Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Will a 1:32 twist 24" barrel in 45 Colt (35g 2F Goex - 250gr projectile) be a good'un - need to replace a barrel...eventually. Bulged a barrel - still shoots fairly accurate for CAS, but looking at it just turns a knot in me belly... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Don't replace it. Just load up some good long range loads out to 3 or 400 yards and let go. On a pistol caliber rifle, shooting long range will stretch the barrel a bit and pull the bulge out, ya will never know it was there. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Don't replace it. Just load up some good long range loads out to 3 or 400 yards and let go. On a pistol caliber rifle, shooting long range will stretch the barrel a bit and pull the bulge out, ya will never know it was there. :lol: ...well, not quite the answer I be lookin' for... I know that for muzzleloaders a like 1:66 (.50cal) is good for patched ball and 1:26 is good for heavy conicals... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I reckon I'd just find one that matched what's on there now. Marlin 45 Colt - 1:38" r.h. Or are you wanting to add some length when you replace the barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 I reckon I'd just find one that matched what's on there now. Marlin 45 Colt - 1:38" r.h. Or are you wanting to add some length when you replace the barrel? I might just go for a 26" just be ...shall I say (the blank comes as a 27")...different GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Trampas, SASS # 55781 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If it is still accurate at CAS distance, leave it alone and shoot it, this isn't bullseye shooting, your rifle, do what you want, just telling you what I would do. All for now JD Trampas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well, I reckon you could always have it made shorter if you don't like it. Might look a bit strange with the mag tube for a 20 incher under it though. Of course then you'd be paying for the cut, crown, and dovetail for the sight twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Rose, SASS #45478 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If it still shoots good but the looks bother you, why don't you have it reblued or rebrowned. It is not difficult to draw file the bulge out, and it would be cheaper than rebarreling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 If it is still accurate at CAS distance, leave it alone and shoot it, this isn't bullseye shooting, your rifle, do what you want, just telling you what I would do. All for now JD Trampas I know, and a few pards have said that, but 1) it's a cosmetic thing and lookin' at it gives me the willy's...and 2) I really don't want to tell the story again and again when a pard comes up to the loading table and says 'What happened?" But, yeah, I'll still shoot it so that's why I said...'eventually' in my op. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I know, and a few pards have said that, but 1) it's a cosmetic thing and lookin' at it gives me the willy's...and 2) I really don't want to tell the story again and again when a pard comes up to the loading table and says 'What happened?" But, yeah, I'll still shoot it so that's why I said...'eventually' in my op. GG ~ Just tell them it was re-barreled with a Colt Anaconda barrel and it just swallowed some stealth bullets and hasn't digested them yet. I know several people that have rifles with bulged barrels. They shoot fine. At first they have the same concerns you have. Then they find out what a new barrel costs and forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 Just tell them it was re-barreled with a Colt Anaconda barrel and it just swallowed some stealth bullets and hasn't digested them yet. I know several people that have rifles with bulged barrels. They shoot fine. At first they have the same concerns you have. Then they find out what a new barrel costs and forget about it. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 14, 2012 Author Share Posted May 14, 2012 so - the 1:32 twsit is fine? GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Don't replace it. Just load up some good long range loads out to 3 or 400 yards and let go. On a pistol caliber rifle, shooting long range will stretch the barrel a bit and pull the bulge out, ya will never know it was there. :lol: yeah, but you may have to go down range to find your barrel. PS This may help: Greenhill calculator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 What brand/kind of rifle are you talking about? Are you sure you measured it correctly? Are you having accuracy problems? Here are the twists used by Uberti. http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/boregroovetwist/bore_groove_twist-Uberti.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 so - the 1:32 twsit is fine? Joe, as Larson pointed out, the 45 Long Colt is a 1:16 twist caliber. Will a 1:32 properly stabilize this caliber bullet? Have no idea. What I do know is: * A 45 Long Colt with a 300gr bullet in a '60 Henry with a 1:16 twist will take down Rams at 500 meters ... http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgeway%20Oct%202007/PDRM2906.jpg That was 2 consecutive knock downs. Cleaned the bank of Rams but not with 5 consecutive hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mingo Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Heeee Haaaa Gunner.. I got your problem solved for ya. When ya go ta load table and the LO says "Gull darn it, what the heck happened there" tell them this.. You were at a BIG match and one of your smokeless mouse-fart shootin pards broke their rifle so you loaned him yours.. and they must of not put any powder in there bullit and got one stuck in the barrel. Then when you shot it first the next stage, you hit two targets with one shot ,ya figured out something was wrong. Ya look at your rifle in disbelief and ya noticed a knot the size of a golf ball in your barrle That should work for ya.. Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Put a little red goo on the barrel and if someone asks say it's the blood of the last guy who asked about the bulge in the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Heeee Haaaa Gunner.. I got your problem solved for ya. When ya go ta load table and the LO says "Gull darn it, what the heck happened there" tell them this.. You were at a BIG match and one of your smokeless mouse-fart shootin pards broke their rifle so you loaned him yours.. and they must of not put any powder in there bullit and got one stuck in the barrel. Then when you shot it first the next stage, you hit two targets with one shot ,ya figured out something was wrong. Ya look at your rifle in disbelief and ya noticed a knot the size of a golf ball in your barrle That should work for ya.. Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo Lordy - you ARE Crazy ole Mingo amigo! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 What brand/kind of rifle are you talking about? Are you sure you measured it correctly? Are you having accuracy problems? Here are the twists used by Uberti. http://www.cimarron-...wist-Uberti.htm It's a Marlin... Green Mountain makes the 1:32 http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/productdetail.aspx?id=324019 McGowen makes a variety including 1:16 http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/catalog1.htm GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Here's some numbers I ran for the 454190, original Colt bullet in the Powley Stability Calculator. Calculator Inputs: * Velocity - 600 to 900fps * Length - 0.71" ... Key Number * Weight - 256gr * Diameter - 0.454 * Twist - 1:32 Calculator Outputs: Stability Factor - 15.88 for 600 fps and 16.87 for 900 fps... SF > 1.5 = Bullet is maximally stabilized Maximum Bullet Length - 0.71" Minimum Twist Calculation Results: 600 fps = 1:32 700 fps = 1:32 800 fps = 1:31.9 900 fps = 1:33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 As pointed out, the Greenhill formula says that even a 1:40 twist barrel would stabilize that 45 colt load. Uberti is being real careful and stabilizing even really heavy (like 350 grain) bullets when they put 1:16 twist barrels on their guns (even Ruger uses a 1:16 twist). That in theory could "over-spin" the bullets, but using all-lead slugs, there's no jacket to spin off the slug, and you are better off having lots more spin than not enough (keyholing problems occur). And, with .45 Colt, you will never be able to push a bullet so fast that it would spin apart, anyway. The quality of the barrel will be much more important to getting accuracy out of it than the twist rate. Anything from 1:16 to 1:40 would work. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Thanks guys for all your posts and help! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Anything from 1:16 to 1:40 would work. Joe, all depends on the fps and the bullet length (the key factors) PS: I wouldn't hang my hat on the Greenhill formula for 1:40. Greenhill's formula was based on calculating artillery shells using Cordite with a factor constant of 15. For black powder, Old Scout years ago (God Rest His Soul) determined the factor should be 25 to determine a get close number. IMHO - Powley came up with the stability calculator that has input variables and output calculations that are more variable with more accurate outputs. I 1st used it to determine the fps for the old Ideal 375166 bullet. 1050 to 1120 fps in a 1:18 barrel - dead nuts out to 500 meters! Based on powder burn rates, Powley also has a calculator to derive smokeless powder charges. Have fiddled with this one for BP - close, but no brass rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Shilen Barrels only twists one rate in their .45 pistol caliber barrels: 1:16. They usually know what they are doing. Might make sense to follow their lead, even if you don't want to pay for one of their barrels. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Shilen Barrels only twists one rate in their .45 pistol caliber barrels: 1:16. They usually know what they are doing. Might make sense to follow their lead, even if you don't want to pay for one of their barrels. Good luck, GJ that's the confusion - Green Mountain is known for excellent barrels too... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Well, twist rate and bullet stabilization is less important at low velocities, like .45 Colt cartridge is capable of, than at the 3500+ FPS velocities for center fire rifles and really long-for-caliber bullets. At those MVs, twist becomes really important. Too little, bullet wobbles. Too much, bullet can disintegrate. And, isn't Green Mtn more of a muzzle loader barrel, where a slow twist rate is best, especially for patched round balls (aka, very-short-for-caliber)? You might just be over thinking this topic. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Well, twist rate and bullet stabilization is less important at low velocities, like .45 Colt cartridge is capable of, than at the 3500+ FPS velocities for center fire rifles and really long-for-caliber bullets. At those MVs, twist becomes really important. Too little, bullet wobbles. Too much, bullet can disintegrate. And, isn't Green Mtn more of a muzzle loader barrel, where a slow twist rate is best, especially for patched round balls (aka, very-short-for-caliber)? You might just be over thinking this topic. Good luck, GJ I might be over thinking - but that's why I posted. Green Mountain is a muzzleloading barrel maker, but from the website they also do alot of different cartridge calibers too. All I want to do is get what is close to factory or the best twist for my application (stated in thw OP). I figure if I shell out the money for an eventual rebarrel I want to get the best I can. This is why I come on this forum because folks here can be trusted (maybe ) GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Mingo Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Heeee Haaaa Gunner.. Trust Me Save your MONEY the rifle shoots fine. You all ready finished a match with it with no PROBLEMS. At the end of the season weight the cost of a rebarrel or another Rifle Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Heeee Haaaa Gunner.. Trust Me Save your MONEY the rifle shoots fine. You all ready finished a match with it with no PROBLEMS. At the end of the season weight the cost of a rebarrel or another Rifle Heeee Haaaa Crazy Mingo and this coming from my mentor and fiercest competitor! HAR! ...Thanks Mingo - you are a pard. It'll be at the 2-day Rockford shoot so folks can gaggle and giggle and my pregnant barrel. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 As John Boy has pointed out Rifle twist is different from pistol twist even in the same caliber. The faster bullet velocity in a rifle requires less spin to stabilize it. But, there is no linear formula that works. Case in point, for years both Winchester and Marlin used 1 in 39 for there pistol cal rifles. They generally didn't do that well with the bigger 44/45 bullets. Then you have the Rossi's. They have been 1 in 30 for as long as I'm aware of and always out shot the Marlins and Wins because of it. To the topic. If you can't find a drop in replacement, as mentioned draw file the bulge down then reline that barrel. you will save some money and time. To replace it strating with a barrel blank you are looking at $600 minimum by the time you turn and thread the stub, chamber and headspace breech, cut all the dovetail slots for sights, mag tube and wood hangers, then crowm the muzzle, letter stamp it and blue it to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 16, 2012 Author Share Posted May 16, 2012 As John Boy has pointed out Rifle twist is different from pistol twist even in the same caliber. The faster bullet velocity in a rifle requires less spin to stabilize it. But, there is no linear formula that works. Case in point, for years both Winchester and Marlin used 1 in 39 for there pistol cal rifles. They generally didn't do that well with the bigger 44/45 bullets. Then you have the Rossi's. They have been 1 in 30 for as long as I'm aware of and always out shot the Marlins and Wins because of it. To the topic. If you can't find a drop in replacement, as mentioned draw file the bulge down then reline that barrel. you will save some money and time. To replace it strating with a barrel blank you are looking at $600 minimum by the time you turn and thread the stub, chamber and headspace breech, cut all the dovetail slots for sights, mag tube and wood hangers, then crowm the muzzle, letter stamp it and blue it to match. I know it will be an expensive endeavor. It will be done eventually. But I may put off the task as a pard mentioned that he may have a 44-40 Uberti 1873 24" barreled sporting rifle for sale. Since I have an 1860 Henry, 1894 Marlin, 1892 Rossi, it kinda makes sense in adding 'the gun that won the west' to the list. Now I'll need to figure reloading the 44-40 ~ new to me GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 I know it will be an expensive endeavor. It will be done eventually. But I may put off the task as a pard mentioned that he may have a 44-40 Uberti 1873 24" barreled sporting rifle for sale. Since I have an 1860 Henry, 1894 Marlin, 1892 Rossi, it kinda makes sense in adding 'the gun that won the west' to the list. Now I'll need to figure reloading the 44-40 ~ new to me GG ~ So, you're gonna buy another shotgun huh, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 all .45 Colt Marlins are 1:38 (the manual online was wrong for years) and they run 300s better'n most can hold. If I had my druthers (recently did), I'b buy a 1:16 Douglas barrel and have it done with, but that was for a single shot bench rest gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Have you thought of putting a WTB barrel ad on the classifieds? No telling what people may have sitting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 17, 2012 Author Share Posted May 17, 2012 So, you're gonna buy another shotgun huh, I know the shotgun is the REAL gun that one the west, but the '73 seems to be the one that is associated with that image. It's cooler GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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