dutch bear Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Howdy A sad day for cowboy action shooting Last Thursday our justice minister has send a proposal to parlement that has a lot of new restrictions for shooting sports in the Netherlands(active participation in shooting sport is the only reason someone can own a gun in The Netherlands) THE GOVERMENT WANTS • that al shooting sports where a timer is integral part of the scoring are outlawed from the 1 of May, • shooting sports can’t have any movement on the part of the shooter • and we are only allowed to shoot at the classic paper targets used in the static /Olympic shooting sports expectations are that about 80% of parlement will vote for the law so in all probability all dynamic shooting sports will be outlawed from the first of may. An outraged Dutch Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 A sad day indeed. What is their reasoning? Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Very sad to hear this dutch bear - I hope that reason comes forwrad and that this action is not taken. IF this unfortunately turn of events happens...I bet that if you ever can get tto the states or maybe some other European countries you will be welcome with open arms and anyone will let you use their firearms to participate in a CAS match. Best of luck for the future pard. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Dutch, Really tough to take. Sure was fun to shoot with you last year here in Cortez and thanks for the Christmas present you sent, we enjoyed it. Hope to see you and your wife again. You can always shoot here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is where the US may be headed given four more years of the current administration's direction toward European style socialist "nanny-state" government where the government will take care of all our needs and prevent us from hurting ourselves funded by our own tax dollars. I'm sorry for you and your pards' Dutch but glad you "sounded the alarm". Wake up America, "the writing is on the wall"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't know the mindset of politicians over there, but many in this county would hestitate to do something like that since the backlash would threaten their job. Only the usual suspects (Pelosi, etc)would have the nerve or the bal*s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I don't know the mindset of politicians over there, but many in this county would hestitate to do something like that since the backlash would threaten their job. Only the usual suspects (Pelosi, etc)would have the nerve or the bal*s. Don't be so sure . . . what do you think Attorney General Eric Holder was trying to do with "Fast and Furious"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 CHANGE! CHANGE! CHANGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is why no politician should ever be allowed to stay in office for more then one short term. To long a stay will create mischief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Sounds like something the Obama administration would do, get you with the fine print instead of going directly at you. Have you sent Parliment a video of a match to show how this wording would directly effect our sport? Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is indeed very sad. There is no doubt that such action in the US has a lot of support from not only many politicians, but from a large portion of the population. Like it or not these misguided groups are slowly chipping away at our rights. Only a strong and unified front will prevent them from eventually winning this battle. We must be willing to put at least as much of our money and time on the line as the anti gunners are. How much do you spend on primers, bullets, powder, guns etc, etc, etc each year? .... NOW, how much do you spend on fighting those who would deprive you of your gun rights? I'll bet that it pales compared to the former, if any at all. If we sit on the side line and do nothing, expecting others will hold them off, we will wake up someday to find that we have lost the battle. It's time to put our money where our mouth is. Send $50 to the NRA.... nope, I don't agree with everything they do either, and they drive me nuts with their flyers and phone calls, but they are the most formidable gun rights protection organization out there. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is indeed very sad. There is no doubt that such action in the US has a lot of support from not only many politicians, but from a large portion of the population. Like it or not these misguided groups are slowly chipping away at our rights. Only a strong and unified front will prevent them from eventually winning this battle. We must be willing to put at least as much of our money and time on the line as the anti gunners are. How much do you spend on primers, bullets, powder, guns etc, etc, etc each year? .... NOW, how much do you spend on fighting those who would deprive you of your gun rights? I'll bet that it pales compared to the former, if any at all. If we sit on the side line and do nothing, expecting others will hold them off, we will wake up someday to find that we have lost the battle. It's time to put our money where our mouth is. Send $50 to the NRA.... nope, I don't agree with everything they do either, and they drive me nuts with their flyers and phone calls, but they are the most formidable gun rights protection organization out there. Snakebite Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Over 200 years ago, we fought a revolution to get away from the European mentality, it's