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I just got the April Chronicle and always read Tex's editorial first. I know a lot of you haven't received it yet, but in his editorial he describes a new category system they are instituting at EOT this year. They will have 40 categories with a requirement that in order for a category to be "official" for this year's EOT, it has to have ten shooters (five for "protected" ladies categories and not counting kid categories) registered in that category by June 1 and no one will be allowed to switch categories after that date. Very interesting. What do you all think about the basic idea?

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Just when are the WB planning on letting everyone know who are and will be registering for EOT this year? I already registered and have not heard a word. So, if a category is not 'official', what are you.... unofficial? Does that mean no award potential or recognition? More info would be nice to go out to everyone and be noted to those that register so you don't travel all the way to EOT for a 'surprise'. :mellow:

 

One other inconvenient truth: if you are not informed until after June 1 that your category is 'not official', and you decide not to compete, NO refund for EOT after June 1. So..........if you are told on June 1 that your category is not official, you cannot get a refund AND you cannot switch categories.

 

Never heard of potential for poor marketing. I have gone to annual matches where they have said 'if there are less than X number of people in a category, then no awards made ---- or maybe just for 1st place ---- and they have let folks change categories is that occurs.

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Sounds like another attempt to get a handle on the number of awards they have to buy. Since they gave out over 500 free entrys to EOT, I guess they are trying to be more efficient.

 

It is painful having to throw out a bunch of plaques after a match that nobody won.

 

I hope they figure out a method and let the rest of us know.

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Howdy,

My understanding that has been the rule for WR and EOT, it seems they are now going to enforce it. Glad to see the women only have to have five and no effect for the youngsters.

 

KK

 

PS they will have to let the people who signed up with less than 10 switch.

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Sounds like another attempt to get a handle on the number of awards they have to buy. Since they gave out over 500 free entrys to EOT, I guess they are trying to be more efficient.

 

It is painful having to throw out a bunch of plaques after a match that nobody won.

 

I hope they figure out a method and let the rest of us know.

 

Five Hunnert freebies??

 

Mine must be in the mail. :rolleyes:

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Lame, in a big way! This is the World Championship. They should recognize every official category listed in the rule book, regardless of the number of people that sign up. Same for WR.

 

If there are categories that don't have "enough" shooters (whatever that means), then maybe those categories should be eliminated?

 

Every official category should be recognized at the worlds!

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Lame, in a big way! This is the World Championship. They should recognize every official category listed in the rule book, regardless of the number of people that sign up. Same for WR.

 

If there are categories that don't have "enough" shooters (whatever that means), then maybe those categories should be eliminated?

 

Every official category should be recognized at the worlds!

 

 

+1 This is Sanction Body 101. What are they thinking!? :wacko::blink:

 

Certainly can be different at lesser events, but these are "National/World Class" events. It is either a category and rewarded as such, or it shouldn't be in the rulebook! :ph34r:

 

Harvey

Who runs a national sanctioning body in another competitive sport - and would be ousted in five seconds if we tried to pull this. :blink:

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So I looked up last years results and the 2 catagories from last year would be not honored are Grand Dames and Ladies Frontier Cartridge Duelist. There were 2 grand dames and 4 LFC Duelists. I am signed up for LFC Gunfighter(there were none last year) and so I will probably have to change but if there are not enough LFC duelists I will either have to shoot smokeless or 2 handed which I have not done in almost a year. This is very unfair to us ladies. We are only talking 2 catagories. They should recognize them ALL. This seems like they should have made this decision months ago for people to maybe have put a 2nd option on the sheet or to be aware that they were doing this this year. Is is really fair to put the grand dames down to Silver Senior? I do not think so.

 

Not a fan that is for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Painted Filly

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The lovely and talented Miss Filly makes a good point. Based on last year, the new rule eliminates only two categories. How much cost savings is there in that?

I also agree with those who said that for the National and World Championships, EVERY category in the book should be recognized. I can see not wanting to award every shooter in a category when there are so few, BUT, ya gotta award first place even if there is only one person in the category.

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I'm only in this sport since 2007 and have shot only one class since I signed up. That class is Frontier Cartridge. I have never changed my class at any match.

If only 9 people shoot that class then I would not attend. I understand the principle behind the choice of awarding classes when no one else shows up but if a person can show that he or she has shot at least X number of matches in that class then they should be allowed to shoot.

We have one shooter who waits until he gets to the match to decide his class. He looks over the sign in sheet and which ever class is empty, he enters that one. His awards are for shooting against himself.

