Misty Moonshine Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Determining the Overall Match Winner in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette Competitors The rule to consider at all times when formulating a match that is both fair and consistent for all competitors, in stage design as well as scoring and determining the "winner" is to ask the question: "Did everyone shoot the same match?" Can a Buckaroo/Buckarette win a match overall? YES! As long as he/she shoots the same match as everyone else! if they choose to compete for the Overall Title. To clarify: * Buckaroo/ette Category Champions: When competing in the Buckaroo/Buckarette category, the shooter is "vying" for the Category champion title, hence, competing against others in that category who are following the same match specs, requirements, and shooting scenarios with the same expectations for performance (ie, the knockdown target doesn't have to go down, it only has to be hit). * Buckaroo/ette Overall Match Winner: When a Buckaroo/Buckarette chooses to compete for an "Overall" Match Title, particularly at the World Championship level, that shooter is competing with all shooters, regardless of age. All target and scenario engagements must be met with the same expectations for performance with no advantage at that level. If the Buckaroo/Buckarette chooses to compete for the Overall Title, the shooter must inform the match officials and shoot the match accordingly. If the stage/scenario calls for a knockdown, the target must be down to count, aerial targets must be engaged, reloads taken at the line, etc. Until now, there has been no official clarification, current rule, guideline, or restriction for determining the OVERALL Match winner at a SASS Sanctioned match in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors at the State, Regional, National, or World Championships as SASS Sanctioned matches. SASS takes the above stand in regards to determining the Overall Champion at the World Championship Level, END of TRAIL. ~Misty Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi Misty, Thanks for the clarification. I hope this will be added to the Match Director's Guide or other booklet. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Faro, SASS #54579 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Determining the Overall Match Winner in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette Competitors The rule to consider at all times when formulating a match that is both fair and consistent for all competitors, in stage design as well as scoring and determining the "winner" is to ask the question: "Did everyone shoot the same match?" Can a Buckaroo/Buckarette win a match overall? YES! As long as he/she shoots the same match as everyone else! if they choose to compete for the Overall Title. To clarify: * Buckaroo/ette Category Champions: When competing in the Buckaroo/Buckarette category, the shooter is "vying" for the Category champion title, hence, competing against others in that category who are following the same match specs, requirements, and shooting scenarios with the same expectations for performance (ie, the knockdown target doesn't have to go down, it only has to be hit). * Buckaroo/ette Overall Match Winner: When a Buckaroo/Buckarette chooses to compete for an "Overall" Match Title, particularly at the World Championship level, that shooter is competing with all shooters, regardless of age. All target and scenario engagements must be met with the same expectations for performance with no advantage at that level. If the Buckaroo/Buckarette chooses to compete for the Overall Title, the shooter must inform the match officials and shoot the match accordingly. If the stage/scenario calls for a knockdown, the target must be down to count, aerial targets must be engaged, reloads taken at the line, etc. Until now, there has been no official clarification, current rule, guideline, or restriction for determining the OVERALL Match winner at a SASS Sanctioned match in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors at the State, Regional, National, or World Championships as SASS Sanctioned matches. SASS takes the above stand in regards to determining the Overall Champion at the World Championship Level, END of TRAIL. ~Misty Moonshine I would like it noted that this is a new rule as of today and that me and Rattlesnake both support this ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 It's the Rattlesnake Wrangler Rule. Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I would like it noted that this is a new rule as of today and that me and Rattlesnake both support this ruling. Class act all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Faro, SASS #54579 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 "The Rattlesnake Wrangler Rule" Any buckaroo or buckarette wishing to shoot for the overall will now be shooting "Rattlesnake" not a different category just a different mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 "The Rattlesnake Wrangler Rule" Any buckaroo or buckarette wishing to shoot for the overall will now be shooting "Rattlesnake" not a different category just a different mission. As in: Hold my pop and watch this boys. I'm going RATTLESNAKE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Flimshaw Sass# 73310 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Now that wasn't so bad......was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Faro, SASS #54579 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Now that wasn't so bad......was it? What wasn't so bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Here's to more Buckaroo/Buckarette victories in the future! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Hi Misty, Thanks for the clarification. I hope this will be added to the Match Director's Guide or other booklet. Regards, Allie Mo Yes, Allie, we'll work on updating the Match Director's Guide accordingly. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Dear Misty, I'm so glad we have you reading the Wire. Although some of us are very outspoken here, I think it is important that the owners know what those who do speak out have to say. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monco Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Somehow I get the feeling Rattlesnake will still be well within the running for Overall Match Winner anywhere he goes. Great shoot'n Rattlesnake Wrangler! and great rule clarification SASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tom Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Does this apply to just the top overall shooter which is often a male. Or does it apply to top female overall also at the shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 So! If someone is not using the Rattlesnake rule, goes for category only and still manages to have the fastest time and lowest rank points, do they just move them over to the side and say, ,,,,,what???? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 So! If someone is not using the Rattlesnake rule, goes for category only and still manages to have the fastest time and lowest rank points, do they just move them over to the side and say, ,,,,,what???? Just asking. You are correct the Buckeroo or Buckerett must declare their intentions, if they don't and do win overall you must assume they shot the match under current buckerett or Buckeroo rule for example (knockdowns must be hit but not required to fall). What a big decision for such a young shooter. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Can they shoot 22s and compete for overall winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOCBRAZOS, SASS#18033L Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Can they shoot 22s and compete for overall winner? Ahhhhhhhhhhh........... NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ahhhhhhhhhhh........... NO Why not??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederick Jackson Turner Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 I applaud SASS for quickly and decisively resolving this issue. No rule book is ever perfect; EVERY thing has to happen a first time. The response to such peculiarities when they arise defines laudable leadership. Dylan moving the bar is a remarkable achievement, in itself. Regards, FJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Please allow me to reiterate this fact: SASS has not "CHANGED" the rules. What we have done is established an official clarification of a qualifier for the Overall title. I received this comment on my profile: Joe Boy SASS#29271 Today, 04:28 PM you should tell who ever changed tHE rules for buckaroos they need to post their NAMES .I would like to know and I am sure may others would also. So, in answer for those who are questioning- again, we didn't CHANGE the rules. And by "we" I refer to: Judge Roy Bean, SASS #1, General US Grant, SASS #2, Tex, SASS #4, and Hipshot, SASS #7. The decision was made after lengthy consultations with the key folks directly involved, as well as numerous consultations for feedback and input with a number of well respected and distinguished shooters and long time SASS members, including Colt Faro and Rattlesnake Wrangler. Misty Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Ahhhhhhhhhhh........... NO I did not see that in the clairfication, missed it somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Stephen D Hill, SASS #56151 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 "The Rattlesnake Wrangler Rule" Any buckaroo or buckarette wishing to shoot for the overall will now be shooting "Rattlesnake" not a different category just a different mission. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell Belle Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thank you, Misti for approaching this subject in this manner.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuttin' Graceful Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 As a match director this issue has been on my mind as far back as the US Open last year. I have discussed this issue with a number of match directors and SASS representatives over the last few months. All those that run matches recognize the need for establishing a uniform and level playing field for awarding the Overall title. Thanks Misty for publishing this information. Go get'um RATTLESNAKE! You won't have me to kick around anymore.......I'm going OUTLAW (and I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a shotgun from the hip). Your gonna beat me so bad it won't even be funny! Nuttin Graceful (Duelist - Retired) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checotah Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I can see the logic behind this ruling. I'm just hoping it is being applied forward, and not backward, stripping a fine young shooter of an award well earned under the rules and interpretations in effect at the time of the shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Mushman Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Determining the Overall Match Winner in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette Competitors Until now, there has been no official clarification, current rule, guideline, or restriction for determining