EOT

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Blastmaster,

 

Professional boxing ain't like the golden gloves. There is no tourney, but rather promoters putting the matches together. That is why we sometimes don't get the matchuP that we would like to see.

 

But lemme ask, back in the Old West, how many cowboys did it take to have a gunfight?

[Blastmaster]

Blastmaster,

 

Professional boxing ain't like the golden gloves. There is no tourney, but rather promoters putting the matches together. That is why we sometimes don't get the matchuP that we would like to see.

 

But lemme ask, back in the Old West, how many cowboys did it take to have a gunfight?

 

 

So Promoter A schedules two prize fighters and advertises it as World Championship.... Then Promoter B schedules two different prize fighters and advertises as World Championship.. Then Promoter C does the same thing... Then we have multiple World Champs? Got it.

 

Only need one, the person with the gun and shooting from an ambuse situation. Mostly Fictional Old West gunfight as you are referring too was rather an oddity and a Hollywood drama. Was there ever a gunfight? Yep. But Old west gunfights is rather off this thread.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

But lemme ask, back in the Old West, how many cowboys did it take to have a gunfight?

There you have it. It really is just that simple isn't it? Everything else is just obfuscating the obvious: The current category system is such a mess that we competitors can't even count on a sanctioned category match at the World Championships promoted by the headquarters organization.

 

With a tip-o-the-hat to Bud and others for their Hopium, it is not too early to be concerned and want to proactively prevent the slow motion train wreck that this is becoming. Continued use of duct tape on this jalopy is beginning to negatively affect the ride. While there are many concerned who love this game is the time to do something, not wait until they have become so disillusioned as to stop participating.

[Blackwater 53393]

Blastmaster,

 

Professional boxing ain't like the golden gloves. There is no tourney, but rather promoters putting the matches together. That is why we sometimes don't get the matchuP that we would like to see.

 

But lemme ask, back in the Old West, how many cowboys did it take to have a gunfight?

 

 

So Promoter A schedules two prize fighters and advertises it as World Championship.... Then Promoter B schedules two different prize fighters and advertises as World Championship.. Then Promoter C does the same thing... Then we have multiple World Champs? Got it.

 

Only need one, the person with the gun and shooting from an ambuse situation. Mostly Fictional Old West gunfight as you are referring too was rather an oddity and a Hollywood drama. Was there ever a gunfight? Yep. But Old west gunfights is rather off this thread.

 

Blastmaster,

You've made Branchwater's point for him. S.A.S.S. is the promoter in this instance. There is no tournament to eliminate contestants in professional boxing. The promoter can give any fighter a shot at the championship if he chooses. A sanctioning body may establish a pecking order. There ARE other Cowboy Action organisations. The S.A.S.S. World Championship is more like the WWE King of the Ring, where a number of contestants are put in the ring together and the last one standing wins. There is no qualifying process or elimination involved, so IF all the other contestants choose to jump out of the ring and you're the only one remaining, you are the champ!!

And if the backshootin' bushwhacker IS the winner then only ONE shooter will make a category and therefore should be awarded the category championship!

[Blastmaster]

Blastmaster,

You've made Branchwater's point for him. S.A.S.S. is the promoter in this instance. There ARE other Cowboy Action organisations.

And if the backshootin' bushwhacker IS the winner then only ONE shooter will make a category and therefore should be awarded the category championship!

 

Oh, I got it, and already knew it, SASS is a promoter.... I was just funning him that there could be numerous other promoters giving out World Championship titles for the same darn thing.

 

The award for the backshootin' bushwacker is,,,,, he gets to live another day. Did I tell you about the Cherry Picking backshootin' bushwacker shooter that jumped catagories to win a Championsip??:? LOL.

 

 

Carry on..

[Cypress Sun]

Is there another sport out there where an actual whole wide World Championship title was given to an entry of just one person? Is this fairly common with other sporting events? Just one or two people competiting for the title of World.....champion?

 

Just asking.

 

It may not be a sport nor the World Championship but the U.S. Presidential race has only two viable competitors.

