PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 ... Edit: Isn't having an empty in the 97 chamber and then loading two more in mazagine a violation? Meaning, you would have three in the gun and SASS only allows you to load a maximum of two. Penalty would be a MS or a P. Which? NO violation...NO penalty. • Pump and lever action shotguns are allowed to load no more than two live rounds at a time in the main match stages unless specified in the stage description. In team events, shotguns may be loaded to their maximum magazine capacity. SHB p.11 Safe for movement shotgun in hand only• Action open, round in chamber or on carrier • Hammer(s) fully down on empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed. 12. The shooter with firearm in hand shall never be allowed to move with a live round under a cocked hammer. Movement is defined the same as “traveling” in basketball. Once the firearm is cocked, one foot must remain in place on the ground until the firearm is made safe. This means, on revolvers, you may move, restage, or re-holster when the hammer is down on an empty chamber or expended case. You may move with a rifle or shotgun when the action is open, hammer(s) down on empty chamber(s) or expended case(s). RO1 p.17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 NO violation...NO penalty. SHB p.11 RO1 p.17 Thanks, your reference to SHB p.11 answered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Edit: Isn't having an empty in the 97 chamber and then loading two more in mazagine a violation? Meaning, you would have three in the gun and SASS only allows you to load a maximum of two. Penalty would be a MS or a P. Which? No call, rules now allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My family has owned the Bar 3 Ranch for over 30 years.... I was raised in Red River County Texas for the most part of my life and I don't want to give any part of this Ranch to some Lawyer of any kind for some frivolous Law suit that was brought in front of the Court system. I have witnessed accidental discharges from falling cowboys while trying to load there shotguns and negotiating a terrible come apart all during the time they were falling to the ground. We live on a rough terrain ranch. The last drough made the ground even worse,,,, we tried to smooth up most of the shooting lines with gravel or with a boardwalk area. That's all we can afford at this time.. So if our ground is to rough to run upon by all means PLEASE WALK...If the targets are to far --take good aim. If the black land is to wet or slick from the rain--stay on the gravel..Folks its easy, when you go to someone else's range, use common courtesy,,,Play by there rules... Cowboys will act in kind return when they show up at your range.....It's the Range rules. In last words if someone is moving and loading on your range and falls while shooting there shotgun, hope and pray no one tells their family lawyer that they saw this post on the SASS Wire and it could of been prevented.... Who is at fault????? Would you bet your family farm on it????? T-Bone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I know at least three founders of clubs whose lawyers talked them out of even participating due to the risks involved in a shooting sport. There are ways of minimizing risks without becoming an "ex-action" shooting sport, er... game, er... becoming bullseye with pre-1900 guns. Clubs need to be allowed to make their own decision and not suffer criticism over it. Individuals need to take personal responsibility... if you're not able to walk and chew gum, don't load while moving (or even load then move)... I don't care what the rules sez... and if you do, and you need to excercise some uncommon good sense on how fast you're going to try to handle both activities. I'm going to say this without trying to be cruel, that almost every instance I've seen of someone stumbling is from trying to go faster than they're physically able. I don't care how much horsepower you think is under the hood, your Lincoln Town Car ain't a Corvette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My family has owned the Bar 3 Ranch for over 30 years.... I was raised in Red River County Texas for the most part of my life and I don't want to give any part of this Ranch to some Lawyer of any kind for some frivolous Law suit that was brought in front of the Court system. I have witnessed accidental discharges from falling cowboys while trying to load there shotguns and negotiating a terrible come apart all during the time they were falling to the ground. We live on a rough terrain ranch. The last drough made the ground even worse,,,, we tried to smooth up most of the shooting lines with gravel or with a boardwalk area. That's all we can afford at this time.. So if our ground is to rough to run upon by all means PLEASE WALK...If the targets are to far --take good aim. If the black land is to wet or slick from the rain--stay on the gravel..Folks its easy, when you go to someone else's range, use common courtesy,,,Play by there rules... Cowboys will act in kind return when they show up at your range.....It's the Range rules. In last words if someone is moving and loading on your range and falls while shooting there shotgun, hope and pray no one tells their family lawyer that they saw this post on the SASS Wire and it could of been prevented.... Who is at fault????? Would you bet your family farm on it????? T-Bone I wouldn't have any kind of sporting event on my farm, just because of the Lawyers, enviromentalist, and the few sue happy people. I have no problem with going with club rules when there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 None of the clubs around here prohibit loading on the move and in more than fifteen years of competing, I've never seen an incident from the