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Captain Bill Burt

You make the call.

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Shooter is a Buckeroo (the only one at the match), maybe 8 years old, shooting his first match. The TO has already supervised the shooter for one stage and observed that his long guns are giving him a little trouble (too big) but the shooter is calm and following directions well. This is the third stage. Shooter comes to the firing line with his pistols and shotgun and an adult caring his rifle. When the shooter is handed the rifle (no 170 issues) he immediately begins to work the lever. TO says Stop! The shooter stops with the lever fully open, there is clearly no round in the chamber. The TO retrieves the rifle and hands it off, explains the mistake to the Buckeroo then sends him to the unloading table with instructions to come back and restart the stage after he clears and reloads.

 

You make the call.

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No Call

 

Shooter was not committed to the stage as no first shot was fired.

 

To simply ensured that the shooter started the stage properly.

 

I agree no call. Sounds like the little guy had a small brain fart.

 

I also like the fact that the young shooter was not embarrassed and allowed a re-shoot.

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Sounds like the TO did a good job protecting a fragile ego, enforcing the rules and explaining the mistake to the young shooter. Good job all the way around.

 

No call.

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Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in.

 

Waco Jim

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good call...

no round downrang, no 170 violation, TO saw the gun was clear (no round in chamber and lever open), and gun was safely handed off...

 

the shooter was not only young but it was the first match...

yes, we cut everyone "a little more slack" in thier first few matches and give ocasional re-shoots to help get the experiance...

we dont cut slack for making the same mistakes over and over again...

 

TO allowed the young shooter to leave with a smile!!!!

lifes good!

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Don't know what you are looking for here.....Do you think a call should have been be made ? Why ?..... Age ? Shooters ability to safely shoot the required firearms through the course of fire ? Lack of supervision ? All these issues should have been addressed before the match..... Also I would have made sure the loading officer was doing their job......or not ?..... Mink......

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Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in.

 

Waco Jim

 

What "Rule" was violated????

 

The fact that the timer was not started DOES enter into equasion.

 

I think yer a little lost on this one Sir.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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REF:

SHB p.19

RO1 p.22

RO1 p.28 (Pocket RO Card)

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As long as no rounds have gone down range, NO CALL.

 

Painted Filly

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Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in.

 

Waco Jim

Yer new around these parts pard. Learn the rules about shooting before you offer an opinion. No one is committed to a stage until the first round goes down range, no matter what their age, race, or political affiliation.

 

Fillmore

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PaleWolf,

 

 

 

Could I get a little clarification on the rules you referenced?

 

 

 

For Shooter's Handbook page 19 are you referencing the fact that reshoots are acceptable until the first round goes down range?

 

 

 

For RO1 page 22 is it the same as above?

 

 

 

For RO1 Pocket RO card page 28, or did you mean 29? I'm not sure what you're referencing? The shooter did not arrive at the firing line with the hammer back, nor did he stage it that way. Stage instructions stated "Start with Rifle in Hands" which is where it was when he jacked the lever. Or are you referencing the flow chart and a possible P?

 

 

 

FWIW, I was the TO and I'm a new RO1, so the purpose of my post was to see if the 'no call' I made was the right call?

 

 

 

Thanks

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TO did the right thing. No call.

 

Sounds right to me.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Yer new around these parts pard. Learn the rules about shooting before you offer an opinion. No one is committed to a stage until the first round goes down range, no matter what their age, race, or political affiliation.

Fillmore

 

:lol: That's funny - but are you sure about that ? :P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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REF:

SHB p.19

RO1 p.22

RO1 p.28 (Pocket RO Card)

 

When a situation (WtC?) is clearly covered under existing regs, the point of citing the references where the applicable rule(s) may be found is to encourage inquirers to look it up & READ it themselves...rather than quoting the verbiage and ref'd sections.

 

Restarts shall be allowed for a competitor to achieve a “clean” start up to the point at which the first round goes down range.

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Could I get a little clarification on the rules you referenced?

YES (see above post)

 

For Shooter's Handbook page 19 are you referencing the fact that REshootsSTARTS are acceptable until the first round goes down range?

YES

 

For RO1 page 22 is it the same as above?

YES

 

For RO1 Pocket RO card page 28, or did you mean 29? I'm not sure what you're referencing?

