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Transfer bar removal


Coyote Kid, SASS#54714

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ONLY to the targets :lol:

OL' Bill Ruger came up the the transfere bar for his SA's so that all 6 chambers could be loaded and carried in a safe manner.

Cheers,

LG

 

...and some shooters take out the transfer bars because they can only load 5 in their CAS guns anyway and don't want to chance a t-bar breakage during a match.;)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Of course SASS rules expressly forbid loading six in our revolvers, the rules do not forbid revolvers that don't have transfer bar safeties. What does that say about the prevailing opinion on the need for transfer bar safeties? The most important safety device is between your ears.

 

I wonder how many shooters have disabled the safeties on their shotguns and rifles?

 

Sometimes you will load a 6th round on the clock. I do feel the 5 round thing was a CYA deal for SASS & a smart thing.

YUP, I did remove the crossbolt safety on my newer '94 Marlin.

The BEST safety is common sense....

Cheers,

LG

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The transfer bars are great for a stock gun and a definite improvement in design for a gun that holds six rounds. For a SASS gun that holds 5 and is used for speed the transfer bars are a hindrance and offer only disadvantages.

 

Not sound disrespectful(it’s hard not to sound cold with my limited writing skills….lol) but honestly if you don’t know the advantages of taking the transfer bars out……you probably are not in a position to take advantage of modification anyway.

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The transfer bars are great for a stock gun and a definite improvement in design for a gun that holds six rounds. For a SASS gun that holds 5 and is used for speed the transfer bars are a hindrance and offer only disadvantages.

 

Not sound disrespectful(it's hard not to sound cold with my limited writing skills….lol) but honestly if you don't know the advantages of taking the transfer bars out……you probably are not in a position to take advantage of modification anyway.

 

Well said!

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I'll leave the t-bars in my "old model" 44's since I do occasionally carry one of them outside of cas. My gamer 38's have no use to me outside of this sport so they are at the doctor getting the t-bars removed and a four click hammer mod. It took me two weeks of dryfire and one match to break a bar in a 38 NV.

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Fast draw uses blanks.

 

 

What do blanks have to do with it? Fast Draw guns used by the top shooters are almost all Three Screw Blackhawks which have been modified. The old 3-screw is the most durable of any single action out there. Even using blanks, true fast draw shooters put more stress on the gun than any SASS shooter can imagine.

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Of course SASS rules expressly forbid loading six in our revolvers, the rules do not forbid revolvers that don't have transfer bar safeties. What does that say about the prevailing opinion on the need for transfer bar safeties? The most important safety device is between your ears.

 

I wonder how many shooters have disabled the safeties on their shotguns and rifles?

 

Ears? I believe some shooters have really hit their heads in massive format. The playing with the functioning of a firearm in extreme cases is going to ruin the manufacturing of good high quality firearms. Why not buy the format of function and enjoy it. I believe the desire to have what everyone else thinks is granduer is nice, but I would rather have what few others have. HUH? I don't know why in all sam hill one would want to try to make a Ruger a Colt when you can have a beautiful Colt and enjoy it in the first place. If you want a great Ruger, get in touch with Bill Oglesby and get your Ruger actioned to feel like nothing you have had before. And it will last like an anvil.

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I don't know why in all sam hill one would want to try to make a Ruger a Colt when you can have a beautiful Colt and enjoy it in the first place.

 

I've wondered that myself.

 

Still, a pair of tricked out Rugers are still more affordable than a pair of Colts.

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Ears? I believe some shooters have really hit their heads in massive format. The playing with the functioning of a firearm in extreme cases is going to ruin the manufacturing of good high quality firearms. Why not buy the format of function and enjoy it. I believe the desire to have what everyone else thinks is granduer is nice, but I would rather have what few others have. HUH? I don't know why in all sam hill one would want to try to make a Ruger a Colt when you can have a beautiful Colt and enjoy it in the first place. If you want a great Ruger, get in touch with Bill Oglesby and get your Ruger actioned to feel like nothing you have had before. And it will last like an anvil.

