Coyote Kid, SASS#54714 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hello the camp, I have read several threads that discuss removing the transfer bars from Rugers. What is the advantage/reasoning for doing this? If it can be done on a Ruger, does it also work on a Beretta Stampede? Inquireing minds want to know. Happy Trails, Coyote Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 No worries about a transfer bar breakage...advantage can't load 6 safely ...disadvantage (but for CAS this doesn't apply as only '5' is allowed) ** the transfer bar removal mod should be accompanied by a 3 - 4 click hammer mod for safety. This is something that I will be doing when the budget allows GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Trampas, SASS # 55781 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Lets say you get it done, down the road something goes wrong with the hammer and you have to replace, guess what, you have to send the gun off or the hammer to get welded back up since you got rid of the transfer bar, now I have never heard of this happening but it could happen I guess, cheaper to replace transfer bar than to buy a hammer which are not cheap and then send the hammer or gun off to get fixed, thats my thought anyway, I'm leaving mine just the way they are. Coyote, give Cap a call, he has some rugers that were done this way, no transfer bars, see what he has to say about it. All for now JD Trampas P.S. Or buy some colts or clones, then you don't have to worry about transfer bars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Lets say you get it done, down the road something goes wrong with the hammer and you have to replace, guess what, you have to send the gun off or the hammer to get welded back up since you got rid of the transfer bar, now I have never heard of this happening but it could happen I guess, cheaper to replace transfer bar than to buy a hammer which are not cheap and then send the hammer or gun off to get fixed, thats my thought anyway, I'm leaving mine just the way they are. Coyote, give Cap a call, he has some rugers that were done this way, no transfer bars, see what he has to say about it. All for now JD Trampas P.S. Or buy some colts or clones, then you don't have to worry about transfer bars I have SBH hammers on them now. if I have the mods done I can always replace the transfer bar and original hammer if I ever need to send it back to Ruger... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 When I first started shooting cowboy I was surprised to learn that people bought new model Rugers and changed them into "old models" with half cock hammers. It reminded me of an aftermarket catalog for BMW motorcycles. At the time BMW put carbs on the twin cylinder bikes and the newer inline "K' engines had fuel injection. You could buy aftermarket kits to put fuel injection on the twins and to convert your K bike to carburetors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Do a search on this topic. You CANNOT simply remove the transfer bar. Other mods have to be done or the gun will be unsafe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Transfer bars break sometimes. Sometimes they last forever. I have a bunch of RVs and NMBHs and have yet to break my first one. I am lucky in that regard. I have a pair of RVs that have been given the full treatment with the 4 clicks and t-bar excision and they are SWEET. I love those guns. I also have a birds head gripped RV with a Bisley hammer in 45Colt/45ACP that was slicked by a famous smith when the Bisley hammer and grip were installed that still has it's t-bar so I can load 6. It is a perfect packin' pistol carry gun not a CAS gun. So, for huntin' or self defense leave it in. For CAS games take it out if you can afford to have the full treatment done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Kid, SASS#54714 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hey JD, I should of thought to ask Cap when I had him on the phone last. I wouldn't do the mod on my Beretta Stampedes. I,ve been shooting them for 9 years now, out of the box, with only having to replace a trigger spring. They been bery bery good to me. I'd buy Rugers and have them modified. Good to hear from ya and have fun this season, probably see you at the Iowa State shoot. Coyote Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 As LEP pointed out..... there is more to it than just taking out the transfer bar. You must do hammer work or the gun will not fire. Unless you are reasonably capable with a torch and as a light Gunsmith, I would either leave it alone or have someone who knows what they are doing handle the job. JMO Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I went to many Armorers schools while a POST Firearms Instructor. Several S&W schools, one Ruger school where we worked on the Security Six as our project gun. If a gun is to be used for anything other than a match gun then the transfer bar should remain. If you have a revolver with this bar you may do this test to show why it's there. Load a primer only case but place some wadded paper inside the case so that the primer does not back out against the recoil shield if fired and jam the gun. After the case is in a chamber cock the hammer into single action mode so that the case is under the hammer with the hammer cocked. Now while holding the gun in front of you and the barrel pointed away from any persons in a level position, strike the trigger with the pencil as if you are using a hammer to seat a nail. Don't just put it against the trigger and push with steady pressure like using your finger. Use a fast blow to release the