irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Unless I fell asleep last season, all the bodies are exactly the same, The instituted the "cars of tomorrow" three or so years ago. This makes sure no one body style has an advantage. The decals for the headlights etc are what is supposed to distinguish the manufacture and car type! The only real identity is the motor! Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 CS, I think you and I have agreed on almost all of this over the years. Think about the lowest placing car, just start and park, $250,000, not bad for a days work or less. $200,000 for leading at midway. $1.6 mil to win. Do you have any idea what it COSTS to put a car out there and be competitive? A team could win every race and if purse was all they were operating on, they'd go broke. I seriously doubt you could start a competitive NASCAR team today from scratch for 250 million dollars. Without the sponsor money it just wouldn't work, and NASCAR is one sport where whoever has the deepest pockets wins. As for Dale Jr, he has not adapted well to the "car of tomorrow", maybe that will finally start changing this yesr, maybe not, but I agree he doesn't have the fire in his belly his daddy had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Tull, SASS #66742 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I think it was Richard Childress who explained it best. When asked how does one go about making $10,000,000.00 racing in NASCAR, he quickly replied....................... "You start with $50,000,000.00". Tull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Long Branch, I like the way you think. It would appear that we agree on that fact that # 88 is riding on hid Daddy's name. He can not hold a candle next to the Great # 3 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klondike SASS Life #29713 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 [ Do you have any idea what it COSTS to put a car out there and be competitive? A team could win every race and if purse was all they were operating on, they'd go broke. I seriously doubt you could start a competitive NASCAR team today from scratch for 250 million dollars. Without the sponsor money it just wouldn't work, and NASCAR is one sport where whoever has the deepest pockets wins. As for Dale Jr, he has not adapted well to the "car of tomorrow", maybe that will finally start changing this yesr, maybe not, but I agree he doesn't have the fire in his belly his daddy had. Yes I do, I raced for many years (drag cars) and was competetive. I know what motors, fuel, tires, entry fees, travel and much more can do to a budget, but to get paid for start and park is not right in any books. The crews that show up with two and three cars are out a lot of money. Baldwin really could not afford to win, he could not afford the loss of his car and parts for a year. Kurt Busch only had one carbon fiber seat because that cost over 20K, when he wrecked they had to change seats in the cars. All that said 200,000 at halfway or 250,000 for starting takes some of the sting out. When Knaus costs you 100,000 and you start with negative points that hurts no matter who you are. You are right with out the sponsorship programs it would not work, not for the kind of salaries that are paid and car costs, plus what 4-5K for each set of tires 4-6 sets at least per race. It is not a poor boys game. The motor coaches are the millions for top drivers, and they have a special driver for the coach. It is a long way from a pickup or van pulling a trailer with a car tied down, a few parts and 20 gallons of aviation gas.Yes I know what it costs. I stop here tokeep from taking up too much bandwidth. As said by others I like most drivers , except the Busch brothers, I think NASCAR would be better without them. Kyle can drive, really drive, but has too much baggage,as does Kurt. Sorry if you think I stepped on your toes. #88 Dale Jr., super nice kid, no interview skills, not his daddy, not half the driver his daddy was, but the kid drives cleaner and harder, you have to give that much to him, he will never be a replacement in the 3 car, NEVER. But people like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 How bad a driver do you have to be to hit a large brightly colored machine with flashing lights under a caution flag? Pablo only a passenger at dat point. Montoya is, well, not a NASCAR driver. But something did break on the car and he lost control. One of the announcers said he was doing around 100mph trying to get around to the pack after pitting. As everyone said, 'just when you think you have seen everything, along comes something else. I'm going to get yelled at but Dale Jr. is the Kyle Petty of the Ernhart family. He hasn't won a race in 133 starts!!!!! He may be the most popular driver but he isn't one of the biggest threats out there. He changed teams, owners, cars etc because his losses were someone else's fault. Again after 133 starts I think the problem may be a bad connection behind the steering wheel! Ike I believe it's 130 starts because my bud is a Ford man and reminds me after every race. I feel sorry for Junebug as he is laboring under the same handicap as Kyle Petty, Bocephus and me. None of us would make a pimple on our pappies' behinds. It must be real real hard to be the son of Ironhead who is who Kyle Busch remind me of. Outta my way, I'm comin' thru. You may not like Shrub but he is the absolute most naturally gifted pure-dee drivin' fool I ever did see. I didnt know the Fords in Nascar were Mustangs..they sure dont