Determining the Overall Match Winner

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I was thinking of several words to describe it, but I think "chickenshit" is the best word I've seen so far. Good on ya J. Mark for nailing it in this response.

 

I will also say this. If my chubby little 4'9" 9 y/o shooting a pair of Heritage Rough Rider .22's, Henry Youth .22 rifle and a single shot 12 gauge shotgun with below-recipe loads is scaring all of you grown-ups and your precious "Rank Point Overall Standings," then I'm as embarrassed as J. Mark is to be a part of this organization.

 

Go ahead. Screw this up and run off all of the young shooters.....and their parents, grandparents, uncles, etc.

 

Chick

 

How exactly is anything "Screwing this up" and running off all the young shooters?

 

And why is YOUR way of understanding this issue the only way and if not your way...it's an embarrassment?

 

Believe it or not, there is a reasonable opinion other then yours.

 

Phantom

[Joe Boy SASS#29271]

How exactly is anything "Screwing this up" and running off all the young shooters?

 

And why is YOUR way of understanding this issue the only way and if not your way...it's an embarrassment?

 

Believe it or not, there is a reasonable opinion other then yours.

 

Phantom

There are very feww that think this was a good ruleing

I still say for youall who think this is a bad rule vote with your check book Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

There are very feww that think this was a good ruleing

I still say for youall who think this is a bad rule vote with your check book Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

So say you...so what would you do that would be better?

[Joe Boy SASS#29271]

So say you...so what would you do that would be better?

As you know it was fine the way it was untill a 13 yr. old started kicking Asssssssssssss

You of all people ???????????????

All I say is if any one does not agree with the new rule VOTE AT EOT with your check BOOK DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Kirk James]

Just shoot ACSA today with my son Cody, a buckaroo. Cody said he wanted to shoot by the Rattlesnake Wrangler rule. Everything went well and he hit every shotgun knockdown. My family will support the rule, but as stated in an earlier response I am shocked that a committee would change a rule, or clarify a rule used for years, four weeks before a world competition. The way it stands now you could have two categories of shooters in the same classification, Buckaroo. With the number of shooters in the buckaroo category someone will be feel undermined or treated unfairly. As I also said in a previous response let him shooters, relax and enjoy their hard work. The conversations I overheard was how unfair and unsportsmanlike it is to change a rule before a competition begins. Let RW have the opportunity to make history in this sport, or unless you haven't heard, he already has. Whatever you decide, think about the 13 and under shooters whose families are also sacrificing to shoot in this incredible event. We support the changing of this rule, but the timing is incredibly poor. You have the responses of many other parents and grandparents of buckaroo/buckarette shooters on one post or another. I hope you are considering their feeling also.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

As you know it was fine the way it was untill a 13 yr. old started kicking Asssssssssssss

You of all people ???????????????

All I say is if any one does not agree with the new rule VOTE AT EOT with your check BOOK DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

What do you mean "You of all People"?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Very flattering Buck! I hope Dylan doesn't see it and get a big head. Lol. Seriously though, I think this is on the right track. I have a solution that should fix most of this and I'd like some input on it.

 

Here is my idea. First off make everryone in the buckaroo class both male and female shoot the match like everyone else regarding knockdowns, birds etc. the guns in the buckaroo class will be .32 caliber and above. Shotgun will be 20 gauge and above. The age bracket will still be the same 9-13. This way all can be scored with the main match not effecting any other category. This will now be called Master Buckaroo. Then we have a standard Buckaroo class where they are scored separate from the main match. The current buckaroo rules would be in effect with regards to KD's. They could use 22's and 410's if they want or any sass legal caliber if they so choose. This would serve as a training ground so to speak and when they are ready to move up they can. Ages for this category would be 9-13 the same as Master Buckaroo except it would not be scored with the main match so as not to interfere with the main match scoring and rank placement. There would be awards for this category as well of course. If SASS would embrace this concept I bet Colt Faro and Rattlesnake Wrangler would sponsor the awards for the new sub buckaroo class at EOT and Winter Range for 2012 and 2013. I think this would be a successful way to approach the current challenge that is before us.

 

Colt Faro

 

 

Colt,

 

Genuine fresh idea. BUT, I must say that the Wild Bunch has been a stone wall when it comes to recognizing categories at EOT unless a certain minimum of shooters are signed up.

