Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 On the Justified thread, seems a few folks have a "laughable" opinion about FBI agents... I've only met a couple, and they seemed fairly serious about their jobs. In TV and movies, they seem to get some really bad reviews - overly intense, haughty, domineering, conceited, one-way dealers, etc. So, for those of you who have had more dealings, what's the truth? (I keep thinking about Mr. Black and Mr. White from the first Diehard movie...) Fill us in... LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I've only met a couple, and they seemed fairly serious about their jobs. In TV and movies, they seem to get some really bad reviews - overly intense, haughty, domineering, conceited, one-way dealers, etc. LL Decades ago I had dealings on a case when I was a Deputy, yes they take their job very serious, and for good reasons. After the job, had pleasure of unwinding with them, and their plain folks who enjoyed a good meal, drink, and joking around, even jabbing each other. As to domineering, once their assigned, its their case, some may feel their domineering, I never felt that. Conceited, one-way, never, they worked with us as we did with them.MT http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=us%20marshals%20duties%20and%20responsibilities&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmarshals.gov%2Fmontage%2Findex.html&ei=Q7VxT8G1OIWutweY0_XSDw&usg=AFQjCNEavKluh-3Se4hm92Ti638kDRxBoQ http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=fbi%20responsibilities&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fbi.gov%2Fabout-us%2Ffaqs&ei=sb9xT9LVFZSCtgeAntD5Dw&usg=AFQjCNGfNCBvQQIVwvxsgP9r5V1NSt29IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I never worked with any but I did know one. There was an action pistol group at my F&G club. Bruce would come there on Mondays and teach techniques. The last time I went there was 9/10/2001. He was running a scenario where we were in an airplane. We had to run 50 yards (to get our hearts and lungs pumping) stop and make head shots on three terrorists. I tell you what. The next morning that felt creepy as Hell and I never went back. However, Bruce was a nice guy offduty and very serious about teaching firearm techniques to ordinary people who were serious about learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama Red Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 The ones I worked with were fine examples of LEO's - without exception. Worked with them very closely from 9-11 until I retired 7-1-02 and developed close relationships with several of the agents. Conceited or one-way? I never saw that. The SAIC and three other agents attended my retirement that summer. I didn't know they would be there and I considered it an honor that they were. Just remember - its Hollyweird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They are just like any "group" of people. Some nice, some not so nice. I became friends with one and we went on fishing trips together. One was alittle full of himself and wouldn't talk to you if you weren't a detective or had rank. Most are easy to get along with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 They are just like any "group" of people. Some nice, some not so nice. I became friends with one and we went on fishing trips together. One was alittle full of himself and wouldn't talk to you if you weren't a detective or had rank. Most are easy to get along with. The problem is not with individual agents but with the agency in general. Most agents I've known were good guys, with a few notable exceptions. The FBI as an organization tends to be a little heavy handed with local law enforcement. D.C. can get to be a pita running operations from a thousand miles away. Not unusual with federal agencies. But they are much better now than in years past. One of the best instructors I ever had was a retired agent and Pearl Harbor vet. One of the biggest dumbasses I ever met was a SAC. And btw, when I wrote "FBI agents - Weenies" on the other thread I was referring to the agents on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 My observation is that they are pros at collecting information but are pretty much incapable of handling on view arrest situations. In Chicago, the CPD processes bank Robbery arrests and then turns the entire case over to the FEEBS to prosecute. They seem incapable of making an arrest without an 18 month investigation complete with wiretaps, surveillance videos, sworn affidavits and a warrant signed by a Federal magistrate. Then they go out with their eqivalent of a SWAT team to pick up a guy for transportation of a pound of weed.....Plus, it don't hurt that you can pick and choose what cases you wish to prosecute. That's why they have such impressive conviction ratios. That aint being a Law Enforcement Officer..... They are positive that they are the finest Law Enforcement Agency in the world but truth be told, they couldn't find their asses in a dark room with both hands..... Our last Superintendent of Police was a retired FEEB. He would have to improve to be called a joke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 In the movie "Hopscotch", Ned Beatty's character has an expansion of the acronym FBI - "F&%&%%^& Ballbusting Imbeciles". The only FBI agent I have ever known is a very good friend and now has a PHD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 My observation is that they are pros at collecting information but are pretty much incapable of handling on view arrest situations. In Chicago, the CPD processes bank Robbery arrests and then turns the entire case over to the FEEBS to prosecute. They seem incapable of making an arrest without an 18 month investigation complete with wiretaps, surveillance videos, sworn affidavits and a warrant signed by a Federal magistrate. While I have two cousins that are retired agents, I don't know a whole lot of firsthand info except as family they are pretty good guys. I have several friends in LE down on the MS Gulf Coast who have stated pretty much what you post. The reasoning I am given is because of the politics involved with upper echelon FBI. My friends don't seem to mind as it gets the criminals off the streets longer with FED charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finagler 6853 Life Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Had a college friend that intended to join the FBI back in the late 70s. Lost touch with him so I can't say for sure what ever became of him. Met one real FBI agent back in about 85 or 86. He was doing routine follow ups on Soviet (Belarus) "visitors" that got permission to venture outside the Milwaukee metro area. He was strickly business until the job was complete. We talked for a short while and he seemed like real people. It was the first time I had come in contact with someone carrying concealed. A .357 Python as I recall. He didn't show it but said it was there. He looked like he could have played pro ball as a defensive back. Other than that I try not to give law enforcement cause to have a "conversation" with me. Yes sir. No sir. Thank you very much sir. Stay under the radar as much as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Had a neighbor, many years ago, who was an agent assigned to the NY office. Very nice guy. Was assigned to the HRT and moved down to the VA/DC area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 They are positive that they are the finest Law Enforcement Agency in the world but truth be told, they couldn't find their asses in a dark room