[Buffalo Brady #24830Life]

Brother King, agree with your comments and will add another: how many fewer competitors, read that as customers, are coming to EOT as a result of some of this stuff? I always wanted to vend there, but frankly the closer state matches are getting darn near the number of people that care closer and at less cost to me vs. EOT.

[Madd Mike #8595]

..sums it up right there.

 

-Nate

 

moot point

what category in sass, would that be

.....................................where only lead-bud enter??????

geeeese lol

[Madd Mike #8595]

It may not be a sport nor the World Championship but the U.S. Presidential race has only two viable competitors.

 

only after

millions of dollars

millions of air miles

and the process of elimination

 

that brung em there

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

moot point

what category in sass, would that be

.....................................where only lead-bud enter??????

geeeese lol

who knows if the current level of discontent continues? they're having trouble giving tickets away now! are you blind to it? are you reading the posts? are you listening to the footsteps of those who aren't even posting? or just sanctimoniously dismissing the roar of the crowd as 'simple-minded fools'?

 

geeeeeseee yourownself... you're looking the wrong way on the train tracks!

[Misty Moonshine]

Please see my post pinned on the wire regarding Ladies Categories at EOT.

 

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189326

 

Thanks,

MM

[Old Scatterbrain]

It may not be a sport nor the World Championship but the U.S. Presidential race has only two viable competitors.

Meh.

 

Point taken, though.

[Madd Mike #8595]

who knows if the current level of discontent continues? they're having trouble giving tickets away now! are you blind to it? are you reading the posts? are you listening to the footsteps of those who aren't even posting? or just sanctimoniously dismissing the roar of the crowd as 'simple-minded fools'?

 

geeeeeseee yourownself... you're looking the wrong way on the train tracks!

 

I read the posts'

I understand the world economy (huge problems with disposable incomes to spend)

my income is down so low, that I hardly leave the house any more.....

 

I see that SASS has probably peeked

.....so have the categories.....

so have the shooter numbers, stepping up and shooting

..........just how do we fix it ???????????

 

by demanding no cut backs,

none what so ever

nope-notta,

no way hose-A ???????

step back hose-B

 

I have not the answers

 

I am darn near deaf, and I can see

I wish well for both SASS and its members

 

I only hope things can get worked out for the overall good of sass

 

just think

in a couple of weeks

we will be fightin, all over agin on the wire

...... about scoring .......

 

what is the fix for categoires,,,,,,,that is the real question

different sized shoots,

different level of shoots,

will have different ideals.... ;)

 

tally-hoe

[Jack Houston # 35508]

TOTAL TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Irish Red OToole, #48939]

Please see my post pinned on the wire regarding Ladies Categories at EOT.

 

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=189326

 

Thanks,

MM

Misty,

Do you have King Solomon on speed dial? Great decision! Hope this eases some of these hurt feelings I've been seeing.

[Harvey Mushman]

I read the posts'

I understand the world economy (huge problems with disposable incomes to spend)

my income is down so low, that I hardly leave the house any more.....

 

I see that SASS has probably peeked

.....so have the categories.....

so have the shooter numbers, stepping up and shooting

..........just how do we fix it ???????????

 

by demanding no cut backs,

none what so ever

nope-notta,

no way hose-A ???????

step back hose-B

 

I have not the answers

 

I am darn near deaf, and I can see

I wish well for both SASS and its members

 

I only hope things can get worked out for the overall good of sass

 

just think

in a couple of weeks

we will be fightin, all over agin on the wire

...... about scoring .......

 

what is the fix for categoires,,,,,,,that is the real question

different sized shoots,

different level of shoots,

will have different ideals.... ;)

 

tally-hoe

 

 

Mike,

 

I have really liked what you have written on the spirit of the game and integrity, and I think it applies here, also.

 

SASS offers a set of legal categories in its rulebook, without any limitations. This implies a contract with members and competitors. Those categories MUST be honored at a state, national or world championship level. End of story, period - this is Sanctioning Body 101 stuff (I head a national one in another historic sport).

 

If there are too many categories, you honor them UNTIL YOU FIX IT. And under NO circumstances would you change it in the middle of the competition year after EOT entry forms and processes are already underway.

