Captain Bill Burt 3,319 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Shooter is a Buckeroo (the only one at the match), maybe 8 years old, shooting his first match. The TO has already supervised the shooter for one stage and observed that his long guns are giving him a little trouble (too big) but the shooter is calm and following directions well. This is the third stage. Shooter comes to the firing line with his pistols and shotgun and an adult caring his rifle. When the shooter is handed the rifle (no 170 issues) he immediately begins to work the lever. TO says Stop! The shooter stops with the lever fully open, there is clearly no round in the chamber. The TO retrieves the rifle and hands it off, explains the mistake to the Buckeroo then sends him to the unloading table with instructions to come back and restart the stage after he clears and reloads. You make the call. Link to post Share on other sites
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 64 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 No Call Shooter was not committed to the stage as no first shot was fired. To simply ensured that the shooter started the stage properly. Link to post Share on other sites
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 238 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 TO did the right thing. No call. Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger Clayton Conagher #43872 42 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 No Call Shooter was not committed to the stage as no first shot was fired. To simply ensured that the shooter started the stage properly. I agree no call. Sounds like the little guy had a small brain fart. I also like the fact that the young shooter was not embarrassed and allowed a re-shoot. Link to post Share on other sites
Bama Red 0 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sounds like the TO did a good job protecting a fragile ego, enforcing the rules and explaining the mistake to the young shooter. Good job all the way around. No call. Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Jim 0 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in. Waco Jim Link to post Share on other sites
Ktown Kid 0 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 good call... no round downrang, no 170 violation, TO saw the gun was clear (no round in chamber and lever open), and gun was safely handed off... the shooter was not only young but it was the first match... yes, we cut everyone "a little more slack" in thier first few matches and give ocasional re-shoots to help get the experiance... we dont cut slack for making the same mistakes over and over again... TO allowed the young shooter to leave with a smile!!!! lifes good! Link to post Share on other sites
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 33 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Don't know what you are looking for here.....Do you think a call should have been be made ? Why ?..... Age ? Shooters ability to safely shoot the required firearms through the course of fire ? Lack of supervision ? All these issues should have been addressed before the match..... Also I would have made sure the loading officer was doing their job......or not ?..... Mink...... Link to post Share on other sites
The Original Lumpy Gritz 7,503 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 NO call. Just "match-nerves" is all. LG Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom, SASS #54973 4,686 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in. Waco Jim What "Rule" was violated???? The fact that the timer was not started DOES enter into equasion. I think yer a little lost on this one Sir. Cheers! Phantom Link to post Share on other sites
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 5,109 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 REF: SHB p.19 RO1 p.22 RO1 p.28 (Pocket RO Card) Link to post Share on other sites
Painted Filly 3 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 As long as no rounds have gone down range, NO CALL. Painted Filly Link to post Share on other sites
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 14 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in. Waco Jim Yer new around these parts pard. Learn the rules about shooting before you offer an opinion. No one is committed to a stage until the first round goes down range, no matter what their age, race, or political affiliation. Fillmore Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Bill Burt 3,319 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 PaleWolf, Could I get a little clarification on the rules you referenced? For Shooter's Handbook page 19 are you referencing the fact that reshoots are acceptable until the first round goes down range? For RO1 page 22 is it the same as above? For RO1 Pocket RO card page 28, or did you mean 29? I'm not sure what you're referencing? The shooter did not arrive at the firing line with the hammer back, nor did he stage it that way. Stage instructions stated "Start with Rifle in Hands" which is where it was when he jacked the lever. Or are you referencing the flow chart and a possible P? FWIW, I was the TO and I'm a new RO1, so the purpose of my post was to see if the 'no call' I made was the right call? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L 585 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 TO did the right thing. No call. Sounds right to me. GG ~ Link to post Share on other sites
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L 585 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Yer new around these parts pard. Learn the rules about shooting before you offer an opinion. No one is committed to a stage until the first round goes down range, no matter what their age, race, or political affiliation. Fillmore That's funny - but are you sure about that ? GG ~ Link to post Share on other sites