 

That could be your biggest hurdle.

 

Just thought I would share that thought.

 

 

..........Widder

[Grizzly Dave]

We could call the two categories...

 

Buck, and Buck lite!

[Chickahominy Charlie]

How exactly is anything "Screwing this up" and running off all the young shooters?

 

And why is YOUR way of understanding this issue the only way and if not your way...it's an embarrassment?

 

Believe it or not, there is a reasonable opinion other then yours.

 

Phantom

 

Since you've shown, on multiple occasions, what a first class jerk you can be, I've made a rule to ignore you, but I will break my rule this once. Do not expect me to break my rule again.

 

My post was specifically directed toward the other posts which advocated the removal of all buckeroo/ette category shooters from the overall listing -- regardless of whether they have invoked the "Rattlesnake Rule" or not. The argument, as I read the responses, was because those young shooters "didn't shoot the same match as the rest of us and lowered our overall ranking under the rank point system." Another post advocated that all buckeroo/ettes should be required to shoot centerfire cartridges and knock down shotgun targets "like the rest of us."

 

I have posted requesting a "clarification to the clarification" on this post and echoed the question in another thread, but have never seen a specific answer.

 

I must assume that the special provisions afforded to the buckeroo/ette categories were done in order to account for the difference in size, strength and maturity of the young shooters. As pointed out on this thread, and the numerous other threads on this subject to date, young shooters are most often disadvantaged because of their smaller stature. They (in some cases) cannot safely shoot larger, center-fire calibers or full charged shotgun rounds. They often must take more steps to get from point A to point B during the course of fire. Their hands are smaller making shotgun reloading slower and more difficult. They often must reposition during their course of fire in order to see over pistol targets to engage rifle targets or even over the store fronts/props. These are things which do not inhibit the average adult shooter.

 

I personally do not agree with the Rattlesnake Rule, but it is what it is, and I accept it for what it is. If Colt and Rattlesnake are fine with it, then so be it. However, the ripple effect from this rule is that now other shooters (not just the "top shooters" who are vying for Top Overall) are advocating that the buckeroo/ette category either (1) be removed from the overall shooter list entirely or (2) be required to use weapons which may be more than they can safely handle at this point in their young shooter life.

 

It is these points of view that I concur with J. Mark in calling "chickenshit" and an "embarrassment." I also fully believe that if (1) buckeroo/ettes are removed entirely from the overall shooter list and placed in some sort of "separate listing" or if (2) they are required to fire only larger, center-fire weapon calibers, we will lose young shooters -- and the adults who bring them.

 

Chick

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Since you've shown, on multiple occasions, what a first class jerk you can be, I've made a rule to ignore you, but I will break my rule this once. Do not expect me to break my rule again.

 

My post was specifically directed toward the other posts which advocated the removal of all buckeroo/ette category shooters from the overall listing -- regardless of whether they have invoked the "Rattlesnake Rule" or not. The argument, as I read the responses, was because those young shooters "didn't shoot the same match as the rest of us and lowered our overall ranking under the rank point system." Another post advocated that all buckeroo/ettes should be required to shoot centerfire cartridges and knock down shotgun targets "like the rest of us."

 

I have posted requesting a "clarification to the clarification" on this post and echoed the question in another thread, but have never seen a specific answer.

 

I must assume that the special provisions afforded to the buckeroo/ette categories were done in order to account for the difference in size, strength and maturity of the young shooters. As pointed out on this thread, and the numerous other threads on this subject to date, young shooters are most often disadvantaged because of their smaller stature. They (in some cases) cannot safely shoot larger, center-fire calibers or full charged shotgun rounds. They often must take more steps to get from point A to point B during the course of fire. Their hands are smaller making shotgun reloading slower and more difficult. They often must reposition during their course of fire in order to see over pistol targets to engage rifle targets or even over the store fronts/props. These are things which do not inhibit the average adult shooter.

 

I personally do not agree with the Rattlesnake Rule, but it is what it is, and I accept it for what it is. If Colt and Rattlesnake are fine with it, then so be it. However, the ripple effect from this rule is that now other shooters (not just the "top shooters" who are vying for Top Overall) are advocating that the buckeroo/ette category either (1) be removed from the overall shooter list entirely or (2) be required to use weapons which may be more than they can safely handle at this point in their young shooter life.