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this post Fargo. My point was that the most important safety device is the shooter's brain (what he/she has between their ears). I don't know what or how 'playing with the functioning' has to do with the manufacturing process? How can what I have done to my firearm after it's been manufactured affect the process of manufacturing future firearms? What is the 'format of function'? I don't have a desire to 'have what everyone else' does. In fact no one else I shoot with has a pair of Rugers like mine. My Rugers aren't Colts, they're Rugers that have been customized to have the best of both, rock solid dependability coupled with an incredibly smooth action and trigger, and a half cock to minimize lost time if I inadvertenty fail to fully cock the hammer. No offense to you or Bill Oglesby, but my Jimmy Spurs Rugers DO feel like nothing I've had before. Generally I try to be open to other's opinions, but your post leads me to believe that you either didn't follow my post, or you don't know what you're talking about.

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I've wondered that myself.

 

Still, a pair of tricked out Rugers are still more affordable than a pair of Colts.

 

And more durable. I don't want to make this a Colt vs Ruger debate, cause that argument has been settled, go to a match and see how many people are shooting each. Or poll the top shooters and see how many are shooting Rugers vs how many are shooting Colts. If I thought Colts were a more competitive gun, I would be shooting Colts. I'm not going to pay top dollar for an inferior product just because it has a particular name on it.

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Ears? I believe some shooters have really hit their heads in massive format. The playing with the functioning of a firearm in extreme cases is going to ruin the manufacturing of good high quality firearms. Why not buy the format of function and enjoy it. I believe the desire to have what everyone else thinks is granduer is nice, but I would rather have what few others have. HUH? I don't know why in all sam hill one would want to try to make a Ruger a Colt when you can have a beautiful Colt and enjoy it in the first place. If you want a great Ruger, get in touch with Bill Oglesby and get your Ruger actioned to feel like nothing you have had before. And it will last like an anvil.

We are just making a new Ruger work like an old Ruger and a lot more similar to a Colt in function with 4 clicks.

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It all comes down to the fact that it's YOUR gun. Don't tell me what to do with MY gun. Removing the Ruger transfer bar makes it no different than a colt or clone when it's done. All firearms are dangerous. If a Colt were better I'd have several, but they are not for my purpose. I'll stick with my Rugers that have been modified.

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I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this post Fargo. My point was that the most important safety device is the shooter's brain (what he/she has between their ears). I don't know what or how 'playing with the functioning' has to do with the manufacturing process? How can what I have done to my firearm after it's been manufactured affect the process of manufacturing future firearms? What is the 'format of function'? I don't have a desire to 'have what everyone else' does. In fact no one else I shoot with has a pair of Rugers like mine. My Rugers aren't Colts, they're Rugers that have been customized to have the best of both, rock solid dependability coupled with an incredibly smooth action and trigger, and a half cock to minimize lost time if I inadvertenty fail to fully cock the hammer. No offense to you or Bill Oglesby, but my Jimmy Spurs Rugers DO feel like nothing I've had before. Generally I try to be open to other's opinions, but your post leads me to believe that you either didn't follow my post, or you don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

Probably the latter. From here on I will not talk out loud.

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My wife and I have a pair of Ruger Vaqueros (the big 'uns, not the new ones) that are mostly carried with hot loads for defense against whatever might go wrong on a hike in the Colorado high country, like a horrible misunderstanding with a mamma bear.

 

Since they have transfer bars, we carry six in them, but, rare as a situation would be where we'd actually need a firearm on a hike, almost unimaginable is a situation where we'd need all six loads. I've never broken a transfer bar, but obviously it's possible. A transfer bar breaking in the middle of a defensive shooting would turn my Vaquero into a tiny club. I keep thinking I should do all the mods to turn my transfer bar equipped Vaqueros into the old model style, and just carry five. I normally shoot a pair of Colts in CAS, so I'm more used to only having five rounds, anyway.

 

I realize a small chance of needing a gun, times a small chance of a transfer bar breaking, equals a really small chance of both happening together . . . but, it does make one go "hmmmm".

 

So, what do you pards think?

 

Happy Rails,

 

Narrow Gauge

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There are gunsmiths who will make this mod and do it correctly. That is, put in a full half-cock notch. Some other gunsmiths only put in a shelf in place of a notch. You have, in effect, a bigger additional sear step at the half-cock position.

 

What this means is, if you pull the trigger when the gun is on the half-cock step, it will discharge.

 

I won't tell you how half-assed and unsafe I consider this step modification. Some well-known SASS gunsmiths do it and I believe it to be the worst mod ever inflicted upon this game. If you're gonna do the mod, build in a full notch, not just the step.