look like a Mustang...they look like the Camry and the Impala...wor whatever Chevy uses... As has been pointed out, the Mustangs debuted in Nationwide last year. What I cannot figger out is why Chevy continues to campaign the Impala instead of the Camaro in Nationwide?? Real mystery. I guess the Camaro is selling well enuff and the aged junk-heap Impala at 30 thou per never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uno Mas SASS #80082 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Hello. My name is Juan Pablo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. --- Stolen from anther board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Pablo only a passenger at dat point. I believe it's 130 starts because my bud is a Ford man and reminds me after every race. I feel sorry for Junebug as he is laboring under the same handicap as Kyle Petty, Bocephus and me. None of us would make a pimple on our pappies' behinds. It must be real real hard to be the son of Ironhead who is who Kyle Busch remind me of. Outta my way, I'm comin' thru. You may not like Shrub but he is the absolute most naturally gifted pure-dee drivin' fool I ever did see. As has been pointed out, the Mustangs debuted in Nationwide last year. What I cannot figger out is why Chevy continues to campaign the Impala instead of the Camaro in Nationwide?? Real mystery. I guess the Camaro is selling well enuff and the aged junk-heap Impala at 30 thou per never will. Fool being the key word. If shrub had pulled some of the shenanigans he's pulled in the old days he'd have met Mr. Wall or found himself exploring the aeronautical capabilities of a Camry on the back stretch guardrail at Talledega. Cale or Bobby Allison or Buddy Baker would have cured what ails that boy. Chaulk it up to a kinder gentler NASCAR! I'm not sure the Camaro meets the current Nationwide template. It for sure has too much cockpit setback compared to the other cars that ARE approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Sorry if you think I stepped on your toes. #88 Dale Jr., super nice kid, no interview skills, not his daddy, not half the driver his daddy was, but the kid drives cleaner and harder, you have to give that much to him, he will never be a replacement in the 3 car, NEVER. But people like him! You didn't step on my toes, looks like we see most of it the same way. Sometimes I feel bad for Jr. as much as I can for any rich man. He will never be able to live up to expectations, but I really think a lot of it is his lack of drive to be best. Kyle is probably the best driver out there for raw talent, but his immaturity and stupidity negate all that for me.... We used to have two old street stock cars, and my first thought when I crashed was always "What's this gonna cost?" Got around to seeing if I was all right after that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Fool being the key word. If shrub had pulled some of the shenanigans he's pulled in the old days he'd have met Mr. Wall or found himself exploring the aeronautical capabilities of a Camry on the back stretch guardrail at Talledega. Cale or Bobby Allison or Buddy Baker would have cured what ails that boy. Chaulk it up to a kinder gentler NASCAR! I'm not sure the Camaro meets the current Nationwide template. It for sure has too much cockpit setback compared to the other cars that ARE approved. Say what? The Camaro and the Challenger are just as interchaneable for Nationwide as are all 4 of the 4 door sedans re-made into 2 door coupes over on the Sprint side. Templates are made to be modified. I guarantee if Chevy wanted to run the Camaro they would be allowed to. Apparently GM has made some kind of idjit marketing decision to stick with the Impala. Makes no sense to me. There has never been a 2 door version of this iteration of the Impala, only 4 door sedans. There is a 2 door Camry coupe but all Chargers are 4 doors, except in NASCAR. Has there been any 2 door Fusions? I think all those are 4 doors too. NASCAR needs to ditch the cookie cutter body style business and go back to distinctive body styles from each manufacturer like it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I've been a fan since 1959 when I went to Riverside for my first NASCAR race. But when they quit using real cars, it changed and has never been the same. You can argue about safety and all that and most of it is true, but NASCAR runs their business & races with an iron fist with only one thought in mind...how much $$$ does it bring in to the France family. As long as the fans. sponsers and TV pony up, they are happy. I still watch most races, but I am not near as diehard as I used to be. They should change their name from NASCAR to something else, as they don't race anything that resembles a stock car and havn't for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think he was easily going over 70 mph....yup, can't control much when the car goes seriously awry in the wheel, suspension, chassis area (don't know exactly what happened - guess we will soon enough)....according to this report he was full on the brakes and still crashed into the truck. http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/Daytona-500-Juan-Pablo-Montoya-crash-ignites-huge-fire-022712 GG ~ I'm no NASCAR fan, but I did watch this video.... Is Montoya spilling fuel all the way up the track before the impact? How come? Filler cap open? Overfill/overflow? Sumpin' broke? LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Probably rear end or tranny oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Say