 

It is these points of view that I concur with J. Mark in calling "chickenshit" and an "embarrassment." I also fully believe that if (1) buckeroo/ettes are removed entirely from the overall shooter list and placed in some sort of "separate listing" or if (2) they are required to fire only larger, center-fire weapon calibers, we will lose young shooters -- and the adults who bring them.

 

Chick

 

Nice post...but I don't see how you answered my question...I guess I'm not only a Jerk to you...but I must be dense!

 

And frankly, Colt and Rattlesnake don't have to be "Fine" with it...they are not the owners of SASS.

 

And frankly...you calling me a jerk says a lot about you...who doesn't even know me!

 

THAT'S the COWBOY WAY!!!!! But it easy to jump on the Phantom's a Jerk bandwagon...and frankly (i'm likin that word on this post), you can have those that are on that bandwagon as most of them don't know me from adam!

 

Let's hear it for the COWBOY WAY!!!!!!

 

[Jacknife]

Chick, the last part of your last paragraph, where in the heck has this action been mentioned except by a bunch of pot stirrers on the wire here? Some people gop off on a tangent and others follow like a bunch of blind mice.

 

Oh, and before ya go off on the Phantom, just lissen to what he has to say and take it to heart. Not the "way" he says things, but the content. He has played this game, and played it well, for some time and knows his way around this sport. try it, ya might like it.

[LEAD BANE, SASS 70197]

I LIKE PHANTOM, BUT EVERYONE THINKS IM A JERK TOO!

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Yeah, me too LB. Folks say Phantom is the nicest guy ya ever wanta meet in person and helpful as the day is long. He just suffers the same problem as you and I. And that is that it is sometimes difficult to express oneself just so on these interwebs. Folks get the impression we are jerks just because we don't mince words and just blurt out our minds.

 

It's a matter of perception. Folks read a post and mistake the tone.

 

Folks need to not jump to conclusions and try real hard to overlook their prejudices when judging others and their imperfect posts. None of us are perfect and some of us just have a hard time expressing our thoughts in a politically correct manner so that others don't take umbrage.

[Colt Faro, SASS #54579]

Colt,

 

Genuine fresh idea. BUT, I must say that the Wild Bunch has been a stone wall when it comes to recognizing categories at EOT unless a certain minimum of shooters are signed up.

 

That could be your biggest hurdle.

 

Just thought I would share that thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

I know what you are saying Widder and I have been racking my brain trying to find a good solution to this issue and it is difficult. I know it's not my job or my place to do that however I really want to get all this settled. I know there will be no way to please everyone. I would just like to work it all out somehow so all the argument can stop. There usually is a minimum to make a category so that's why I offered to fund the awards for the sub buckaroo category. That way we could recognize all that participated in that class. It's my belief that our youngest shooters need the most nurturing so that's how I felt it would be best to do it.

 

In reality sass will do what they will with all this and we will do our best to support the decisions they make. In my opinion we all need to work together on this instead of being divided.

 

Our position at this time on this is that Dylan will be shooting everything from here on out just like the adults are required to do. To us that's the only option so we are really focussed at this time on the how all this effects the other shooters both young and old. Having a positive working solution is crucial at this point. Short sighted clarifications really won't suffice at this time given the magnitude of the issue.

 

That's the way I see it right now anyway.

 

Colt

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Sure Phantom is a Jerk

Only if you take his comments seriously

Some people take everything said here on "The Wire" as fact.

If you have been on "The Wire" any time at all you should know that!! I've been accused of being a "Pot Stirrer" in fact I have a button given me that states that fact! Sometimes it's FUN

Some people should take the drug of your choice and "Chill Out" !!

 

Geeze people, SASS has spoken, it's their game, if you don't like it don't Play!! Some think they can vote on the matter....Nope!!

This is between Colt and RW and the other Buckaroos that are out there who could whup me and most others out there!!

I for one am tired of the "Crap" that has been said about this subject! I have heard some blaming Phantom for this because he got beat by RW, NOT TRUE!!!!! He would never do that!!!!

Let's get on with it!!

 

Now, About Rank Points vs Total Time!!!

[Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923]

As you know it was fine the way it was untill a 13 yr. old started kicking Asssssssssssss

You of all people ???????????????

All I say is if any one does not agree with the new rule VOTE AT EOT with your check BOOK DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

 

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah your wrong. This hasn't set well with some shooters for some time. Rattlesnake isn't the first Buckaroo to do something like this. It has happened before in this region where a shooter didn't have to make up knockdowns and a better shooter was denied a overall win because of the rules. It wasn't protested at the match because the young shooter shot within the rules. Did it rub some others the wrong way???? Absolutely but we all still shoot.

 

I suspect that a lot of people who agree with this rule change are not piping up because it doesn't chap their back side like it does others who find it deplorable.

 

Ketchum

[Blastmaster]

Step back for a moment and think about this.

 

Title says "Determiing the Overall Match Winner",,,,, and goes on to specifiy for Buckarooes/ettes. For this moment, let us just look at the big picture, Overall Match Winner Title.

 

Out of 'all' shooters, lock-stock-barrel.... just what percentile are even in contension for Overall Match Winner at 'any' match? I can only guess but at a small to medium match, perhaps five (5)%. At a large match, something less than that , 3%??? For example, WT2012, 800 shooter @ 3% = 24 shooters capable of taking Overall?

 

So why the fuss?... There are bigger issues in SASS. 95-97 percent of us will never get there. Irreguardless of how much money,time,effort one dedicates to it. Every once in a blue moon, I take a small match. Feels good, but the feeling of my performing all the shooting scenerios to "my own" near perfection is the reward. Not the trophy. No one else cares after they leave the range. I salute the Overall Winner at matches, but soon forget and don't really care shortly afterwards.

 

 

As stated on another threat, and I seconded the idea..... do away with Overall Match Winner. It really doesn't mean anything. This problem goes away.

 

Keep Catagory Winners, that means something.

 

Blastmaster

[Joe Boy SASS#29271]

As you know it was fine the way it was untill a 13 yr. old started kicking Asssssssssssss

You of all people ???????????????

All I say is if any one does not agree with the new rule VOTE AT EOT with your check BOOK DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

+2

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

Colt,

 

Genuine fresh idea. BUT, I must say that the Wild Bunch has been a stone wall when it comes to recognizing categories at EOT unless a certain minimum of shooters are signed up.

 

That could be your biggest hurdle.

 

Just thought I would share that thought.

 

 

..........Widder

Widder,

The Stone wall is the TG's not the WB, I know for a fact Tex is in support of more of different categories, also the min number does not apply to the younger shooters, if there is one then they reconize the category.

 

KK

[Noz]

Colt,

 

Genuine fresh idea. BUT, I must say that the Wild Bunch has been a stone wall when it comes to recognizing categories at EOT unless a certain minimum of shooters are signed up.

 

That could be your biggest hurdle.

 

Just thought I would share that thought.

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

A lot of shoots have a Chipmunk category. Raise the age limit on Chimpmunk and force the Buckaroos/rettes to all shoot Rattlesnake.

[Noz]

Was that a double tap I just heard?

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

Since you've shown, on multiple occasions, what a first class jerk you can be, I've made a rule to ignore you, but I will break my rule this once. Do not expect me to break my rule again.

 

My post was specifically directed toward the other posts which advocated the removal of all buckeroo/ette category shooters from the overall listing -- regardless of whether they have invoked the "Rattlesnake Rule" or not. The argument, as I read the responses, was because those young shooters "didn't shoot the same match as the rest of us and lowered our overall ranking under the rank point system." Another post advocated that all buckeroo/ettes should be required to shoot centerfire cartridges and knock down shotgun targets "like the rest of us."

 

I have posted requesting a "clarification to the clarification" on this post and echoed the question in another thread, but have never seen a specific answer.

 

I must assume that the special provisions afforded to the buckeroo/ette categories were done in order to account for the difference in size, strength and maturity of the young shooters. As pointed out on this thread, and the numerous other threads on this subject to date, young shooters are most often disadvantaged because of their smaller stature. They (in some cases) cannot safely shoot larger, center-fire calibers or full charged shotgun rounds. They often must take more steps to get from point A to point B during the course of fire. Their hands are smaller making shotgun reloading slower and more difficult. They often must reposition during their course of fire in order to see over pistol targets to engage rifle targets or even over the store fronts/props. These are things which do not inhibit the average adult shooter.

