive deterent.

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

have found that If the perp isn't intimidated by the rack of my Winny 1200, given a heart attack or turned to toast by the 1st two BP blanks (their boom and muzzle flash does wonders @ 10'), then the 3 dbl ot to follow spoil his day. The BP blanks serve well as a potentially non-lethal warning and a very persuasive deterent.

 

 

So, blanks are non lethal? May want to think again on that one.

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This must be related to the super deer and elk phenomenon. Used to be you could kill one of those with a .30-30 or .30-40 Krag. Heck, Great Grandpa killed deer with a .32-20. But the deer and elk today require at least a .300 magnum, with some elk requiring the .375 caliber and beyond to reliably take down.

 

It has to do with global warming and fluoride in the water system.

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