what? The Camaro and the Challenger are just as interchaneable for Nationwide as are all 4 of the 4 door sedans re-made into 2 door coupes over on the Sprint side. Templates are made to be modified. I guarantee if Chevy wanted to run the Camaro they would be allowed to. Apparently GM has made some kind of idjit marketing decision to stick with the Impala. Makes no sense to me. There has never been a 2 door version of this iteration of the Impala, only 4 door sedans. There is a 2 door Camry coupe but all Chargers are 4 doors, except in NASCAR. Has there been any 2 door Fusions? I think all those are 4 doors too. NASCAR needs to ditch the cookie cutter body style business and go back to distinctive body styles from each manufacturer like it used to be. As far back as the late sixties and early seventies, NASCAR has disallowed body styles and other equipment. Ford's answer to the Daytona/Superbird Chryslers was called the King Cobra, a swoopy streamlined Torino/Cyclone/Talledega offering was never released because NASCAR denied entry. In the eighties and ninties NASCAR denied entry of the Camaro although it had the same minimum wheelbase and engine location as the Ford T-Bird, because of the cockpit location. Today's Camaro again has a longer hood and more rearward placement of the passenger compartment than other manufacturer's offerings and unless and until NASCAR is willing to alter the profile the Camaro may not compete. Some politicing by GM might, and I stress MIGHT make them change their minds at NASCAR, but the last time GM threatened to take a walk NASCAR said, "Bye." To GM's credit, they did officially leave NASCAR for several years. If it hadn't been for Bobby Allison and the Coca Cola Monte Carlo, GM might never have returned to ORGANIZED auto racing in a corporate participation role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 But ,BW, look at the current Challenger. They let it run. Looks just like the Camaro, just different grilles and taillights... I don't get it. If the Mustang and Challenger are fine then I cannot believe the Camaro could be ostracized. I'm more inclined to think it's a GM decision, not a NASCAR one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 "There's nothing stock about a stock car" ~ Harry Hogge GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Hawk 60642 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Probably rear end or tranny oil. Yur right. Watch the video and as soon as he pulls out on the race track, the right rear seems to lock up as event by the skid marks. And there are sparks, just a few and very fast to see, but they are there. Now, if the right rear has locked up, then the car would want to spin to the left or lower track side. But this is when I saw the #2 set of small sparks fly. All brakes locked up, steering goes away, throddle sticks, and Montoya just don't have time to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 But ,BW, look at the current Challenger. They let it run. Looks just like the Camaro, just different grilles and taillights... I don't get it. If the Mustang and Challenger are fine then I cannot believe the Camaro could be ostracized. I'm more inclined to think it's a GM decision, not a NASCAR one. L.D., you have to look at the cars side by side. The Challenger is the same car as the Charger, and the placement of the driver is further forward than the Camaro in relationship to the overall length of the car. Same is true for the Mustang. I'm reasonably sure that IF Chevrolet wanted to race the Camaro in NASCAR they'd make changes to meet the specifications. I'm a Chevy guy, but I've never been happy with the appearance of the new Camaro. It's okay , but I don't think it's representative of what the Camaro's heritage has been. I too would like to see the Camaro race in NASCAR, but at this time the car doesn't fit NASCAR's rule package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 There are no Mustang's, Challengers or Camaro's in NASCAR. All the teams use the same body with the exact same tolerances and templates. The "Car of Tomorrow" is in place. NASCAR wanted to level the playing field on aerodynamics and template compliance. The only thing unique in each car is the motor and driver. And of course the decals that try to make it look like a Mustang etc. It's not as bad as NHRA where they try to call a Funny Car body a Ford Mustang! There isn't anything on those racers that has anything to do with real cars/manufacturers. So if a new body style comes out all a team has to do is change the decals and go race!!!. Poor Dale JR. It looks like once again there were too many cars on the track for him to win! Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mean Matt McCord, SASS #24683 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Hello. My name is Juan Pablo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. --- Stolen from anther board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 There are some people on this forum who just don't understand a word called compassion. Dale Jr. is not his father and so what, that does not make him someone to hate or even dislike. To say these things about another person as I said before shows some problems in your own yard. I loved #3 and he was the reason I watched NASCAR. After his very untimely death I back away for over a year. I then decided to throw my support to his son. Dale and his sister and the half brother who still has a job in the business have been through some very rough times that his haters seem to ignore. To lose your