trigger from it's single action position. If the transfer bar is installed,the gun will not fire as it will not allow the hammer to contact the firing pin. That is the job that it plays, if a revolver is dropped with the hammer all the way back and is dropped so that there is no longer any steady pressure on the trigger, it will not fire. This simple test shows that. John Contro who was the lead instructor at S&W showed me that many years ago while in one of the schools. Several PPC shooters at the time had removed the bar thinking it would make the gun smoother to shoot. John would put one in a gun and then remove it and ask if the shooter could tell the difference, none could. Mine stayed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Why do you want to remove a safety? Yeah, I've broken 3 t-bars in our 10 years of SASS. Big deal..... Ruger sent new ones FREE and have a spare also. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 One reason to remove it goes beyond T-bar breakage. If your thumb slips off the modified hammer the extra notch will catch it from going all the way down and you simply recock it and fire...you don't have to 'wheel' the chamber all the way down. Saves a few seconds. Plus if you go to a big match and spend a lot of money do you want to chance a T-bar breakage...just some thoughts as to why some folks do it GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Our family owns over 20 Ruger single action pistols of all varieties. About half are older guns that never had transfer bars. The other half came with transfer bars but now I only have two old model Vaqueros with transfer bars, my first CAS guns. All the rest, including Vaqueros, Single Sixes, Blackhawks, etc all have their transfer bars removed along with other major work by Wes Flowers. I only know of 2 Single Sixes in 22 cal with this mod plus short stroked and I have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 One reason to remove it goes beyond T-bar breakage. If your thumb slips off the modified hammer the extra notch will catch it from going all the way down and you simply recock it and fire...you don't have to 'wheel' the chamber all the way down. Saves a few seconds. Plus if you go to a big match and spend a lot of money do you want to chance a T-bar breakage...just some thoughts as to why some folks do it GG The Power Custom kit does the same thing and it's user installed(for the most part). PLUS you keep a safety intact. http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=136 LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its as safe as a Colt. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its as safe as a Colt. GG You can load/carry all 6 safely in a Ruger either OEM or with the PC hammer kit. Not so with a Colt type...... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You can load/carry all 6 safely in a Ruger either OEM or with the PC hammer kit. Not so with a Colt type...... LG Yes, I know that ...see my 1st post. For CAS you can only load 5 anyway and if one decides to use their Rugers for CAS only it's no big deal if one decides to do transfer bar removal/hammer mod. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I only quoted what you put in post #15 is all LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I only quoted what you put in post #15 is all LG ummm... ok GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee Kliff Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 In laymans terms, what actually does it do, and what is gained by removing it? I have a 40+ year old Blackhawk, and a new BH on order, what will I see in operational differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mine still has them. I do have half cock notches welded onto the hammers to prevent the "go back around" thing from occurring. My half cock notches are NOT a safety devices. Personally, I'd put investing in the removal of a transfer bar right up there with investing in an extra spare for your car...because you COULD have two flats at a time. We all know that you COULD have two flats at once....or you COULD break a transfer bar. I HAVE had two flats in one day, but I've never broken a transfer bar...but I do recognize that it COULD happen. I figure the odds of me screwing up one or more stages and losing a match as a result is about 10 million times more likely to occur than my transfer bar breaking. It's happened (the screwing up.) I survived much as I would if a transfer bar broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee Kliff Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mine still has them. I do have half cock notches welded onto the hammers to prevent the "go back around" thing from occurring. My half cock notches are NOT a safety devices. Could you explain the half cock notch welding, and "going back around?" These sound like things have changed on the BH's in the last 40 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Could you explain the half cock notch welding, and "going back around?" These sound like things have changed on the BH's in the last 40 years.... During the process of cocking, if you fail to pull the hammer back far enough for it to catch...and release it, it will many times not set off the round, but will still advance the cylinder. Now the live round needs to "go back around" to come back to the hammer. For example: Let's say it was the last of the five rounds and that last round has just advanced to the next position. 1st cock: The hammer will fall on the empty cylinder. 