 

As BK said, just look at the impact of this poorly implemented mid year decison. Here is personal (me) example for you:

I joined SASS two+ years ago with a 3 year membership. I'd been planning a life membership when that expired later this year. I'd also planned to make EOT an annual event down the line. BOTH those decisions are undone and deferred, based on what I've seen on this issue. I will continue SASS membership and shoots, but my Life membership and EOT decisions will be based on where we go from here.. Time will tell.

 

Regards,

Harvey

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

I don't buy the whole 'the economy is down' argument. Look at WR and CAC numbers. They are not down. Why not? Because they are great SHOOTER matches and fun events.

 

I expect EOT will be this year, as well, but it will take time to convince the masses. And rightly so after past experience and some of the current decisions.

 

They should make it an event that would draw big numbers even if it wasn't the world championship.

[Blackwater 53393]

I don't buy the whole 'the economy is down' argument. Look at WR and CAC numbers. They are not down. Why not? Because they are great SHOOTER matches and fun events.

 

I expect EOT will be this year, as well, but it will take time to convince the masses. And rightly so after past experience and some of the current decisions.

 

They should make it an event that would draw big numbers even if it wasn't the world championship.

 

 

THERE YA' GO!!

[Madd Mike #8595]

Mike,

 

I have really liked what you have written on the spirit of the game and integrity, and I think it applies here, also.

 

SASS offers a set of legal categories in its rulebook, without any limitations. This implies a contract with members and competitors. Those categories MUST be honored at a state, national or world championship level. End of story, period - this is Sanctioning Body 101 stuff (I head a national one in another historic sport).

 

If there are too many categories, you honor them UNTIL YOU FIX IT. And under NO circumstances would you change it in the middle of the competition year after EOT entry forms and processes are already underway.

 

As BK said, just look at the impact of this poorly implemented mid year decison. Here is personal (me) example for you:

I joined SASS two+ years ago with a 3 year membership. I'd been planning a life membership when that expired later this year. I'd also planned to make EOT an annual event down the line. BOTH those decisions are undone and deferred, based on what I've seen on this issue. I will continue SASS membership and shoots, but my Life membership and EOT decisions will be based on where we go from here.. Time will tell.

 

Regards,

Harvey

 

SASS has been around for 30+ years, things change for the good, and some changes are not so gud

When I started SASS, folks everywhere agreed and stated "SASS folks are a notch above, the folks we have seen in ANY other hobby that we have done".

I think the members have changed, and you help me understand that even more with your contract statement above.

years ago, the majority of members had the mind set more along the lines of "if the rules dont say ya can, then you cant do it)

of late: I get the feeling that the members feel that, "if the rules dont say ya can'T, then why not give it a try"

huge difference

the first group, were real happy with their hobby, and what the wild bunch had started, and molded along the way

they would have (hardly) NEVER, looked at their membership as a contract, nore did the wild bunch with regards to providing categories

where do the members go from here

the word "contract" spells

lawyers, and court cases, when we feel a contract has been broken by one side or the other

 

I think some of the things that some of the members blame the wild bunch

for

R problems, made bigger than they really are

just like a majority of our silly "reality tv shows" these days (for ratings)

 

ad in the "drama"... "i wants" or "we are intitled too's" and we are were we R now

 

the whole category concept got out of hand, countless tg meetings, lots of wire talk has not come up with a solution

a match director tried to make a change, the people spoke, changes were made for the ladies

right-wrong-or-indifferent,

I am not saying that I like the way this whole thing played out

What I am saying, is I fear the contract ideal

SASS seems to be just like anyother hobby these days

Spirit of the Game, Ride for the Brand, mind sets

are dieing as fast as our old western tv-movie heros

change that does not excite this cowboy

sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

 

I feel that match directors should be able to base their categories, upon the

size of their shoot (total# of shooters shooting)

the level of their shoot (monthly, state, nationials, or world)

let us all, C how this whole sha-bang plays out in the future

[Buffalo Brady #24830Life]