father in a race while he was doing the best he could to block the other drivers from catching you and your fellow driver Michael Waltrip is devastating to say the least. Then to have your step-mother whom you had all the faith in the world as being a good loving person, take away huge sums of your inheritance and run the Earnhardt Racing Team into the ground. It had to be so bitter knowing that it was your father who built that business that she claimed to be a part of and even more or less fired you over contract differences. Dale Jr. has had a hard time coming back from that and at first he did it the same as many of us did in our youths, we drank and did every thing that was wrong and did not care. That's life lessons and it is not for any of us to judge. Judge not least you be Judged. Now before you put a big Bible thumper tag on me, I am not in any way that as I have not been through that door in way too many years. I'm a believer in God though and in caring about my fellow man. I did the same thing when I returned home from the military in 1968 and it was a while getting out of me. We all grieve different. I have never heard Dale Jr. blame anyone that worked for his team as being the cause of his losing any race. If the poster that said that can supply the information I would like to see it. I don't care for either of the Bush brothers but I will say that if Kyle would ever grow up and become a real man then he could very well be the best in my lifetime. I don't "HATE" or want to see either one hurt but if they blow a motor, I smile. Remember a old Rock & Roll song by Joe South "WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES" and enjoy all that life offers without being bitter at others.Take Care David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 There are some people on this forum who just don't understand a word called compassion. Dale Jr. is not his father and so what, that does not make him someone to hate or even dislike. To say these things about another person as I said before shows some problems in your own yard. I loved #3 and he was the reason I watched NASCAR. After his very untimely death I back away for over a year. I then decided to throw my support to his son. Dale and his sister and the half brother who still has a job in the business have been through some very rough times that his haters seem to ignore. To lose your father in a race while he was doing the best he could to block the other drivers from catching you and your fellow driver Michael Waltrip is devastating to say the least. Then to have your step-mother whom you had all the faith in the world as being a good loving person, take away huge sums of your inheritance and run the Earnhardt Racing Team into the ground. It had to be so bitter knowing that it was your father who built that business that she claimed to be a part of and even more or less fired you over contract differences. Dale Jr. has had a hard time coming back from that and at first he did it the same as many of us did in our youths, we drank and did every thing that was wrong and did not care. That's life lessons and it is not for any of us to judge. Judge not least you be Judged. Now before you put a big Bible thumper tag on me, I am not in any way that as I have not been through that door in way too many years. I'm a believer in God though and in caring about my fellow man. I did the same thing when I returned home from the military in 1968 and it was a while getting out of me. We all grieve different. I have never heard Dale Jr. blame anyone that worked for his team as being the cause of his losing any race. If the poster that said that can supply the information I would like to see it. I don't care for either of the Bush brothers but I will say that if Kyle would ever grow up and become a real man then he could very well be the best in my lifetime. I don't "HATE" or want to see either one hurt but if they blow a motor, I smile. Remember a old Rock & Roll song by Joe South "WALK A MILE IN MY SHOES" and enjoy all that life offers without being bitter at others.Take Care David To lose your father in a race while he was doing the best he could to block the other drivers from catching you and your fellow driver Michael Waltrip is devastating to say the least. That is the very reason that I stopped watching NASCAR. He was not racing to win he was “racing” to keep someone else from winning and to me that’s not what racing is all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 To lose your father in a race while he was doing the best he could to block the other drivers from catching you and your fellow driver Michael Waltrip is devastating to say the least. That is the very reason that I stopped watching NASCAR. He was not racing to win he was "racing" to keep someone else from winning and to me that's not what racing is all about NASCAR has been doing this since the beginning. There are always folks out there to hinder or help ya win a race. It happens at the local track all the way up to the big boys. Besides, NASCAR has plenty off fans so I doubt they will miss ya GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 NASCAR has been doing this since the beginning. There are always folks out there to hinder or help ya win a race. It happens at the local track all the way up to the big boys. Besides, NASCAR has plenty off fans so I doubt they will miss ya GG ~ You mean that they won't go broke without me,damn thats a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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