This could turn out to be very unfair to those who shoot fair and always in the same classes. You travel 1500 miles and find that all the ammo you brought is worthless, that's not thinking out the problems you are imposing on the members.

The members should have some sort of input into this as it could cause many to not go to the big matches for a SURPRISE!!

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Just goes to show that we have way too many categories. 40 categories is just crazy. That's ten times as many as when I started.

 

LD is right!

 

I looked it up.

 

When he started the only categories were:

Male and female Neanderthal

and

Male and female Homo Erectus

 

:P

Possum

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I wish that I would learn not to open threads like this.

I feel that the Wild Bunch is trying to incorporate all the classes being shot that are not sanctioned classes, such as

Frontier Cartridge gunfighter and Elder Statesman duelist.

I commend them for their efforts and love to shoot EOT.

If I whined like some of you as a kid, my Dad would have put a knot on my head.

Johnny Meadows

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LD is right!

 

I looked it up.

 

When he started the only categories were:

Male and female Neanderthal

and

Male and female Homo Erectus

 

:P

Possum

 

Yep. Male Neanderthal was me category but I shot it duelist style. Was a wart hog back in them days too. Now I am reduced to two hand grippin' Senior. Gettin' old ain't for sissies but it beats the alternative.

 

Oh, ONE more time people we do NOT shoot in classes.

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Doc Shapiro got it right.

 

Over a period of time, those categories that have few entries will be seen as "easy awards" and will attract more entrants in subsequent years. The number of entrants in each category will balance out over time, if they would just stop trying to micro-manage the number of entries per category.

 

I have never been to End of Trail, but was hoping to go sometime. This lessens the appeal.

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Boy oh boy........

 

I am putting my request in early....... Since this will be my 1st EOT......

 

TO all the "Senior Duelist".......would like to have only 9 others besides myself sign up....that way we can all make it on to the stand.........

 

See - I shot Senior Duelist at WR and came in 11th........so letting all the SD know - only 9 of you can sign up..... :lol:

 

You other 30 some SD's move over to "Duelist" class please.......or FCD....... B)

 

Regards.........Wolf ( who don't care how many....I just like the competition against myself ) Wind-Walker

 

PS: Oh wait.........do they go 15 deep..?? ok..5 more can sign up.... ;)

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Hi Larson,

 

I think it stinks!

 

As my dear friend, Adam Cartwright, said at the Convention last year, "it only takes two to have a competition."

 

Let me get on my soapbox yet again. :rolleyes:

 

In 2005, the TGs voted to have an official category honored if there was only one person in it! It passed 242 to 52, with one abstain. The State and above Match Directors and WB chose to ignore that. If they were going to overrule the TGs vote, the WB should not have allowed it on the agenda.

 

So, if a shooter competes as a FCD all year, including their State, Regional, and WR, and there are only nine signed up for EOT, they are out of luck. That is just wrong!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Hi Larson,

 

I think it stinks!

 

As my dear friend, Adam Cartwright, said at the Convention last year, "it only takes two to have a competition."

 

Let me get on my soapbox yet again. :rolleyes:

 

In 2005, the TGs voted to have an official category honored if there was only one person in it! It passed 242 to 52, with one abstain. The State and above Match Directors and WB chose to ignore that. If they were going to overrule the TGs vote, the WB should not have allowed it on the agenda.

 

So, if a shooter competes as a FCD all year, including their State, Regional, and WR, and there are only nine signed up for EOT, they are out of luck. That is just wrong!

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Sad to say but this is one more example of why SASS should be a .org and not a privately held .com.

Then the TGs vote might actually binding. Or there might be no TGs but real democracy where the unwashed masses would vote directly on all matters.

(And then we would relearn what Winston Churchill said, "democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones we have tried".)

 

 

As Doc Shapiro said in post 11, SASS is the sactioning body that doesn't even recognize all the categories in the world championship. This is inexcusable. But I am only a subscriber and not a TRUE member. Even though I have a card that says I am a member.

 

Just saying my 2 cents worth.

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The number of catagories like the participants is fluid and will change. That's a fact. People will, having had a look at the 'competition' will change to something else. That's a fact, too. Nothing wrong with that! Having been in the position of running a large match, been on my club's board and having had to MAKE the decision to move people against their wishes to another catagory, that isn't easy. Who wants to tell the single or the two Grand Dame's that they're shooting in the 'other'catagory? Not me, even though we said up front that catagories with less than five competitors MAY be asked to move. Same thing goes for the other catagories IMO.

