Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I recently traded for some C&B revolvers with a good honest friend. He hadn't bought them new but had acquired them in a trade. They were in Uberti boxes but he told me the boxes didn't match the guns but that the guns were supposed to be Ubertis. The labels were tore off the ends of the boxes and there was no paper work inside the boxes, the revolvers are brass framed 1860 Navies. They have proof marks on the cylinder, the barrel assembly and the frame. The date code for manufacture shows 1996. The serial numbers are only 4 digits apart. One of the serial numbers is E49311 the other is E49315. There is no makers mark that I can find on the guns. What have I missed? I still see some brass framed guns sold under the Traditions name. Could these be some of those? Who made the traditions line of revolvers? Your help is much appreciated, Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Hi Marlin: Traditions is an importer whose guns have been made by more then 1 manufacturer over the years. Here is a link to makers marks: Maker's marks Look on the frame & underneath the barrel & you will usually find them. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 If your guns are foreign made, they'll have one of the listed proof marks designating the country of origin: www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/archives/Proofmarks.pdf And go here for the different "maker's marks": https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPProofmarks.pdf At least TWO of those marks should appear on your guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks Dawg I have been looking at these guns and the pdf you pointed to. No makers mark I can find. Written on the barrel "SM Black Powder Only Cal .44 Made in Italy" I hadn't seen the letters"SM" on the barrel until just now. Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Thanks Griff I can find the "proof marks" but no "makers mark". Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Are you sure there isn't an "A" in front of that "SM" marking, I'd suspect Armi San Marco or some iteration thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yep, ASM is my guess as well. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well it would appear the cyber gremlins hijacked my last post to Greenland or somewhere. No "A" in front of the "SM" on the barrel. Got out the second gun and nothing bu the "SM" on it either.Took off the grips and nothing under there either. Assuming they could be Armi San Marcos are these guns worth messing with? Also how do you tell an Army grip from a Navy grip. The cylinders have naval scenes on them so I am thinking Navy grip. But I can get all 3 fingers on the grip easily and I have big hands. I thought normally you would have to curl your pinky under the grips on the Navy style. Thanks again for your help, Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The terms Army and Navy refer to the caliber. The Navy being 36 and the Army 44. A lot of the Colts have the Navy scene on the cylinder. The 1860 Army has a longer grip to be more able to handle the "tremendous recoil" produced by the 153 gr ball over 28 grs of black powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I'm sure the guy who stamped the ASM logo on just canted the stamp a bit. I'm sure they are ASM-made guns. No parts are available for ASM guns, but generic parts, like from Dixie Gun Works can usually be modified to fit. Also, there are a lot of ASM guns around for parts. The Navy-sized grip was adopted by Colt for the SAA. If you have a Colt clone,compare the length of the grips. Army grips are maybe 3/4 inch longer. Or, if you take off the backstrap, the mainspring screw is very near the bottom of the triggerguard, but on an Army grip, it is 3/4 inch or so up from the bottom. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 The mainspring screw is very near the bottom so I am guessing Navy grips. How will I ever be able to manage the recoil of this massive .44 with such puny grips? Thanks for the help, Marlin (The mean old Big Bore navy shooting pirate)Buckhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Lucre, 55674L Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The mainspring screw is very near the bottom so I am guessing Navy grips. How will I ever be able to manage the recoil of this massive .44 with such puny grips? Thanks for the help, Marlin (The mean old Big Bore navy shooting pirate)Buckhorn Close your eyes, hang on with both hands and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyandot Jim Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The mainspring screw is very near the bottom so I am guessing Navy grips. How will I ever be able to manage the recoil of this massive .44 with such puny grips? Thanks for the help, Marlin (The mean old Big Bore navy shooting pirate)Buckhorn As stated it has the same grip frame as a SAA. Soooooo if ya can handle a SAA with 250 gr bullet and a case full of powder. The 44 with a 153 gr ball and 20-30 grs is a pussy cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's well to remember lot of folks were a lot smaller built in those days than today. Until widely available refrigerated milk and such, kids didn't grow near as big. So yeah, if yer 5'3" and have the expected smaller hands, a .44 was a handful. My FIL was in the Navy in WWII, and recalls how hard it was for him to shoot a 1911 when they used to shoot at stuff thrown overboard to entertain themselves aboard ship. But he's 5'3"...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Ranger Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I had a stainless San Marco about the same time frame,the hammer pull was a booger but a gunsmith took care of that and it was a fine gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm sure the guy who stamped the ASM logo on just canted the stamp a bit. I'm sure they are ASM-made guns. --Dawg They are definitely Armi San Marcos. ASM made guns can be marked with Armi San Marco; A.S.M.; ASM; SM; San Marco; Marco; or an intertwined ASM. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Assuming they could be Armi San Marcos are these guns worth messing with?Marlin One of my '51 Navy's is an ASM gun, I've been using it competition since 1986 when I bought it new from EMF. I broke the hand spring in it a week before EOT in 1987, had a gunsmith install a Ruger coil spring and plunger instead of the Colt type... That's the only broken part it's ever had. Still using it. But, being as you say they're .44s and brass framed... IMO, I wouldn't mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Are they 44s? If so I thought only Pietta made 1851 44s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlin Buckhorn,SASS 51727 Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Noz They are .44 caliber, 8" round barrel and I believe 1860 Models with Navy grips. Marlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Pictures are worth a thousand words. And will answer a thousand questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 yeah, we need pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I find it strange that the Itallians manage to make some pretty decent and in some cases bordering on outstanding guns, but have failed to adapt the technology to legibly stamp metal. One need simply look at the tang of an 18XX winchester rifle to know the technology has been there for over 100 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Are they 44s? If so I thought only Pietta made 1851 44s. Both of THESE ASM 's are .44's...the one on the left is an EMF "Hartford" '51 Navy; the other is an 1860. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Are they 44s? If so I thought only Pietta made 1851 44s. ASM, Uberti, Pietta and Euroarms all made .44 cal 1851 Navies at one time or another. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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