time to do it again. Vote early, vote often and vote the bums out. Keep up on current events and don't keep quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Red Ryder Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Dutch Bear, For sure, you and all the fellows Dutch shooters are as usual welcome on our French ranges for shooting CAS as long as you want and need to. I can say for sure it'll be the same in all the other European countries. Your only problem will be training and practice, but I'm certain you'll find a good way to train yourselves to stay in the top or the European shooters. Keep shooting guys and come as long as you need to shoot with us. Curly Red Ryder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo_Sam Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (active participation in shooting sport is the only reason someone can own a gun in The Netherlands) This explains everything. Many European states have laws that restrict using a firearm in any way that could be construed as training for actual combat (for example, I've heard in Germany you are not allowed to shoot a weapon through a window, even a mock one). The sad truth is that they are not free men and are not in a free land. Freedom means not having to explain WHY you own a gun. I don't mean to mock, especially because it is becoming increasingly difficult to say the same in America. -Solo Sam #91319 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six-Shot Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 This is indeed very sad. There is no doubt that such action in the US has a lot of support from not only many politicians, but from a large portion of the population. Like it or not these misguided groups are slowly chipping away at our rights. Only a strong and unified front will prevent them from eventually winning this battle. We must be willing to put at least as much of our money and time on the line as the anti gunners are. How much do you spend on primers, bullets, powder, guns etc, etc, etc each year? .... NOW, how much do you spend on fighting those who would deprive you of your gun rights? I'll bet that it pales compared to the former, if any at all. If we sit on the side line and do nothing, expecting others will hold them off, we will wake up someday to find that we have lost the battle. It's time to put our money where our mouth is. Send $50 to the NRA.... nope, I don't agree with everything they do either, and they drive me nuts with their flyers and phone calls, but they are the most formidable gun rights protection organization out there. I do . . . whenever I can. There are many (some among us) that say "they" will never take our gun rights away . . . "they" only want to go after the "automatic and semi-automatic assault weapons". I say bull_ _ _ _ ! Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Dear Dutch Bear, I'm so sorry to hear this. Will you be able to travel to other countries to shoot? Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four Eyes Henry Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Fortunately we may keep our guns as they can and are used for other shooting disciplines too. For CAS we may have to go abroad. The reason for this is that a certified nutcase was given a license dispite his mental illness and he went crazy, which is very sad ofcourse. He did the shooting with "legally" owned guns but no one can tell what would have happened if he had no license. We had a growing number of people that really enjoyed CAS and it is to bad that this must end this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch bear Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 Dear Dutch Bear, I'm so sorry to hear this. Will you be able to travel to other countries to shoot? Regards, Allie Mo First, thanx for al the support, it is good to hear the support in these hard times yes we can, as four eyes henry points out, we can keep the guns as long as we shoot the historic weapon precision matches(and off course we will, because we don't want to lose our CAS guns) and as i understand our goverment can't forbid us to do something that is legal in the country we do it in(as long as it isn't against international law off course) so we will go back to the USA somwhere in the future to shoot(we had to much fun last year) but not this year, we made the choice to shoot DOT in Hungary this year, and there is no budget for DOT and a couple of US matches grt Dutch Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Man, does that send a cold chill down your spine, or what? Quietly they go into the night. The next time some ignorant person suggests to you that "common sense" gun control is a reasonable idea, or laughs at your "slippery slope" objections, remember the history of European incremental gun bans. I feel like I am watching the slow and painful demise of Liberty. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 • that al shooting sports where a timer is integral part of the scoring are outlawed from the 1 of May, • shooting sports can’t have any movement on the part of the shooter • and we are only allowed to shoot at the classic paper targets used in the static /Olympic shooting sports expectations are that about 80% of parlement will vote for the law so in all probability all dynamic shooting sports will be outlawed from the first of may. An outraged Dutch Bear So, what if the matches were all head to head elimination type competition with no movement. There would be no need then for a timer. As fr the targets I would paste the paper targets to steel plates. Smokestack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash LaRue Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 nope, I don't agree with everything they do either, and they drive me nuts with their flyers and phone calls, but they are the most formidable gun rights protection organization out there. Snakebite [/size][/b] I'm glad to know I'm not the only one annoyed by the flyers and phone calls. As for Europe, I considered retiring from the Army and staying in Germany. The taxes and gun laws were the major deciding factors in moving back to the U.S. It's a shame, Europe is beautiful, and I love the people, but the government is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash LaRue Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Man, does that send a cold chill down your spine, or what? Quietly they go into the night. The next time some ignorant person suggests to you that "common sense" gun control is a reasonable idea, or laughs at your "slippery slope" objections, remember the history of European incremental gun bans. I feel like I am watching the slow and painful demise of Liberty. LL Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 First, thanx for al the support, it is good to hear the support in these hard times yes we can, as four eyes henry points out, we can keep the guns as long as we shoot the historic weapon precision matches(and off course we will, because we don't want to lose our CAS guns) and as i understand our goverment can't forbid us to do something that is legal in the country we do it in(as long as it isn't against international law off course) so we will go back to the USA somwhere in the future to shoot(we had to much fun last year) but not this year, we made the choice to shoot DOT in Hungary this year, and there is no budget for DOT and a couple of US matches grt Dutch Bear Hi Bear, Although Western 3 Gun uses a timer, they also use cardboard targets and score bonuses for shooting inside the circles. I've also heard of a club scoring first based on hits then on time as a tie breaker. I don't particularly like this; but, it could be adapted to your need to not use a timer. I hope you can figure out a way to "keep the old west alive" in the Netherlands. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 T. Jefferson is an excellent source of inspiration. One of my favorites is: "In matters of style, swim with the current; In matters of principle, stand like a rock." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Well said! Hey!!! Cousin LaRue!!! You must be from the branch of the family that fled south during the Rebellion!!!!! Someday, we need a reunion of all the LaRues in SASS!!! LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Be sure to take photos! I haven't seen Lash in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellgate #3302 L Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Chicago, Illinois has very STRICT gun control laws and in ONE WEEKEND there were 49 gang related shootings. So much for crime control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Howdy A sad day for cowboy action shooting Last Thursday our justice minister has send a proposal to parlement that has a lot of new restrictions for shooting sports in the Netherlands(active participation in shooting sport is the only reason someone can own a gun in The Netherlands) THE GOVERMENT WANTS • that al shooting sports where a timer is integral part of the scoring are outlawed from the 1 of May, • shooting sports can't have any movement on the part of the shooter • and we are only allowed to shoot at the classic paper targets used in the static /Olympic shooting sports expectations are that about 80% of parlement will vote for the law so in all probability all dynamic shooting sports will be outlawed from the first of may. An outraged Dutch Bear Time to move to the good ol' USA, lots of good deals on houses everywhere! We always want new shooters and good SASS people! Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 So, what if the matches were all head to head elimination type competition with no movement. There would be no need then for a timer. As fr the targets I would paste the paper targets to steel plates. Smokestack Reasonable and practical. A stroke of genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy Whiskers Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 It is a sad day, but lets get some perspective. If it true that the vast majority of the government will vote for this, then it must be popular in the country. It's their county and if that is the way they want to play it, fine. It has no effect on CAS worldwide. Contrary to the gloom and doom for guns that comes from the right wing, there has been nor will there be any wide spread move towards gun restictions. Obama has been in office for 3 years and there has been no move by him no matter if the Holder would like to see it, he doesn't make the laws and there is no large constituance for restrictions. It is all hype and fear mongering. Locally, up in Georga, a little county passed a law saying that you cannot shoot a gun before 10 AM and that included the range where the cowboys shoot. This is the kind of gun control that the right needs to focus on. Where were the gun rights types in that county? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 It is a sad day, but lets get some perspective. If it true that the vast majority of the government will vote for this, then it must be popular in the country. It's their county and if that is the way they want to play it, fine. It has no effect on CAS worldwide. Contrary to the gloom and doom for guns that comes from the right wing, there has been nor will there be any wide spread move towards gun restictions. Obama has been in office for 3 years and there has been no move by him no matter if the Holder would like to see it, he doesn't make the laws and there is no large constituance for restrictions. It is all hype and fear mongering. Locally, up in Georga, a little county passed a law saying that you cannot shoot a gun before 10 AM and that included the range where the cowboys shoot. This is the kind of gun control that the right needs to focus on. Where were the gun rights types in that county? Somehow, I think that's plainly backwards. The President has done nothing to reassure me that his Administration holds any respect whatsoever for the 2nd Amendment, or that with the election over, there will be no meaningful restraint on his prior committments to implement further restrictions on guns, ammo and gun owners. Urban Democratic voters, soccer moms, anti-gun activists, residents of high crime aras, and folks of all stripes who harbor the ill-informed hope that banning guns will end violence and crime - all form a substantial constituency in favor of gun control. And they contribute money to certain politicians to press those beliefs. Mr. Obama does, in fact, "make the laws". Just last week, the Wall Street Journal and The Boston Globe both reported that the present Administration, contrary to their criticism of the Bush era use of executive orders, has itself used such unfettered orders to accomplish goals blocked in the Congress. The President has used recess appointments, even when the Senate was not actually in recess, to install agencies heads whose appointments were blocked in Congress. Executive agencies (including BATFE) have implemented regulations that far exceed their Congressional mandates, such as that which eventually required Southwest gun dealers to report multiple sales of semi-auto long guns, creating a defacto "Federal list" of gun buyers. In essence, the President, through executive orders and control of Executive agencies, can (and has) made laws. Baseless "doom and gloom"??? For me, the turning point in my uncertainty about the actual intent of this Administration came with the revelations regarding "Fast and Furious". Added to earlier comments to Brady folks about proceeding against guns "under the radar", I have no real doubt that, without concern over the next election cycle, a re-elected President would move rapidly and decisively to implement his previously-promised additional restrictions. At the least, we would see the Clinton gun ban come back, if not more. As for where us "gun rights types" were in your GA county scenario, I can't believe that you seriously would compare a local noise ordinance with national gun bans. I would hope that local sporting clubs and gun owners would stand up to be heard on such an ordinance, and if not, that their local and state organizations would get imnvolved. I would also hope that you and your local cowboy shooters stood up and worked with local agencies to produce an agreement that all could live with. We all face these kinds of issues, but they do not represent, in my view, the most serious challanges to gun rights, and certainly do not rise to the level of a President who is hostile to the very existence of an armed population. I'm not certain whether your post was serious, or meant to stir the pot. I'm no "hair-on-fire, the End of the World is coming" right wing gun activist. I often wince at NRA pronouncements that seem to exceed the known world of facts. But I have seen, in my own state, what happens when we fail to guard against executive action that ultimately bans guns. If I could in a practical and persuasive way, I would run down every street in America, screaming my lungs out, and warning that this Administration intends great harm to our 2nd Amendment rights. That ain't doom and gloom from the right; that's my view based on the available facts. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Howdy Dutch & Justice Ann, was a hoot meeting & shooting with you both in U.S.A. last year...that's terrible news mate, I sincerely hope that everything goes well for you. No gun owner in ANY' country is safe from these morons who collectively haven't got a brain between them.!!!!! Regards from 'Painted Mohawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I'm glad to know I'm not the only one annoyed by the flyers and phone calls. As for Europe, I considered retiring from the Army and staying in Germany. The taxes and gun laws were the major deciding factors in moving back to the U.S. It's a shame, Europe is beautiful, and I love the people, but the government is crazy. The governments are the people so beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jeweler jim Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 Chicago, Illinois has very STRICT gun control laws and in ONE WEEKEND there were 49 gang related shootings. So much for crime control. My son (in Med school or he wouldn't be living there) lives in Mayor Daley's neighborhood and recently had a stray bullet through the a rear porch window. No one injured accept the window and as this such a safe neighborhood he didn't bother to call the cops. I doubt they would have bothered to respond to it anyway. The weekend you refer to (I believe) over a dozen died as a result and you have to admire how well the gun control in the city worked for them. jj who strongly prefers not going into the city... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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