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 5,109 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 REF: SHB p.19 RO1 p.22 RO1 p.28 (Pocket RO Card) When a situation (WtC?) is clearly covered under existing regs, the point of citing the references where the applicable rule(s) may be found is to encourage inquirers to look it up & READ it themselves...rather than quoting the verbiage and ref'd sections. Restarts shall be allowed for a competitor to achieve a “clean” start up to the point at which the first round goes down range. Link to post Share on other sites
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 5,109 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Could I get a little clarification on the rules you referenced? YES (see above post) For Shooter's Handbook page 19 are you referencing the fact that REshootsSTARTS are acceptable until the first round goes down range? YES For RO1 page 22 is it the same as above? YES For RO1 Pocket RO card page 28, or did you mean 29? I'm not sure what you're referencing? Same statement FWIW, I was the TO and I'm a new RO1, so the purpose of my post was to see if the 'no call' I made was the right call? YES...ya done good! ... Link to post Share on other sites
Blastmaster 0 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in. Waco Jim The stage doesn't start (no alibi starts ) till first bullet leaves the barrel and goes down range. That never happened The RO stopped (interferred) the shooter after he levered the rifle but before the shot was fired, (glad he did, right thing to do) and that too allows/qualifies for a RESTART to the shooter. Gun was handed off to get it back to 'safely get the hammer down on empty chamber' and proper round count back into magazine. Yep!!! Age has nothing to do with it. If any one of any age did the same thing as the lad, they would get the same good treatment and given a RESTART. Good Job RO and posse!! Link to post Share on other sites
Anvil Al #59168 321 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Well I am glad folks started pointing out that it was a RE-START not a RE-SHOOT. And as someone else pointed out. Age has notting to do with it. Could have been givin to anyone. But real glad he took the time with the young shooter to explain it all. GOOD JOB. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacknife 1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? Link to post Share on other sites
Widder, SASS #59054 7,889 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? That is an entirely different SAFETY issue. ..........Widder Link to post Share on other sites
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 1,481 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 My call on this is ,,,,,, Good Call by the TO !!!! Jabez Cowboy Link to post Share on other sites
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L 5,109 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? What do YOU think the call would be if a LOADED FIREARM broke the 170º and SWEPT someone?? Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Bill Burt 3,319 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Loaded firearm sweeps someone, MDQ, unless it's Jacknife, then 5 second bonus. j/k Link to post Share on other sites
Jacknife 1 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Loaded firearm sweeps someone, MDQ, unless it's Jacknife, then 5 second bonus. j/k Thanks, I need all the help I can get. Link to post Share on other sites
Grizzly Dave 962 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert Link to post Share on other sites
Griff 1,619 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thanks, I need all the help I can get. I suspect he meant that the someone that sweeps YOU gets the 5 second bonus. What'd you do to him? Link to post Share on other sites
Blastmaster 0 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? The stage hasn't started for the pard back at his gun cart that gets careless with muzzle control and sweeps someone. There is a penalty for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Rance - SASS # 54090 322 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert Good one Grizz.. put a smile on my face.. a chuckle even came out.. I agree.. The T/O RO made the correct call. Next shooter Rance Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Bill Burt 3,319 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 I suspect he meant that the someone that sweeps YOU gets the 5 second bonus. What'd you do to him? Nothing, I was just tweaking him a bit! That's why I put in the 'j/k'. Seriously I appreciate the feedback from all. From the perspective of a newbie things happen fast on the line and you get conflicting recommendations on what calls should be. Thankfully I shoot with a very supportive posse where disputes are almost unheard of. Link to post Share on other sites
Shooting Bull 2,025 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert **Note to Self: Always START with dessert if ever running the timer for Grizzy Dave. Link to post Share on other sites
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 329 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perhaps I can help dig Waco Jim out a bit. The occurrence he witnessed while very similar...was different. Stage instructions said, "When ready, place your rifle on your shoulder." The shooter placed the rifle on his shoulder and when the TO said, "Stand by," the shooter levered a round into the chamber, realized that he had done so before the beep and stopped. After a short discussion with the TO, instead of opening the action of the rifle to move to the unloading table, he lowered the hammer...which was, of course, over a live round. Link to post Share on other sites
Jacknife 1 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 After a short discussion with the TO, instead of opening the action of the rifle to move to the unloading table, he lowered the hammer...which was, of course, over a live round. Are ya posta do dat? :lol: Link to post Share on other sites
Nasty Newt # 7365 359 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 For an 8 year old at his first match, I would have staged the rifle, explained to him what he did wrong, and let him shoot the stge without circling through the unloading and loading tables. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.