 

I personally do not agree with the Rattlesnake Rule, but it is what it is, and I accept it for what it is. If Colt and Rattlesnake are fine with it, then so be it. However, the ripple effect from this rule is that now other shooters (not just the "top shooters" who are vying for Top Overall) are advocating that the buckeroo/ette category either (1) be removed from the overall shooter list entirely or (2) be required to use weapons which may be more than they can safely handle at this point in their young shooter life.

 

It is these points of view that I concur with J. Mark in calling "chickenshit" and an "embarrassment." I also fully believe that if (1) buckeroo/ettes are removed entirely from the overall shooter list and placed in some sort of "separate listing" or if (2) they are required to fire only larger, center-fire weapon calibers, we will lose young shooters -- and the adults who bring them.

 

Chick

 

Going totally of on a tangent here.

 

Chick I know both you and Phantom and both of you are stand up pards. I have the idea if you were to meet Phantom and be able to visit with him for a while, then maybe you (as I can) could kinda hear his tone of voice here on the wire.

 

If ever you both are on the same range again, maybe I could moderate a first meet and greet and then you both would see what I can see (about you both) from a different view.

 

Phantom is a STAND UP guy and he is willing to go the extra mile as it were for this game, he has been in it for a long time and had the benefit of that experience. YES, he can come across as a little opinionated at times (as we all can), but he means no malice towards anyone that I have ever witnessed.

 

N.C.

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

Double tap

[Colt Faro, SASS #54579]

A lot of shoots have a Chipmunk category. Raise the age limit on Chimpmunk and force the Buckaroos/rettes to all shoot Rattlesnake.

 

You're dead on Noz! Nice shot and that's where the idea came from. It works quite well here in Texas. I know the Bar 3 has the Chipmonk category and when Texas State was at Oakwood it was called Lil Buckaroo and both scored separate from the main match.

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

What a shame that I have to leave this conversation for a long motorcycle trip. There are so many distinguished, thought provoking, insightful posts that it's just hard not to read some of them in a sort of warped- in- an- enigma (pun intended) kind of way.

 

Some of my favorite themes: Boycott EOT when you had no intention of going anyway because other shooters are better than you.

 

The rule change is only sour grapes and has no relationship to the future of youth or champions in our sport.

 

Make a point of nationally and internationally showcasing champions whose victory is a direct result of watered down engagement and scoring criteria. And this as a publicity event to attract serious competitors from other shooting disciplines.

 

Call others who disagree with you "STOOPIT.. nannny nannny boo boo's" BRILLIANT!

 

And my all time favorite is to impugn the character of the one World Champion Shooter that had no input at all in the initial clarification.

 

There are so many such fine examples of the Cowboy Way and our nation's religious founding principles in these pages they would serve almost any critic of the seriousness of SASS as a competitive shooting sport and at the same time, call into question anyone's sanity for wanting to be a member.

[Concho Billy]

What a shame that I have to leave this conversation for a long motorcycle trip. There are so many distinguished, thought provoking, insightful posts that it's just hard not to read some of them in a sort of warped- in- an- enigma (pun intended) kind of way.

 

Some of my favorite themes: Boycott EOT when you had no intention of going anyway because other shooters are better than you.

 

The rule change is only sour grapes and has no relationship to the future of youth or champions in our sport.

 

Make a point of nationally and internationally showcasing champions whose victory is a direct result of watered down engagement and scoring criteria. And this as a publicity event to attract serious competitors from other shooting disciplines.

 

Call others who disagree with you "STOOPIT.. nannny nannny boo boo's" BRILLIANT!

 

And my all time favorite is to impugn the character of the one World Champion Shooter that had no input at all in the initial clarification.

 

There are so many such fine examples of the Cowboy Way and our nation's religious founding principles in these pages they would serve almost any critic of the seriousness of SASS as a competitive shooting sport and at the same time, call into question anyone's sanity for wanting to be a member.

