Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Who can coach a shooter?


Shooting Bull

Recommended Posts

When you're off and running...just how the hell do you know if an instruction comes from the T.O or someone in the evil Peanut Gallery????

 

:wacko:

 

mental training, and practicing who to listen to

geeeeese

 

you are a good enough shooter, I am sure that you apply that skill already

:lol: ohy :lol:

 

I teach it

when I help shooters who want to improve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

This is more along the lines of what I was asking. (Although all the replies have been very enlightening.) I was thinking more along the lines of an experienced shooter getting help from another experienced shooter during complex stages. Seemed a bit like team shooting and since I hadn't seen it before, I didn't know if it was kosher.

 

Thanks to all for the info, I'm learning a lot here.

 

I am not sure what you mean by "help".

I think we have all seen shooters that received "help" from their buddies when they are moving from position to position by yelling instructions loud enough to be heard on the posse next door. Such as where to start on shotgun targets if there is a specific order of targets.

Usually the shooter will ask the TO to due this for them so you are going to have to be more specific as to the "help" you witnessed while withholding names and addresses and dates of birth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we have all seen shooters that received "help" from their buddies when they are moving from position to position by yelling instructions load enough to be heard on the posse next door. Such as where to start on shotgun targets if there is a specific order of targets.

 

^This. Stage help from buddies who aren't running the timer.

 

From the replies I've gotten so far and the reading I've done in the rules, it seems to be perfectly legal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^This. Stage help from buddies who aren't running the timer.

 

From the replies I've gotten so far and the reading I've done in the rules, it seems to be perfectly legal.

 

 

Philly,

I will ask a "Buddy" to yell out a direction to me when the circumstances warrant it.

"Outside - Outside" as you run (waddle slowly in my case) to the shotgun targets can be a great reminder if the rest of the stage was something completely different.

 

As a matter of fact, I will usually ask a buddy to call out this instruction INSTEAD of asking the TO - because the TO has their own duties to do.

If I am asking them to call out instructions to me, I am "maybe" taking a little bit of attention away from the "safely assisting" part of their job.

 

I have also seen BP shooters position their buddies in such a spot to best see if knockdowns have fallen and to call out "Down" or "Again" faster than the TO or spotters may see or call.

 

We have always said this game is not always about shooting faster than another shooter, sometimes it is about shooting smarter.

Using ALL the resources available to you is doing exactly that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually the shooter will ask the TO to due this for them so you are going to have to be more specific as to the "help" you witnessed while withholding names and addresses and dates of birth.

A few years back I had traveled to a match in a land far, far away. I was about the shoot a stage that began with the first five pistol rounds from position one, move to a second position perhaps ten yards away where the last five pistol rounds were fired. As a gunfighter, I have to give some thought to this as I don't want to cock my sixth round before I move (that's normal), but while the first five rounds were an order I had seen, the last five were weird to me. Something along the lines of 4,1,3,5,2. It was doable, but with this added mind twister, I thought it best to ask for assistance from the TO. I asked him if, as I approached the second pistol position, he would say, "Four." He nodded yes.

 

Beeeeep! I shoot the first five, hammers are down, safe to move (I'm happy) and in the time to travel the distance to the second bank of targets, I found that, amazingly enough, I could remember the order (I'm real happy.) I go to work as the voice in my head directs me, "Four, one, three, five" and just as I fire my last shot at target two, the timer operator says, "FOUR!"

 

He was a heck of a nice guy, but I see nothing to be gained by revealing his name, address and DOB. :D

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a matter of fact, I will usually ask a buddy to call out this instruction INSTEAD of asking the TO - because the TO has their own duties to do.

If I am asking them to call out instructions to me, I am "maybe" taking a little bit of attention away from the "safely assisting" part of their job.

 

 

Oddly enough, that's exactly why I asked the question in the first place. Picture a shooter, a TO and a buddie all proceeding through a stage at the same time with the buddy offering instructions throughout the shooting string. (Not talking about a young gun or an inexperienced shooter either.) This is definitely not something I hold a very strong opinion on either way but, it seems as though the extra person COULD become a bit of a hazzard. As a TO I'm not sure I'd want a third wheel right there behind me possibly interfering with me being able to perform my duties. Again, I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or the other, was just checking to see if anyone had seen it before and what the thoughts were on the practice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Philly,

 

Sorry I didn't understand what you were getting at with your question.