Same statement

 

FWIW, I was the TO and I'm a new RO1, so the purpose of my post was to see if the 'no call' I made was the right call?

YES...ya done good! ;)

 

...

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Well I'm no RO but if the lever is open, the hammer is cocked and the shooter is standing on the firing line. The fact that the timer has not started does not enter into the equasion as I understand the rules. I would like an RO to make a call on this bases on the rules. Some may argue that the shooter is only 8 yrs old and should get some slack in the rules because of his age. Does an old cowboy who does the same thing get a pass because of his age? Old cowboys are more prone to brain fades as I can attest, but that doesn't give them or me any special treatment. I think I have seen this same situation before with a very different call from the RO. Let the experts weigh in.

 

Waco Jim

 

The stage doesn't start (no alibi starts ) till first bullet leaves the barrel and goes down range. That never happened

The RO stopped (interferred) the shooter after he levered the rifle but before the shot was fired, (glad he did, right thing to do) and that too allows/qualifies for a RESTART to the shooter.

Gun was handed off to get it back to 'safely get the hammer down on empty chamber' and proper round count back into magazine. Yep!!!

 

Age has nothing to do with it. If any one of any age did the same thing as the lad, they would get the same good treatment and given a RESTART.

 

Good Job RO and posse!!

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Well I am glad folks started pointing out that it was a RE-START not a RE-SHOOT.

 

And as someone else pointed out. Age has notting to do with it. Could have been givin to anyone.

 

But real glad he took the time with the young shooter to explain it all.

 

GOOD JOB.

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So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? :o

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So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? :o

 

 

That is an entirely different SAFETY issue.

 

 

..........Widder

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My call on this is ,,,,,, Good Call by the TO !!!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? :o

 

What do YOU think the call would be if a LOADED FIREARM broke the 170º and SWEPT someone?? :rolleyes:

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Loaded firearm sweeps someone, MDQ, unless it's Jacknife, then 5 second bonus. ;) j/k

 

 

Thanks, I need all the help I can get. :lol:

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Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert :D

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Thanks, I need all the help I can get. :lol:

I suspect he meant that the someone that sweeps YOU gets the 5 second bonus. What'd you do to him?

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So, the stage don't start till the first shot leaves the barrel? so what happens when the shooter attempts to stage his rifle and it slips off the prop and turns round pointing at the crowd? Stage hasn't started yet? :o

 

 

The stage hasn't started for the pard back at his gun cart that gets careless with muzzle control and sweeps someone. There is a penalty for that.

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Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert :D

 

Good one Grizz.. put a smile on my face.. a chuckle even came out..

 

I agree.. The T/O RO made the correct call.

Next shooter :)

Rance <_<

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I suspect he meant that the someone that sweeps YOU gets the 5 second bonus. What'd you do to him?

:lol:

Nothing, I was just tweaking him a bit! That's why I put in the 'j/k'.

 

Seriously I appreciate the feedback from all. From the perspective of a newbie things happen fast on the line and you get conflicting recommendations on what calls should be. Thankfully I shoot with a very supportive posse where disputes are almost unheard of.

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Ya done good Capt Bill, you can run the timer for me anytime, you might want to bring a stool along though, I'm kinda slow. Had one TO bring along a 5 course lunch to eat while I was shootin, I thought that was a bit rude so I sped up so he didn't have time to finish the dessert :D

 

 

**Note to Self: Always START with dessert if ever running the timer for Grizzy Dave. :P

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Perhaps I can help dig Waco Jim out a bit. The occurrence he witnessed while very similar...was different.

 

Stage instructions said, "When ready, place your rifle on your shoulder." The shooter placed the rifle on his shoulder and when the TO said, "Stand by," the shooter levered a round into the chamber, realized that he had done so before the beep and stopped. After a short discussion with the TO, instead of opening the action of the rifle to move to the unloading table, he lowered the hammer...which was, of course, over a live round.

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After a short discussion with the TO, instead of opening the action of the rifle to move to the unloading table, he lowered the hammer...which was, of course, over a live round.

 

 

Are ya posta do dat? :lol: :lol:

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For an 8 year old at his first match, I would have staged the rifle, explained to him what he did wrong, and let him shoot the stge without circling through the unloading and loading tables.

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