Well, I do not see the SASS rulebook as a contract, but when I send an entry fee in for showing my dog in a dog show, buying a concert ticket, or going to a SASS match, that entry form says what will be delivered to me as fun, opportunity to compete, whatever and is a contract. Don't take my money fee for entry then change the rules 4 months later. While I am sure that when SASS started, it was a nice hobby of the WB and others. Well, it now is a business, whether salaries and profits are taken or not. You go national with a business, you get customers that are happy and some that are not. They buy or they don't buy. In the last 14 years since I started shooting, it has been a really fun time and I have not seen SASS shooters, members of SASS or not, change that much. There were guys stretching the rules to compete 14 years ago, but the sport is still the friendliest shooting sport. Plus, we get to dress up, laugh, love and tell stories every weekend! There are tons more matches in the country and all are run by people that do their best. Some get the customer service and entertainment thing, some do not. Us ---- customers ---- go where we have the fun we want; we do not go back to some matches that do not meet our entertainment expectations. WB and the EOT ----- time will tell, folks will go or not go, and fun will be had or not. And cowboy shooting will go on every weekend in most areas with folks like us having our fun and helping out.

[Guest Cactus Cris SASS#2790]

Gonna add my 2 cents in here & prob will get flamed-WC When I started this back in 91 there were few catagories. You either shot one handed or two handed with either BP or smokeyless, male & female. There were 2 kids cat. I never did understand all the reason to add what ya wore to make a separate class. Every one still shoots with one hand, two hands or gun in each hand, with BP or smokeyless. That is 6 catagories when you add in the ladies, plus 2 for young'ns. Don't see the need for age based, clothing based,or any other based catagory other than kids. Now the cat is out of the bag it will be real hard to put it back in.

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

Cactus Chris, you are SOOOOO Right !!! There are 4 categories in Wild Bunch: Mens Traditional, Mens Modern, Ladies Traditional and Ladies Modern.

 

We intend to keep it that way !!! You can't be everything to everybody.

[Max Montana, SASS #23907]

I for one will be attending EOT. I will have a great time. I will buy mucho items, spend my money and never give a thought to those of you whom decide to stay home. Frankly, it will make parking easier.

 

I'm thankful that EOT is not restricted to two entrants. The boxing example was totally out of context.

 

Lastly, I'm not sure whom to blame for not recognizing some categories, the ones offering the match or the ones stayng home and not wanting to shoot the category. Seems to me that with 500 shooters and two people want a category, it is the people that have spoken. Hold them responsible not the Wild Bunch.

 

After 15 years, the only thing I find disappointing is just how much some of you can complain. Over the years I've noticed that the majority of the complainers aren't the ones at the matches.

 

It's not a perfect world, but the Wild Bunch has done more than any of you complainers to make Cowboy Action Shooting what it is today.

 

If you really want to count for something then send in your application and be a part of a great World Championship.

 

You don't like what I think, then by all means take the cowardly way out and send me hate mail or take the honorable way and tell me face to face on the Founders Ranch Range! I'll be there from the Saturday Wild Bunch Warm-up till the last award is given!

 

I look forward to seeing you there!

[Rio Brazos Kid]

Max,

I certainly like your attitude. You are to be commended.

 

There is one failing fault with your statement though, and I'm dead serious about it.

 

Sass has too many categories, and that's understood. HOWEVER, at a World Championship, all official categories should be honored, regardless of numbers. Sass has failed here. Like it or don't. They have failed to do the right thing in all instances. That's a fact.

 

RBK

[Harvey Mushman]

Max,

I certainly like your attitude. You are to be commended.

 

There is one failing fault with your statement though, and I'm dead serious about it.

 

Sass has too many categories, and that's understood. HOWEVER, at a World Championship, all official categories should be honored, regardless of numbers. Sass has failed here. Like it or don't. They have failed to do the right thing in all instances. That's a fact.

 

RBK

 

 

RBK,

 

You have hit the one point that is common among us "complainers" in italics above. Actually, this is sanctioning body 101 and the WB needs to hear the feedback.

 

I don't think that I agree with your "failed.....in all instances" point, but maybe just don't understand what you meant.

