Concho Billy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I don't care about Rank Points or spelling, I just like to smell powder burn......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I wonder if this post will make page 7, oh I hope so It did now ...better late than never! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 lsts see if u r right, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Rex, SASS #71002 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I like to think I have an open mind on most subjects and try to avoid the no win subjects like this one. BUT after reading the article Tex published this month it makes me wonder how can CAS every be viewed as a legitimate shooting sport when we have a scoring system so inequitable as rank point scoring. When I talk to shooters from other disciplines and try to discribe rank point scoring they just shake there heads. Mainly because we are thowing everybody into the same bucket and then after we tabulate the rank points as a whole we divide them into seperate catagories. I would love to see rank scoring go away. I did like that he highlighted the post from Lead Despencer. I do agree that we need to raise up the champions in our sport. They have earned it!!! Rowdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The only thing thats more rank than rank points....is this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepnmud#33546 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I just read this 'cause I wanted to see what Smokey Shanye said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Shayne Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Now what makes you think I would say something interesting? LOL I met a shooter at a match a couple years ago. A few of us were standing around talking when he walked up and introduced himself. We all introduced ourselves. When I told him who I was, he said "yeah, I've seen you on the wire" Then he walked away without saying another word....and didnt speak to me again all day. Guess I said something interesting that he didnt like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tom Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA. BT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I like to think I have an open mind on most subjects and try to avoid the no win subjects like this one. BUT after reading the article Tex published this month it makes me wonder how can CAS every be viewed as a legitimate shooting sport when we have a scoring system so inequitable as rank point scoring. When I talk to shooters from other disciplines and try to discribe rank point scoring they just shake there heads. Mainly because we are thowing everybody into the same bucket and then after we tabulate the rank points as a whole we divide them into seperate catagories. I would love to see rank scoring go away. I did like that he highlighted the post from Lead Despencer. I do agree that we need to raise up the champions in our sport. They have earned it!!! Rowdy Now you have gone and done it ,If you think rank points are hard to explain try to explain how we arrive at TOP OVERALL when we have so many different categories with so many age groups and then we say top overall is the best of the best. Now maybe we can move this along to 14 pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Now you have gone and done it ,If you think rank points are hard to explain try to explain how we arrive at TOP OVERALL when we have so many different categories with so many age groups and then we say top overall is the best of the best. Now maybe we can move this along to 14 pages Howdy TJB, I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Rex, SASS #71002 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA. BT Tom, Do the scores from the open class affect the the scores from the production class? If not, it makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tom, Do the scores from the open class affect the the scores from the production class? If not, it makes perfect sense. NO THEY DON"T !!! Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The one thing that should be amended with rank points is that a stage DQ ought to be worth 1000 rank points or more. Any DQ should take you out of the running no matter how fast you are, how short the match, how small the pond. A recent match illustrated the necessity of this. I won't say it wasn't fair because that sounds high pitched and offensive to the ears, but it made me chuckle when I read the scoresheet. I see what RRR was referring to so passionately. I'd like to be upset, but I'm just here to have fun, shoot fast and on ocasional...hit something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolina Gunslinger Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 USPSA scores based on weighted stages with hit factor being the deciding element of winning the stage and match. Points earned divided by stage time. Classes are all separated with the highest hit factor for each stage getting 100% of the stage points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Howdy TJB, I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating. Regards, Allie M Morning Allie I read your post But now I ask is it fair ? How can there be a case for leaving TOP OVERALL which is UN- Fair and then say Rank Points make no sense? I think another 7 pages should be in order Best Wishes T J B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Tom Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I understand that USPSA's scoring system is different. The point I was triing to make was in reply to the original post of how terrible it was that the fasster guy didn't win even thought he tanked a stage. I didn't see that this post had mutated from that to everybody else is effecting my rank points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 A little trivia, back in the early to late 80's IPSC used rank scoring just like SASS uses now. Not the weighted system used now in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I see rank points as part of the challenge of a match. If a stage is a fast stage, I understand a miss will have worse consequences than a miss on a slow stage. I also understand that a miss Might cost a faster shooter fewer rank points on stage than a miss On that same stage by someone else. It's just part of it. I don't mind it in the least and in fact kind of like it. The scoring method used for a match is not a factor in my determination to attend. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Howdy TJB, I don't have a problem with Top Overall being considered "the best of the best" with the many categories we have. We all make choices in this sport. If someone choses to practice (IMO the primary reason someone becomes a winner), short stroke their guns, use a two-handed grip, or shoot low recoil smokeless ammo, I won't begrudge them for winning. However, if someone wins shooting in some manner that is more difficult, I will think that is really cool too. Regardless of the specific choices, is still a major accomplishment to be in first place with the many fine shooters we have participating. Regards, Allie Mo Morning Allie I read your post But now I ask is it fair ? How can there be a case for leaving TOP OVERALL which is UN- Fair and then say Rank Points make no sense? I think another 7 pages should be in order Best Wishes T J B Hi again, My post was intended to present my view of why it is fair to award "the best." Maybe, it could be better stated as "the fastest, most flawless shooter." I think it is a worthy award, regardless of scoring method. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 whew 7 pages now it ought ta wind down prutty soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb.1 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I like rank points and am not real interested in shooting a total time match. The reason being I'm not as fast as the fastest but I can compete if I do my job and shoot my best, cleanest and fastest shoot. If you mess up in one stage and I didn't, then I probably gained some ground on you as far as standings go. More folks have a chance at winning w/ rank points if they just do "their part". That's all I ask for, a chance. Folks want authenticity in this sport. The way I look at it Rank points put you as close to the old west gunfighter as possible. Who wins a gunfight? the guy who draws the quickest and doesn't score his first shot or the guy who hits his first two shots but is slower? The guy whose gun misfires doesn't say "let's see who wins two out of three". Maybe both go down but plain speed doesn't do it - there's a lot more to the game than overall time/speed. Just a note from someone whose tired of seeing seven pages of rank point bashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I like rank points and am not real interested in shooting a total time match. The reason being I'm not as fast as the fastest but I can compete if I do my job and shoot my best, cleanest and fastest shoot. If you mess up in one stage and I didn't, then I probably gained some ground on you as far as standings go. More folks have a chance at winning w/ rank points if they just do "their part". That's all I ask for, a chance. Folks want authenticity in this sport. The way I look at it Rank points put you as close to the old west gunfighter as possible. Who wins a gunfight? the guy who draws the quickest and doesn't score his first shot or the guy who hits his first two shots but is slower? The guy whose gun misfires doesn't say "let's see who wins two out of three". Maybe both go down but plain speed doesn't do it - there's a lot more to the game than overall time/speed. Just a note from someone whose tired of seeing seven pages of rank point bashing. Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 "Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA." Even in a SASS total time match, the winner is not the shooter with the fastest raw time. Of course if the shooter with the lowest raw time also shoots a clean match, he is the winner. Otherwise, It's the shooter with the lowest total time (raw time +misses+ other penalties). Smokin Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 "Not going to change anybody's mind but to those who say only the fastest guy should win even with several misses, and other shooting sports would not understand how this could happen, that somebody with a slower time but no misses could win. I got my new magazine from another shooting sport and the top three guys for production division finished with times of, 259.11, 252.34, and 241.69 and yes that is the order they came in 259.11 is the new champ. he had the best hits on targets only had 1 miss the others had 2 and his shots weree closer to center. And this was a speed match USPSA." Even in a SASS total time match, the winner is not the shooter with the fastest raw time. Of course if the shooter with the lowest raw time also shoots a clean match, he is the winner. Otherwise, It's the shooter with the lowest total time (raw time +misses+ other penalties). Smokin Gator Well said, years ago I had the opportunity to talk with three WB members and all three said RP will be with us until they pass on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want. or maybe they like it..... that national finials and world championship ...............has different scoreing.................... to see how the contest-ants can addjust to a mental shift and hold it, for a three day main match event or maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 or maybe they like it..... that national finials and world championship ...............has different scoreing.................... to see how the contest-ants can addjust to a mental shift and hold it, for a three day main match event or maybe not Maybe SASS should see what their customers want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Usually when a customer doesn't get what he wants he does not buy the product again SO, if you keep paying your dues you basically are saying you approve of the product. This is a great winter debate that will go nowhere RP serve a purpose and it is what the ones in charge want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Maybe someday the Wild Bunch will let us vote to see what the majority of shooters want. You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting. I would be happy with whatever the outcome of a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You might just be surprised how that vote could go. Might not be the outcome you are expecting. Hi Lone Doggie, Even if the vote was for WR and EOT to keep Rank Scoring , we would be no worse off. Maybe we could save some bandwidth. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If SASS did go to just TT what would be accomplished.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 will there be a page 8... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I would be happy with whatever the outcome of a vote. WB has voted!! You are not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 WB has voted!! You are not happy. The vote suggestion was to see what the SASS customers want. But you knew that and were just being a butt head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.