the OVERALL Match winner at a SASS Sanctioned match in regards to Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors at the State, Regional, National, or World Championships as SASS Sanctioned matches. SASS takes the above stand in regards to determining the Overall Champion at the World Championship Level, END of TRAIL. ~Misty Moonshine Misty, I applaud this and your clear write up. Seems pretty straight forward for EOT, and NOT retroactive to anything else. Solves that possible issue. I assume there will be more discussion about how far down to go with this in the future for the other levels (state and above, or even a general SASS rule?). Perhaps a TG summit item? Thanks, Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Gun Johnnie Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I can answer one of the questions. As the assistant match director for the Texas State Championship, I can tell you that all SASS rules were followed...PERIOD. No one will have their title taken away....PERIOD. Now, I have questions... As far as this new ruling, I have no problem with it. It sounds like SASS wants a level playing field for anyone in the overall. I think that is good. Question is, will all buckaroo/buckarette (using the normal shooting rules)be placed on the overall list?? Two list will be used at the end of the match. List #1 will be the category list showing first - last. List #2 will be the overall list showing first - last. Will there now be 2 overall list..IE junior on up and then buckaroo/buckarette?? If you don't have 2 list, it won't be fair. Example: Shooter A (gunfighter) has a goal of being in the top 25. Buckaroo A (using normal shooting rules) places 25th, pushing shooter A (gunfighter) down to 26th. The two shooters did not shoot the match under the same rules, so.....its not fair. If things are going to be changed in an effort to make it fair, then there needs to be a complete change. If 800 people shoot EOT and 25 are buckaroo (using the normal shooting rules)then the overall list needs to show 775 shooters on one list and 25 overall on another list. Misty, I think you guys are trying to do your best and I think you are making good progress. I would not want to be in your boots. Rattlesnake Wrangler has taken this sport by storm across the world. Nothing like having to change the game because of our great young shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I don't really have a dog in this hunt but in following along Two Gun Johnnie's posting above.....will there need to be a small modification in the SASS scoring program to accommodate this new rule clarification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nichols Creek, SASS #77627 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Now, just where did I put that can of worms???? Thanks for the "clarification". I realize non was neede before a buck a roo of the young reptiles abilities surfaced. But I'm with Johnnie on this one. Do we not now have to revamp the whole ball of wax as far as scoring is concerened. OR, do we just say If a buckaroo/ette shooting the "normal" long and well establised rules, happens to be first in TT/RP, do we automaticlly move them to second or what???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curley Fryes Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Dear Misty, I'm so glad we have you reading the Wire. Although some of us are very outspoken here, I think it is important that the owners know what those who do speak out have to say. Regards, Allie +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I did not see that in the clairfication, missed it somewhere. * Buckaroo/ette Category Champions: When competing in the Buckaroo/Buckarette category, the shooter is "vying" for the Category champion title, hence, competing against others in that category who are following the same match specs, requirements, and shooting scenarios with the same expectations for performance (ie, the knockdown target doesn't have to go down, it only has to be hit). As far as I know, other contestants are not allowed to shoot 22 rimfire as a main match caliber. That specification is limited to Buckaroo/ette and side matches. Hence, the Buckaroo/ette contesent is not shooting the same match specs according to the above position statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Does this apply to just the top overall shooter which is often a male. Or does it apply to top female overall also at the shoot? There have always been a Ladies Overall Champion and a Mens Overall Champion. It applies to both. (And- here's to a Buckarette winning the overall!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Moonshine Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 I can see the logic behind this ruling. I'm just hoping it is being applied forward, and not backward, stripping a fine young shooter of an award well earned under the rules and interpretations in effect at the time of the shoot. It is, absolutely, being applied moving forward. NO ONE could be more proud of RW than those of us at SASS (except maybe Colt!)... we would never dream of revoking- or even questioning- a title that was earned outright with his level of skill and hardwork under the guidelines at the time. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 MM, could you clarify whether a Buck shooting for overall can shoot 22s or do they have to shoot 32 caliber or larger pistols and rifle as in other categories? Reading the new wording it could be grey to some including myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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