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Head Space on an 1866 Yellowboy


Rance - SASS # 54090

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I shoot an 1866 Yellowboy in 38 special.. 1st or 2nd. generation short stroke..

 

I've seen on the wire where "Head Space" is a critical factor when installing a new bolt.

I've seen folks give the information on what head space should be and how to check it..

 

I realize that a gunsmith is probably going to have to do this job..

 

But.. How is the head space adjusted on this rifle or a '73 for that matter..

All internal parts are mechanical with no adjustments..

 

Rance <_<

Just wonderin' :blush: Thanks :)

Thinkin' I've got a little too much :mellow:

Info furnished says (as I remember) around .005..

I'm running around .0.008-.009 on 3 different cases checked.

Only had calipers to check so forgive me please :)

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I think you might be off by one place in those measurements .... maybe ?

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Headspace is most easily adjusted on a toggle link gun by measuring how much you need in the way of adjustment, then trading out the toggle links for a longer set (to reduce headspace). If the gun has been short stroked, most of the link makers have longer links available. You need to talk with the guys whose links are in the gun. VTI has longer links for non-short stroked guns, sometimes.

 

Or, someone like Pioneer Gun Works can machine a set to a special length.

 

First, though, the gunsmith should check that you don't just have a bent lever. Much cheaper to bend it back into the correct shape!

 

Now, if you really wanted to get expensive, you could build up the bolt face with weld or a silver soldered shim. That would be a lot of hand fitting and smoothing, and expensive. And a longer tab and longer firing pin, and it's the HARD way to do it. Or, you might even be able to set the barrel back - also expensive.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Thanks Garrison Joe..

You always give a reply a simple cowboy can understand..

 

My short stroke toggle links are probably 7-8 years old.. they aren't bent..

and I just imagine the original gunsmith that installed them has no idea of which brand they are..

There are no markings on them.. just a couple little punch dots..

And I imagine at the age of them.. the supplier wouldn't replace them anyhow.. and I wouldn't expect them to..

 

but..

 

How would a feller know of what length of toggle (if I were to have them replaced) to get?

OAL from end to end??

OAL from end of toggle slot to end of toggle slot??

OAL from front center pinpoint to rear center pinpoint??

We're talking just very few thousanths here.. :blush:

 

Rance <_<

Thinkin' if I wanted to have them replaced :blush:

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Garrison Joe nailed it. Just one tiny problem. There aren't any parts available for 1st or 2d gen SS kits. That was a long time back and no one is making stuff for their first attempts. I'd personally suggest you get a new SS Kit, check the head space and go from there. Optimum head space is about .004 +/- .001 Your head space of .008/.009 is at the far end of what will fire reliably. Pick a maker, Ottaway Smith, Pioneer or Cowboys and Indian, give them a call for the availability of different length of links and go for it. Much much more reasonable in price than setting the barrel back or welding one up.

 

Coffinmaker

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Punch dots? Sounds like Cowboys and Indian marks. If you took a few pictures of the links, sent them to Jim Bowie, he might just have links that are long enough. Always worth a try.

 

Or, just get a new short stroke set and fit 'em. If they turn out too short, the supplier will be able to swap for a longer set of links, usually at no charge.

 

Good luck, GJ

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The correct way if links aren't available is to set the barrel back. Not a big deal and not all that expensive.

 

BUT, if your headspace is .009, you are well within "normal" range for these guns. If you are having misfires and it isn't a light hammer spring, then you can take a little off the front of the mushroom on the firing pin and extend the firing pin further into the gun.

 

If no problems experienced, don't mess with it. .009" is good to go.

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Punch dots? Sounds like Cowboys and Indian marks. If you took a few pictures of the links, sent them to Jim Bowie, he might just have links that are long enough. Always worth a try.

 

Or, just get a new short stroke set and fit 'em. If they turn out too short, the supplier will be able to swap for a longer set of links, usually at no charge.

 

Good luck, GJ

Yup, cowboys and indian uses a series of little black dots to tell them what size links are in the gun, I think they have three different ones. If you call them and tell them how many dots they can tell you which ones they are.....................Doc

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Howdy, Pard,

When you say you have .008-.009" of headspace, are you referring to the distance between the bolt face and the bottom of the rim cut in the rear end of the barrel, or the distance from the bolt face to the rear of the cartridge with the thinnest rim? If you are getting misfires with whatever you've got, then you need to correct the problem as outlined by others here. If not, then don't worry about it. It is slightly tougher to correct headspace problems with a straight-sided cartridge by adjusting your sizing die, but if the brass does require resizing to chamber, you might try backing off the sizing die until you can just chamber a round with a little "feel". Might work, might not. Would be much easier to take care of with a .44-40 due to the bottleneck.

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The correct way if links aren't available is to set the barrel back. Not a big deal and not all that expensive.

 

BUT, if your headspace is .009, you are well within "normal" range for these guns. If you are having misfires and it isn't a light hammer spring, then you can take a little off the front of the mushroom on the firing pin and extend the firing pin further into the gun.

 

If no problems experienced, don't mess with it. .009" is good to go.

Thanks Manatee....

I ain't having any missfires... guns running good...

 

It's just that everyone on the wire say the head space ought to be .005

I checked mine and it wasn't.. so.. worrying insued...

I have been having the issue of the little tab breaking off the bottom of the bolt..

The original one last for 7 years... replaced it last May with new model from VTI...

and the new one broke off this April..

Thought head space might be the culprit

 

I think I'll take your advise..

Appreciate your reply

 

Rance <_<

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Timing is the issue if you are breaking bolt tabs, not headspace.

 

.003" to .005" is a pretty good measure for high power rifle cartridges. You can get away with more in a 73 which isn't made to handle those pressures anyway.

 

Have someone check your timing if you're not sure how it should be done.

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Timing is the issue if you are breaking bolt tabs, not headspace.

 

.003" to .005" is a pretty good measure for high power rifle cartridges. You can get away with more in a 73 which isn't made to handle those pressures anyway.

 

Have someone check your timing if you're not sure how it should be done.

 

Like I said.. the original lasted about 7 years.. the new VTI.. lasted one year..

just put another new VTI in last night

 

as per your last statement..

I'll have someone.. cuz' I'm not :blush:

 

Thanks again Manatee..

Rance <_<

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