 

Deuce said "It's my gun and I'll do as I please". Fine. If you "do as you please" and you injure someone, you'll be sleeping in a tent eating Spam for the rest of your days....not to mention the guilt you OUGHT to feel for doing a mod simply for something as silly as a dressup cowboy game.

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---if you pull the trigger ---

 

I won't tell you how half-assed and unsafe I consider this step modification.

 

---- If you're gonna --------

 

---- If you "do as you please"

 

----

 

If, if, if my ath. Why in the hell do people live a life of "what if"? If a car runs a red light and hits yours it may kill ya too. People are gonna do what they wanna do with their stuff and its their choice. No need to "iff em" to death. Live and let live.

 

No matter how half-assed and unsafe one considers a modification, as long as it's not your gun, don't worry about it. The owner likes it and that's good enuf.

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Its called 'precaution' Jack.

 

GG

 

I agree, but there is no need for some to try to push their "precaution" off on everyone else just because they don't think something is a good idea.

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Jack: Removing a safety device is "a personal opinion"?

 

A few years back, Ruger was searching for gunsmiths who were making this modification. Apparently they thought it was significant enough that conversations regarding same were held with the ATF. As far as I know, none of the gunsmiths in CAS gave them any feedback on the issue.

 

What is NOT OK is for some yahoo, like you, to get on here and tell a new shooter that it's OK. It AINT OK unless a long string of provisos are also provided to the shooter and you have some idea of his skill level.

 

I expect more out of long time shooters on this site. Don't be a JackAss

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Manatee, just for clarity. If a Ruger without a transfer bar requires a long list of provisos and an experienced shooter, so does a Colt, right?

 

After all both of them lack the same safety feature.

 

If Deuce ends up in a tent eating spam won't the fact that he violated the first three rules of gun safety be the proximate cause, not a faulty half cock notch?

 

What about all the shooters, new and experienced who disable the auto safety on their SxS shotguns?

 

How about the Ludwig replacement for Marlins?

 

I'm not trying to be disrespectful of you, a long time shooter, respected cowboy and TG, but if you are really opposed to these Ruger mods it would seem to me you should also be opposed to all Colt SAAs and any clones that lack a transfer bar, the removal of autosafeties from SxS shotguns (and if you're opposed to that you should be opposed to any SxSs that don't have that feature from the factory) and probably the removal of the crossbolt safety on some Marlins.

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Manatee, just for clarity. If a Ruger without a transfer bar requires a long list of provisos and an experienced shooter, so does a Colt, right?

 

After all both of them lack the same safety feature.

 

If Deuce ends up in a tent eating spam won't the fact that he violated the first three rules of gun safety be the proximate cause, not a faulty half cock notch?

 

What about all the shooters, new and experienced who disable the auto safety on their SxS shotguns?

 

How about the Ludwig replacement for Marlins?

 

I'm not trying to be disrespectful of you, a long time shooter, respected cowboy and TG, but if you are really opposed to these Ruger mods it would seem to me you should also be opposed to all Colt SAAs and any clones that lack a transfer bar, the removal of autosafeties from SxS shotguns (and if you're opposed to that you should be opposed to any SxSs that don't have that feature from the factory) and probably the removal of the crossbolt safety on some Marlins.

 

 

 

Let's not mix apples and oranges. Colt's don't come with the warning label that Ruger puts all over its barrels.

 

I'm not sure everyone really understands what I'm talking about. In order to have an effective "half-stop" to impede the hammer, a notch is required AND the Ruger trigger profile needs to be thinned significantly so that it will fit into a normal size notch. If you've ever seen the Power Custom Ruger kit, you'll know what I mean. Ron even went so far as to allow you to purchase only his hammer and gave you instructions on how to properly thin the trigger profile. That kit works. That kit is expensive.

 

But, what a couple of cowboy smiths have done is to dispense with the notch and only build a shelf. They don't bother to thin the trigger geometry. So, what you have in fact is a very large sear step on the hammer placed approximately half-way back in its operating cycle. If you are at the loading bench and happen to accidentally hit the trigger on these "half cocks" the gun can go "BOOM". And it has happened. To my knowledge, no one has been injured yet.

 

When you pull the trigger hard on a Colt on half-cock, no "BOOM".

 

Big difference.