Well, one thing for sure.......you can sure tell who is buddies here and who aren't......you fellows keep up the mutual admiration society, it funny. And let me add once again that when a rule stands for years and then all of a sudden is "Clarified" because a couple of great young shooters start winning, it sure looks/sounds/appears like sour grapes......

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

Well, one thing for sure.......you can sure tell who is buddies here and who aren't......you fellows keep up the mutual admiration society, it funny. And let me add once again that when a rule stands for years and then all of a sudden is "Clarified" because a couple of great young shooters start winning, it sure looks/sounds/appears like sour grapes......

Release the sphincter hold on your neck until that popping sound indicates you're ready to take a more enlightened, broad-minded view and you'll understand that this isn't about one shooter, one win, one category. Anyone awake in this sport shooting at top level competitions has seen this one coming for a long time.

 

It takes a pretty small-minded, agenda driven, petty perspective to make this so misunderstood as to be personal or about personalities. It's simply about creating a set of rules that requires all targets, engagements and scoring to be the same for all competitors to permit an overall winner to be sanctioned by the rules.

 

To make it about anything other than that is a pathetic misunderstanding thst speaks more about the person than what is good for the sport.

[Jacknife]

 

And let me add once again that when a rule stands for years and then all of a sudden is "Clarified" because a couple of great young shooters start winning, it sure looks/sounds/appears like sour grapes......

 

 

 

So, tell me what is the difference in having this rule "clairified", and a state or federal government having a law in place for years and the supreme court clarifying it years later. Just what is the difference. You seem to have all the answers, just tell us the difference. Enquiring minds wanna know. :lol:

[Concho Billy]

Release the sphincter hold on your neck until that popping sound indicates you're ready to take a more enlightened, broad-minded view and you'll understand that this isn't about one shooter, one win, one category. Anyone awake in this sport shooting at top level competitions has seen this one coming for a long time.

 

It takes a pretty small-minded, agenda driven, petty perspective to make this so misunderstood as to be personal or about personalities. It's simply about creating a set of rules that requires all targets, engagements and scoring to be the same for all competitors to permit an overall winner to be sanctioned by the rules.

 

To make it about anything other than that is a pathetic misunderstanding thst speaks more about the person than what is good for the sport.

And you complain about someone who only believes they have a right to an opinion, yet here you are stating that only yours is correct.....how funny.

[Concho Billy]

So, tell me what is the difference in having this rule "clairified", and a state or federal government having a law in place for years and the supreme court clarifying it years later. Just what is the difference. You seem to have all the answers, just tell us the difference. Enquiring minds wanna know. :lol:

Seems pretty clear that the rule has been in place for years, yet just now needs clarifing.......you can read between the lines, I know you can....try hard.

[Concho Billy]

So, tell me what is the difference in having this rule "clairified", and a state or federal government having a law in place for years and the supreme court clarifying it years later. Just what is the difference. You seem to have all the answers, just tell us the difference. Enquiring minds wanna know. :lol:

Seems pretty clear that the rule has been in place for years, yet just now needs clarifing.......you can read between the lines, I know you can....try hard.

[Concho Billy]

Release the sphincter hold on your neck until that popping sound indicates you're ready to take a more enlightened, broad-minded view and you'll understand that this isn't about one shooter, one win, one category. Anyone awake in this sport shooting at top level competitions has seen this one coming for a long time.

 

It takes a pretty small-minded, agenda driven, petty perspective to make this so misunderstood as to be personal or about personalities. It's simply about creating a set of rules that requires all targets, engagements and scoring to be the same for all competitors to permit an overall winner to be sanctioned by the rules.

 

To make it about anything other than that is a pathetic misunderstanding thst speaks more about the person than what is good for the sport.

 

 

 

Maybe another ride will clear your mind and you could approach this without trying to insult.......or are you beneath that.....ok, whatever.....

[LEAD BANE, SASS 70197]

Maybe another ride will clear your mind and you could approach this without trying to insult.......or are you beneath that.....ok, whatever.....

 

CB, lifes hard, lifes harder when your stupid. Hope things turn out for ya!

[Concho Billy]

CB, lifes hard, lifes harder when your stupid. Hope things turn out for ya!

 

 

Right back at you there lead......you seem to be the one with the problem as most here would attest (see your own post above

).....anyone else in the mutual admiration society want to chime-in.......

[Grizzly Dave]