2nd cock: The hammer will fall on expended round #1 3rd cock: The hammer will fall on expended round #2 4th cock: The hammer will fall on expended round #3 5th cock: The hammer will fall on expended round #4 6th cock: BOOM! on the only remaining live round. The welded half cock notch prevents the hammer (when released too soon) from falling and advancing the cylinder. As a result, when you go back to cock the gun again, you are actually only completing the previous incomplete cock. Durn if there's not a lot of cock in that explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Durn if there's not a lot of cock in that explanation. Well somebody knows dick GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 In laymans terms, what actually does it do, and what is gained by removing it? I have a 40+ year old Blackhawk, and a new BH on order, what will I see in operational differences? The old Blackhawk will have a safety notch, a half cock notch a full cock notch and you will hear 4 clicks as you cock the hammer. The new model BH will have no clicks, and only a full cock position. The most failed part on a newer Ruger is the transfer bar. Had several break before I replaced almost all of them. To engage the primer the old model hammer hits the firing pin and it hits the primer. On the new model, the hammer hits the transfer bar, if the trigger is fully retracted, and the transfer bar allows this hammer blow energy to be transferred to the firing pin which hits the primer. On the old model BHs, the trigger stays in the rear of the trigger guard with little forward movement. On the new model BH, the trigger moves forward a bunch after firing and must either be reset or held mostly reward while going from one shot to the next. A good gunsmith can make a new model BH work identical to an old model BH. My main match new model BHs function and feel identical to my first year of production BHs. Hope this helps. There are other differences but mostly do not effect the functioning of the gun (i.e. grip sizes). Depending on how old you BH is, it might function more similar to a newer BH that has been short stroked. My first year of production BHs hammer throws are less than later flat tops and new model BHs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Mine still has them. I do have half cock notches welded onto the hammers to prevent the "go back around" thing from occurring. My half cock notches are NOT a safety devices. Personally, I'd put investing in the removal of a transfer bar right up there with investing in an extra spare for your car...because you COULD have two flats at a time. We all know that you COULD have two flats at once....or you COULD break a transfer bar. I HAVE had two flats in one day, but I've never broken a transfer bar...but I do recognize that it COULD happen. I figure the odds of me screwing up one or more stages and losing a match as a result is about 10 million times more likely to occur than my transfer bar breaking. It's happened (the screwing up.) I survived much as I would if a transfer bar broke. Everybody is different, I was averaging two transfer bars a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If, as some say, transfer bars are a good thing to have, just how many fast draw champions have them in their guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If, as some say, transfer bars are a good thing to have, just how many fast draw champions have them in their guns? Fast draw uses blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Everybody is different, I was averaging two transfer bars a month. Deuce, I agree that everybody is different. It's funny now that I think about the fact that I used tires in my analogy because I used to be in the tire business. Tires have a speed rating. The typical customer who came in, some of which routinely drove on interstates, would get a typical passenger tire that did not require a particularly high speed rating. However, if you came in and I thought you drove like you shoot, you would get Y rated tires which can be driven 186 MPH. I can see where you would put a little more wear on a pair of pistols than the majority of the people who play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherokee Kliff Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thanks Buck, et al. seems there have been some changes made since 1969... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fast draw uses blanks. Really??????? but, the guns operate the same don't they? Cock and fire? Just a lot faster operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If, as some say, transfer bars are a good thing to have, just how many fast draw champions have them in their guns? WTH, does that have to do with SASS? SASS USES LIVE AMMO WITH REAL BULLETS......... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 SASS USES LIVE AMMO WITH REAL BULLETS......... LG You are kiddin aren't ya? REAL BULLETS?????? Man that could be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You are kiddin aren't ya? REAL BULLETS?????? Man that could be dangerous. ONLY to the targets OL' Bill Ruger came up the the transfere bar for his SA's so that all 6 chambers could be loaded and carried in a safe manner. Cheers, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Of course SASS rules expressly forbid loading six in our revolvers, the rules do not forbid revolvers that don't have transfer bar safeties. What does that say about the prevailing opinion on the need for transfer bar safeties? The most important safety device is between your ears. I wonder how many shooters have disabled the safeties on their shotguns and rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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