 

I consider this item to be a significantly unsafe design modification and I would not build a gun like this. For your information, when Ron Power originally built his kit, he built a half-dozen or so kits that eliminated the need for a transfer bar. Someone spoke to him and wondered if he was willing to accept the potential liability associated with these kits. He promptly sold them to a custom gun builder. Subsequent kits incorporated the transfer bar.

 

"It's my gun and I'll do what I want", doesn't wash with me. Sorry. If you want a Colt feel buy a Colt. Or make sure your Ruger has the half-cock notch with appropriate trigger geometry.

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As far as shotgun mods, if an auto safety is disabled for competition use, the gun is empty until on the firing line supervised by an RO. A fairly safe compromise. Most guns maintain the manual safety feature so, potentially, they are "safe" for field use. However, I'd suggest replacing the auto feature before sale.

 

The cross-bolt Marlin safety is a great safety for the field and should be used in that instance. For competition, we start loading with the hammer down on an empty chamber. Not something that in itself is a danger without a cross-bolt safety.

 

I'm not a Pollyanna on safeties. I do believe some of the mods we've made to guns in this game are wrong. This change is the biggest wrong I know.

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I want the Colt feel but with Ruger's strength and modern internals. I will make sure the 'notch' is proper to have the same safety applied as a Colt or clone. So...yeah..'it's my gun and I'll do what I want' works for me in this regard.

 

GG

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Easy check: Put it on half-cock and pull the trigger.

 

And good luck with the "I'll do, etc., etc.,"

 

Even the NRA isn't going to defend you if you end up in a lawsuit. Ruger spent millions on their 3 screw recall. I told you that they have previously looked for the guys who were doing these mods. If it comes up in a tort case, their lawyer is gonna be on the plaintiff's side of the table.

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Oh well Manatee...first off I am not doing the mod (a competent gunsmith is so it's like the old 3 screw Ruger)...second, I take full responsibility...and third, I don't really give a rip what YOU think about it ;)

 

it will be as safe as a Colt...the rest depends on me.

 

GG

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Greg, if one of the bazillion link kits you have put in guns has a massive failure,who's gonna be blamed, you or the link manufacturer? Liability is liability, it's not what but who. Do you cuss you son out when he shoots his half cock short stroked Rugers that will go off at half cock that were done by a famous Ruger smith ?

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Actually, I've told him that they were the poorest designed guns in SASS and a safety liability. If he chooses to continue to use them, he's well past the age of majority and it's his problem. The 3 screw Blackhawks that he had were converted to transfer bar setups before they were sold so no issue there.

 

I wouldn't want to live in a tent in Fresno eating Spam, either.

 

 

As to the link kits....most everyone that I've installed are at least as sturdy as factory (except for some of the initial run from a company out west and I pulled those out the same day I discovered a defect). I also don't remove the trigger interlock on the 73 so we don't need to have that discussion again.

 

I've seen these semi-half cocks in the hands of kids and I think that is a bad thing. If you don't agree, fine.

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Manatee...personal attacks tell alot about the character of a man.

 

Good luck to ya.

 

GG

 

You were here on the Wire last year saying how much you appreciated all the help you got at that club up in Michigan because (to paraphrase): You're guns/amm ran like crap.

 

So now you're so fast you need short-stroked/half-cocked Rugers? I haven't seen you shoot, but I doubt it.

 

If you get it done, have them do it right. That's all I'm saying. I'm also saying that some of the guys who do this work shouldn't be doing it. Either they have a screw loose in their brain pan or they are just plain idiots.

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Being nervous about stepping into this fur ball, I was just wondering why folks were using a half cock notch at all on their highly modified Rugers. I have some of those highly modified Rugers and only use the safety cock notch to load my Rugers, which allows the firing pin to just retract. I then safely let the hammer down on the empty hole and the hammer never comes close to the half cock position. I have not done the tests, but doubt seriously if my highly modified Ruger hammers have enough energy to fire the gun from either safety cock or maybe even a quarter inch past it to release it to fully down before holstering my pistols, and not even likely from half cock if I ever used it. With my highly modified Rugers they only have enough energy to fire my Federal primers from full cock. Only time the hammer stops on the half cock position is when I accidently short stroke the hammer while actually shooting and the hammer usually falls onto the half cock position. Then I pull the hammer all the way back to full cock to fire the gun.

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