with both hands..... That's been my experience with them. There are some pretty good agents but as an agency, the FBI is the most incompetent bunch I've ever seen. They dropped the ball on several big cases my unit was involved in. We just made it a policy that if we get into something big, we'll work it, take the charges and put the dirtbags in jail. If the FBI want to pursue prosecution, well, they can have a copy of the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Another incident.... I was assigned to a "Dog Bite" incident at a hospital when I was a Patrolman. I arrived and went to the E.R. and got the chart to begin the report. Then I went to the examination room to interview the victim. That's when I learned that the victim was an FBI Special Agent. he went to a house to serve a federal Subpoena. The guy's dog attacked the Agent and bit him. I asked the Agent if he shot the dog and he said "You can do that?" I looked over and on a table with his clothing sat his revolver, a Smith and Wesson Model 13.... Round butt, 3 inch barrel fixed sight. Nice duty weapon. It had fur growing on it between the dust and rust... Kinda makes you wonder...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Somewhere I heard once that most field agents of FBI had to have some law type degree. Is that true? or just urban legend/bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Had a patient that was FBI. He was a nice fellow, but always seemed to be a little uptight. Just a personal observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Sullivan Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Somewhere I heard once that most field agents of FBI had to have some law type degree. Is that true? or just urban legend/bs. That was an image that was cultivated. From time to time, recruiting emphasis was placed on those with a law degree (not necessarily admitted to the Bar) and on Accountants. But most of the Bu guys I worked with were not lawyers or accountants. Overall, I would have to draw a clear distinction between the official "Bureau" and the men and women who worked there, and not all of those carried creds. FIrst in my twenty-five years with a different federal outfit, when we worked with the Bureau, they were usually by statute, the lead agency. I.e., by law the Department of Justice had primary investigative and prosecutive jurisdiction. In the majority of the cases I was involved in, the local Bureau was required to obtain DoJ authorization to open a full field investigation and the Justice Department lawyers (both within Main Justice, the various Offices of the U.S. Attorneys, and those within the Bureau) were judged and promoted on their conviction rates. Frequently the Bureau would work with us to the point we were able to perfect the case and satisfy Justice that they could secure a conviction, at which point DOJ and the Bureau would exercise that primary jurisdiction. In many cases, the Bureau agents would work along side us to that point, doing the sorts of things they can do (image is a powerful tool) and we would do those things we could do. If it was determined by DoJ that a case stood a better chance of successful prosecution under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (for military offenders) then Justice would waive prosecutive jurisdiction and the Bureau guys and gals would continue to work jointly with us and even testify at Courts Martial. Like any organization, the Bureau has its own culture and heritage. A large number of special agents will work only a few years , usually in their "first office" until they can hire on somewhere else. This appeared to me to be particularly true with those with law degrees. Many try for the local AUSA (Assistant U.S. Attorney) jobs or go into private industry. I was told almost forty years ago that a lot of "former special agents" couldn't investigate their way into a pay toilet with a bag of quarters. (Those that stayed, sure could do the job, if my experience is any indicator.) And there were enough of my own colleagues and other officers who met the same descriptives. Individually, you got a mixed bag, just like any other bunch of folks. I recall the lead FBI guy on what would be my first successful investigation and prosecution of an espionage case. That agent, some years older than me, with strands of gray hair, coached me through the steps assuring me that he had vast experience doing this (investigating espionage.) He was indeed very good and worked well with others. Years later, after he retired he wrote and published a book about a different, headline-making case in which he was the key and lead investigator that broke up a truly MAJOR espionage ring. In the book he admitted the case we worked together on was his first espionage case. He also was scathing about the competence of my supervisor on that case and had nothing good to say about him (or us). I had to agree about my supervisor. To this day, that agent and his two partners in that FCI (foreign counterintelligence) squad are among a very small number of folks I would want covering my back going in somewhere. Other folks, particularly those who spend their careers close to the Hoover building, may be more typical of the stodgy, uncooperative image of the "fan belt inspectors" of derogatatory lore. But Potomac fever infects most folks who breathe the rarified air of that mysterious land known as "inside the Beltway." I saw it and was part of it during my own years at our headquarters. Two really good friends were with the local Division at my last posting before retirement. One as he neared retirement always answered the usual question of "What are you going to do when you retire?" with the laconic answer "I'm gonna work at Home Depot and help folks." And by golly, he did. His partner and I still correspond just about daily via emails, passing jokes and good news. Both of those gents retired when they were eligible and were frustrated by what they called "Teenager Squad Supes." You know the types, the guys and gals who wore their Bu badges on their belts and always threw their suitcoats back to show the badges off. (See Whambaugh's "Choir Boys" for more descriptive information of the type.) One of my best friends, another guy I want covering my six, left my agency after a long, tiring battle with one or our HQ troglydites and spend the rest of his career with the Bureau and did very well. He is still the same, genuine guy. My personal bottom line is "The Bureau" is the agency every LEO loves to hate. Just about every local LE Agency I worked with could tell you its own version of the "Three Dog Story" told about the FBI. Individual Bureau agents are just like the rest of us. Most want to do the job they are paid to do and do to the best of their ability. It's the smaller number who define "Butt Heads" for the rest of us. And someday, ask me to show you my copy of the Oxford English Dictionary, where I created a definition for "Asshole" and affixed a photo of my own then-boss above the pseudo entry. All opinions expressed are my own and do not EVER reflect the positions or opinions of any of my employers, past present or I hope, future.... Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited by law. Not available in Alaska or Hawaii. You must be over 18 years of age or an art student. This posting contains comments and ideas known to the State of California to cause appoplexy in pucker-butts.You quote me, and I will deny I ever said any of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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