 

MIke,

I agree with you on the original spirit and intent of the game and I wish I had discovered it back then!! I tend to gravitate to matches with more of an origianl flavor (like Thunder Valley), shoot BP categories when I can, and I try to write stages with that intent, as well as

 

I agree that we have way too many categories, but that was not the point rearding EOT category limitations in the midstream of a year with entry forms already printed. It may not be a "contract", but it is certainly implied to the public when we solicit membership and shoot applications.

 

I too hope we balance the objectives in our sport with the fantasy - I am convinced it can be done.

 

Cheers,

Harvey

[Constable Nelson #11784]

My view on this may be a bit different to some.. and maybe a bit unpopular.. but here goes..

 

For years we have had a constant argument between those who wanted new/more categories introduced.. and those who didn't...

 

For better or worse we now have many categories that did not exist "way back when".. New categories that we were assured would be viable.. and thus should exist.

 

So far, so good.

 

We now find that for the World Championships some of these categories are attracting less than 5 entries... and SASS is imposing a limitation - seen BTW many times previously at other CAS events - apparently to prevent the situation where a single competitor (or one of less than 5) is going to be a "World Champion"

 

Opinions on that vary.. and rightly so...

 

What I think significant however is something I haven't yet seen raised.

 

The talk of a "contract" requiring SASS to honour all categories got me thinking...

 

Just where are "all" these folks who demanded the threatened categories be introduced? If they were as keen to shoot in these categories as they indicated when fighting to have them added.. then why are there so few nominations in those categories for EOT?

 

Did they mislead when they told "us" how many folks would flock to "Category X"? Or what?

 

Aren't THEY equally responsible for this (very awkward) situation?

[Rattler]

I for one will be attending EOT. I will have a great time. I will buy mucho items, spend my money and never give a thought to those of you whom decide to stay home. Frankly, it will make parking easier.

 

I'm thankful that EOT is not restricted to two entrants. The boxing example was totally out of context.

 

Lastly, I'm not sure whom to blame for not recognizing some categories, the ones offering the match or the ones stayng home and not wanting to shoot the category. Seems to me that with 500 shooters and two people want a category, it is the people that have spoken. Hold them responsible not the Wild Bunch.

 

After 15 years, the only thing I find disappointing is just how much some of you can complain. Over the years I've noticed that the majority of the complainers aren't the ones at the matches.

 

It's not a perfect world, but the Wild Bunch has done more than any of you complainers to make Cowboy Action Shooting what it is today.

 

If you really want to count for something then send in your application and be a part of a great World Championship.

 

You don't like what I think, then by all means take the cowardly way out and send me hate mail or take the honorable way and tell me face to face on the Founders Ranch Range! I'll be there from the Saturday Wild Bunch Warm-up till the last award is given!

 

I look forward to seeing you there!

 

I wish that I had written this, but since I didn't all I can do is repost this hoping that everyone will read this again and again and again and..............

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Dear Max, There is a big difference between complaining and working to correct what was clearly a decision made in haste and in error. As evidence I would point out what should be obvious: the wrong was corrected after it was shown and reasoned to be an error.

 

It is perhaps more comfortable to sit and never question the wisdom of founding and tradition, but surely that is not only NOT the Cowboy Way. It's not the American way either.

 

I look forward to seeing you once again at EOT, wish you the best shoot of your SASS career and anticipate a lively exchange whenever you're feeling most spunky. It's not the past history of SASS that inspires my concern, but the future that must always be in our thoughts today.

 

Brother King

I'll be in the big tent starting Sunday before WB.

[Ramblin' Rose SASS #2811]

Constable, I agree with your question. I think this is something the Wild Bunch needs to review. Where are the shooters and why are they not attending EOT? There are many variables that may affect this, price of match, location, altitude, attitude of club putting on the match, economy, etc. Some matches do not have a problem with category numbers and sell out fast others very clearly state on their applications what is required for a category to be recognized. Is there a late fee or a discount for early payment. Anyway I think I am rambling on, but I think SASS needs to closely look at what motivates a shooter to come to EOT and what makes a shooter decide not to attend. I do believe their decision to recognize 3 in a category for the Ladies is a step in the right direction to attract competitors though it may have come a bit late for 2012.

 

See you soon, glad we are shooting together.

 

RR