practice. I HATE "plant and poke" (the '87 I shoot is easy to load while moving) but when I play in someone else's backyard and they publicize the rule, I'll play by their rules. Something to consider is that a lot of times movement involves just a couple of steps and nothing approaching actual running-we see a lot of that in the Midwest. I think the plant and poke rule could be applied selectively if a stage design and/or terrain warranted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt Stephen D Hill, SASS #56151 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My family has owned the Bar 3 Ranch for over 30 years.... I was raised in Red River County Texas for the most part of my life and I don't want to give any part of this Ranch to some Lawyer of any kind for some frivolous Law suit that was brought in front of the Court system. I have witnessed accidental discharges from falling cowboys while trying to load there shotguns and negotiating a terrible come apart all during the time they were falling to the ground. We live on a rough terrain ranch. The last drough made the ground even worse,,,, we tried to smooth up most of the shooting lines with gravel or with a boardwalk area. That's all we can afford at this time.. So if our ground is to rough to run upon by all means PLEASE WALK...If the targets are to far --take good aim. If the black land is to wet or slick from the rain--stay on the gravel..Folks its easy, when you go to someone else's range, use common courtesy,,,Play by there rules... Cowboys will act in kind return when they show up at your range.....It's the Range rules. In last words if someone is moving and loading on your range and falls while shooting there shotgun, hope and pray no one tells their family lawyer that they saw this post on the SASS Wire and it could of been prevented.... Who is at fault????? Would you bet your family farm on it????? T-Bone Well said T-Bone!! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I was right there I went in the opposite direction!! Let's say you are shootin' a '97, load on the run stumble and close the action with finger on trigger...BANG!!! Not Safe to load on the run!! IMHO Id have to ask why is your finger on the trigger if your not ready to shoot? Its perfectly safe to load on the run if you follow the common sense rules people learn as kids. Never have your finger on the trigger unless your ready to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My family has owned the Bar 3 Ranch for over 30 years.... I was raised in Red River County Texas for the most part of my life and I don't want to give any part of this Ranch to some Lawyer of any kind for some frivolous Law suit that was brought in front of the Court system. I have witnessed accidental discharges from falling cowboys while trying to load there shotguns and negotiating a terrible come apart all during the time they were falling to the ground. We live on a rough terrain ranch. The last drough made the ground even worse,,,, we tried to smooth up most of the shooting lines with gravel or with a boardwalk area. That's all we can afford at this time.. So if our ground is to rough to run upon by all means PLEASE WALK...If the targets are to far --take good aim. If the black land is to wet or slick from the rain--stay on the gravel..Folks its easy, when you go to someone else's range, use common courtesy,,,Play by their rules... Cowboys will act in kind return when they show up at your range.....It's the Range rules. In last words if someone is moving and loading on your range and falls while shooting there shotgun, hope and pray no one tells their family lawyer that they saw this post on the SASS Wire and it could of been prevented.... Who is at fault????? Would you bet your family farm on it????? T-Bone Yup GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Clayton Conagher #43872 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Id have to ask why is your finger on the trigger if your not ready to shoot? Its perfectly safe to load on the run if you follow the common sense rules people learn as kids. Never have your finger on the trigger unless your ready to shoot. Thats what I was wondering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My family has owned the Bar 3 Ranch for over 30 years.... I was raised in Red River County Texas for the most part of my life and I don't want to give any part of this Ranch to some Lawyer of any kind for some frivolous Law suit that was brought in front of the Court system. I have witnessed accidental discharges from falling cowboys while trying to load there shotguns and negotiating a terrible come apart all during the time they were falling to the ground. We live on a rough terrain ranch. The last drough made the ground even worse,,,, we tried to smooth up most of the shooting lines with gravel or with a boardwalk area. That's all we can afford at this time.. So if our ground is to rough to run upon by all means PLEASE WALK...If the targets are to far --take good aim. If the black land is to wet or slick from the rain--stay on the gravel..Folks its easy, when you go to someone else's range, use common courtesy,,,Play by there rules... Cowboys will act in kind return when they show up at your range.....It's the Range rules. In last words if someone is moving and loading on your range and falls while shooting there shotgun, hope and pray no one tells their family lawyer that they saw this post on the SASS Wire and it could of been prevented.... Who is at fault????? Would you bet your family farm on it????? T-Bone Howdy T-Bone, I don't think anybody is knocking your range rules, others do it we even have a club out here that will not allow loading shotgun on the move, but since you have a Range at your property, I think loading shotguns on the run are a least of your worries, but you have manged to lower some of the liability. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 As an aside, I sometimes compete in submachinegun matches in which competitors move, and run, with a loaded, cocked, subgun with the selector set on full-auto. The cardinal rule in those matches is finger out of the triggerguard when moving. I confess that the first time I competed in one of those matches, while running all I could think of was what would my cowboy action shooting buddies think of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You must not know how a 97 works, as in what effort and what all needs to happen to close the action of the 97. Not loading it correctly? Either the SG shell goes through the port aligned forward or not. Action is still open till you work the slide. I run with SG in one hand and weak hand has a fist full of shells. Edit: Isn't having an empty in the 97 chamber and then loading two more in mazagine a violation? Meaning, you would have three in the gun and SASS only allows you to load a maximum of two. Penalty would be a MS or a P. Which? No call, rules now allow it. I'm thinkin' this is not new but has always been allowed to have 2 in the mag and a fired case in the chamber at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm thinkin' this is not new but has always been allowed to have 2 in the mag and a fired case in the chamber at the same time. The clarification re: the two LIVE round limit is fairly recent. So is allowing SG movement with the hammer(s) down on empty chamber(s) or fired round(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You can argue all you want but if you shoot at a Dooley range or sponsored shoot you will plant and poke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You can argue all you want but if you shoot at a Dooley range or sponsored shoot you will plant and poke. No one is arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm thinkin' this is not new but has always been allowed to have 2 in the mag and a fired case in the chamber at the same time. As I recall it was a discussion item at a recent TG summit by RO committee in Vegas, maybe 2009/2010 or so. The RO committee indicated it was now legal to do this, i.e. leaving the action closed on a fired round in a 97 and loading two in the mag. There might have even been a short blurb on it in the CC a while back. As I recall, the rationale was that it was similar to being able to move with a rifle, hammer down on a fired round with live rounds still in the magazine. Some stages require this, or an alternative to move with rifle lever open, round on carrier and live rounds in the magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I figure thit iffn I can load on the run, then I taint runnin fast enuff... Ditto. Clubs around here allow it but, I think it's faster to GET THERE and then load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Ditto. Clubs around here allow it but, I think it's faster to GET THERE and then load. golly cheese wize cowboy shootin is about economy of motion load when it iZ,,,, safe,,,, AND,,,, fastest some shooters can cew gum and walk,,,too a smart feller once said if I can load on the move than I just aint movin-------------fast e--nuuuuuuuuuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have enough trouble loading my double when I'm standing still, I sure ain't gonna try to load it on the move Although I do fish more rounds outta my belt while I'm movin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Loading on the move sure isn't for everyone. It can save you time or it can cost you time. Shooters choice. A skill you got to practice on. But first, the shooter has got to get darn good at loading the shotgun in a stationary position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toranado, SASS # 58447 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 My thoughts on this are that anyone can have local rules for their range for local monthly matches. Once it goes beyond that to State and above or any Match that advertises SASS members only, the it should play by ALL the SASS rules. A simple statement of all SASS rules apply. I see too many shoots at those levels that impose their "hypothetical" safer rules, as I've never seen any factual data or studies that this is safer. If the national ruling body of the sport feels the rule is safe, then it is safe and play buy those rules. If a range cannot abide, then move the match to a place that understands what the requirements are to hold a SASS match. I firmly believe SASS should enforce this. and to award a club to have a SASS State and above match, you need to abide by all sass rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 We allow it, but most shooters don't do it. They pull the rounds on the move and load them at the next shooting location. In my case, I tend to stop moving when I load either a SXS or a 97, so I don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 T'all must be a clumsy bunch...LOL Clubs around here use the SASS rules. Nuff said on that. You go someplace else you play by their rules. Isn't any big deal. I'd make some smarmy comment about doing your shooters a disservice by enforcing rules like no-loadee-on-the-movee but I'm thinking of a partic'lar cowpoke who shoots at one of them ranges and it don't seem to slow him up none....does it T-Bone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 One club in these parts had some odd rules about movement with guns when I started shooting, like no movement at all with a drawn pistol. After a few years enough shooters complained, and the club voted to only use SASS rules as many found their no movement habits were costing them time when they went to other clubs to shoot without these rules. I have no issue when range owners set unique safety rules and cowboy clubs have to follow them. When this happens it must be identified in the pre shoot safety meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Sometimes I do load my SXS Stevens on the move. Same thing when I shoot the M-1897's. But I never close the action whilst moving. No one has ever called me on it, on any range so far. But then---I don't move too fast, neither! Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backshootin beauford mcgee Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 You must not know how a 97 works, as in what effort and what all needs to happen to close the action of the 97. Not loading it correctly? Either the SG shell goes through the port aligned forward or not. Action is still open till you work the slide. I run with SG in one hand and weak hand has a fist full of shells. Edit: Isn't having an empty in the 97 chamber and then loading two more in mazagine a violation? Meaning, you would have three in the gun and SASS only allows you to load a maximum of two. Penalty would be a MS or a P. Which? Blastmaster--- you would not want to close the action if it was staged and you had to move to a new position first before firing. You are correct in that it would not help you--- unless it was a real long run However, if you fire 2 shots and then need to move to a new position loading the tube with the empty in the chamber and hammer down is vedry safe and I have been taught legal in every place I have shot. This does speed you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Blastmaster--- you would not want to close the action if it was staged and you had to move to a new position first before firing. You are correct in that it would not help you--- unless it was a real long run However, if you fire 2 shots and then need to move to a new position loading the tube with the empty in the chamber and hammer down is vedry safe and I have been taught legal in every place I have shot. This does speed you up. You can do it your way. PWB clarified to me that you can have empty in chamber and load two LIVE rds in magazine. I pull four, load everything through the port. If I need more, I pull from belt while moving to next SG shooting position. SG is open when I move to other position and throw one on carrier in route and action remains open. Then one foot plant, close, bang. Everything is safe as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowhand,SASS#63559 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Here the thing - if you shoot at a club that allows the SASS rule regarding loading on the move, you're kinda screwed when you show up at one that doesn't. Whereas if your club doesn't allow the loading on the move then you're good to go no matter where you shoot. I HATE this inconsistancy! Guess folks should simply just no longer load on the move...or maybe folks should simply make sure that they keep their guns pointed in a safe direction. There are a lot of "What ifs" and we can add a sh**load of restrictions to this game if we allow our imagination to run wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I have never loaded a SG on tha move. But I love for others to, RRR RRR learn't me that a long time ago.....get yer' tail moving and load it when you get there. It’s faster for SXS shooters and I never have to worry about club rules v SASS rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bone SASS #36388 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Last Year at the S.W. Regional we had a cowboy, while shooting cap and ball pistols, his cylinder from the Rem58's { that was capped } fell out of his gun and hit the rocky rough ground. 3 cylinders where capped and loaded..... This has never happened before anywhere in SASS that we could find during the last 30 years of cowboy shooting. Stuff just happens!!!!! Before and during shooting and it's very easy to sit back and tell folks what they should of done. Volunteer to be the safety officer of your club and help with the next BIG match. You might change your mind on some things. "Never say never because getting on with getting on gets tough sometimes " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Running period for a medically challenged old fart is very dangerous too. I hold my breath every time I see an over weight, out of shape, medically challenge, on who knows what meds, old fart start trucking to next shooting position. In the height of the summer heat & humidity. A full blown cardiac fubar and face plant wouldn't surprise any of us. Old fart is anyone over 50 and there are younger in age folks that fit the medical end of it. Removing a gun with action open and shell(s) on carrier during the course of running would help . Hey, I qualify for most of what I just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 golly cheese wize cowboy shootin is about economy of motion load when it iZ,,,, safe,,,, AND,,,, fastest some shooters can cew gum and walk,,,too a smart feller once said if I can load on the move than I just aint movin-------------fast e--nuuuuuuuuuff Don't know that I'd call the feller who taught me "smart". I'd probably call him MADD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 My thoughts on this are that anyone can have local rules for their range for local monthly matches. Once it goes beyond that to State and above or any Match that advertises SASS members only, the it should play by ALL the SASS rules. That's not always possible. Some SASS clubs don't own their own range. Those clubs have to abide by the rules of their host range. If the range owner says no loading guns on the move, then you don't load on the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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