 

While I certainly understand the cost of awards, the work required to juggle forty-something catagories and I mostly agree with Tex's article in the CC, I myself wouldn't want to tell a shooter they had to shoot with younger competition or shoot in a catagory not of their choosing. You plan ahead; take a look at how the catagories are going to fill and take a 'guess' There's always going to be one or two that don't fill as expected or those that have a lot. Make your plans, stick to it and do the best you can.

 

Tex mentioned one catagory that had 83 participants and suggested it be broken down into smaller groups. Would we do the same with Cowboy or Wrangler which are HUGE catagories? Mmm...no. There is a point of dimishing returns when you start to divide the bunch of us into ever smaller groups so everyone 'gets a shot'. Sounds too much like outcome-based education; if you have too many students failing, make the tests easier and totally ignore the fact that the students did or did not grasp the material being taught.

 

There's also the issue of certain groups who are growing but don't get recognized. Senior Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter and so on. When you get enough people in a certain catagory, the match folks ought to think long and hard about adding that for next year.

 

Lastly, the single person who got a buckle in his or her catagory worked just as hard for it as the person in a catagory with five, ten, twenty or fifty people. I say they deserve it! In keeping with our amateur 'bragging rights' roots, I see nothing wrong with that either!

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IF cost of awards is the issue, and please notice I capitalized "IF" because it appears this is an assumption, then the solution is to give timeless awards.

 

Several years ago the Powder Creek Cowboys awarded beautiful cowboy statuettes to category winners at their annual match. Attached to the statuette was an inexpensive tag that identified the award. The little tags would be a tiny percentage of the cost of the statuette, and could be thrown away while saving the statuette for another match if the award could not be presented.

 

The buckles with dates and categories are beautiful and I hope someday to win one, but they are not the only nice award out there.

 

IF this decision is the result of worrying about throwing away money on unclaimed awards, some creative thinking about the awards would be a better solution than forcing competitors out of their preferred category.

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Let's see what Tex is saying:

 

1. The categories are:Buckaroo, Junior, Cowboy, Wrangler, 49'er, Senior, Senior Duelist, Senior Gunfighter, Silver Senior, Elder Statesman, Cattle Baron, Gran Patron, Classic Cowboy, B-Western, Duelist, Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge, FCDuelist, FC Gunfighter, and Frontiersman.

a. Those in Italic and Underlined are age specific

b. Each of the 20 categories has a Ladies counterpart.

 

So far I like it because it has the additional age categories that many of us have asked for as well as FC Gunfighter. I like it!

 

2. Those categories that have 10 registered competitors will be honored. Five for the Ladies. No such requirements for Juniors or Buckaroos.

 

So far nothing out of the ordinary. I like it for a match this size.

 

3. Not 10 folks signing up--will have to change categories.

 

Not unusual or surprising. I like it.

 

4. Sign up by June 1 or pay penalty for late sign up.

 

Not unusual or surprising. I like it.

 

5. No category changes after June 1.

 

Not unusual or surprising. I like it.

 

 

Bottom line - great move by the Wild Bunch. I take my hat off to them.

 

Okb

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Winning a World Championship when there are only one or two people shooting in my class would give me less of a sense of accomplishment than shooting in a class with 10 or more. Having ten required in the men's classes and 5 in the lady's classes and winning that class shows an accomplishment. Just my feelings but I would rather change classes than shoot with one or two in my class.

Johnny Meadows

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If the number of competitors in a category is less than a minimum why not treat the victory as a level smaller victory instead of as a world title.

At least in terms of the size of the trophy/buckle/plaque/ribbon etc. If first place in a packed category gets a trophy and others get a buckle then perhaps first place of smaller categories should get only a buckle.

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Winning a World Championship when there are only one or two people shooting in my class would give me less of a sense of accomplishment than shooting in a class with 10 or more. Having ten required in the men's classes and 5 in the lady's classes and winning that class shows an accomplishment. Just my feelings but I would rather change classes than shoot with one or two in my class.

Johnny Meadows

 

 

+1 Feel that same way.

 

If you can not get atleast that many in a category at a match that big???

Should it even be one.

 

And what is so wrong with having a large number of shooter in a category in a large match????

To me. They should be large. Not ya got a competition that means something.

Like a World Championship should be.

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If it was just for me I want a Silver Senior Gunfighter category,but if they wanted to put me in Gunfighter that is ok but I want to be on Possum's posse,I get to watch him and it makes me do things right not fast just right,wish he was there with me saterday,I would not have gotten a stage DQ.Possum,I know big steps.

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