 

I saw something once I hope I never see again. Very upsetting. Both Hubby and Wifey take shooting very seriously. After Hubby got a P, he browbeat Wifey for not coaching him correctly. It was very embarassing to be around.

 

At a top gun shoot off once, the scenario was so horrid, every shooter asked for a coach. One coach gave wrong instructions and got the shooter booted that round. Both took it well. However, there are some people I wouldn't want to be around if it happened to them.

 

Just adding some food for thought...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I go to a big match. I'm shooting with some people I have shoot alot with.

They know how I shoot. They know where I might need help. Or how to DRIVE me to get the most out of me.

There is not one thing wrong with having them yell out something.

 

Like MOVE, as soon as the last shot is fired from my rifle. Or RELOAD as while that last one is being fired

instead of waitting.

That RO may not. Or may not do it as timely as I might need it.

 

BUT. I am also prepared to take whatever I get if they are wrong and I follow it. That would be on me,

and I would not expect a reshoot. And take the P or whatever else I might have gotten without question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mental training, and practicing who to listen to

geeeeese

 

you are a good enough shooter, I am sure that you apply that skill already

:lol: ohy :lol:

 

I teach it

when I help shooters who want to improve

 

Hell - I'm so deaf that they have to tackle me to get my attention ;)

 

But believe it or not, I'm not worried about those of us that shoot/train/practice a lot. What about those that don't? Should we simple just say too bad - learn to deal with it?

 

I don't know MM...just seems that there needs to be a little latitude when someone other then the T.O. barks an incorrect command.

 

Cheers!!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hell - I'm so deaf that they have to tackle me to get my attention ;)

 

But believe it or not, I'm not worried about those of us that shoot/train/practice a lot. What about those that don't? Should we simple just say too bad - learn to deal with it?

 

I don't know MM...just seems that there needs to be a little latitude when someone other then the T.O. barks an incorrect command.

 

Cheers!!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

to me that is icey slope syndrome

 

a shooter could always say

I herd someone say blank-it-blank

 

or insider trading, could have a feller yell the worng thing on purpose if his buddy was having a badd stage

just my madd mind burning much needed cells again :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to me that is icey slope syndrome

 

a shooter could always say

I herd someone say blank-it-blank

 

or insider trading, could have a feller yell the worng thing on purpose if his buddy was having a badd stage

just my madd mind burning much needed cells again :ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

 

Easy now MM - gotta take care of those few remaining cells...I know!

 

For me - I go back to the philosophy that cheats are going to cheat...and don't penalize the 99.9% of folks that are honest by trying to stop the cheaters.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Easy now MM - gotta take care of those few remaining cells...I know!

 

For me - I go back to the philosophy that cheats are going to cheat...and don't penalize the 99.9% of folks that are honest by trying to stop the cheaters.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

then what is wrong with the way coaching is now

you can't cheat

 

I must be missing something in this whole

who can coach question

 

oh well

I listen to the timer operator

when I shoot black powder, I have someone yell again, if a shotgun target stays up, and I cant see it in the smoke

Link to comment
Share on other sites

then what is wrong with the way coaching is now

you can't cheat

 

I must be missing something in this whole

who can coach question

 

oh well

I listen to the timer operator

when I shoot black powder, I have someone yell again, if a shotgun target stays up, and I cant see it in the smoke

 

The only issue I have is that in those cases where someone yells an instruction, such as Open Lever, when the lever is open and the T.O. sees it's open...but perhaps barely open...and the shooter is clearly distracted...then I think the shooter should be given an oportunity of a re-shoot. Good intentions and all aside, the shooter in this case might very well not be able to tell where the instruction came from. Can't penalize the "Yeller"...just need a little latitude.

 

It's not like a "Friend" accidentally interfering with a "Friend" as he/she is shooting a train wreck so that they get a reshoot...hopefully that would be an obvious "Cheater" situation and you hand that person a "SOG"...or just take 'em around back and kick their a$$... ;)

 

Just thinkin here MM...not sayin I'm right...just thinkin.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only issue I have is that in those cases where someone yells an instruction, such as Open Lever, when the lever is open and the T.O. sees it's open...but perhaps barely open...and the shooter is clearly distracted...then I think the shooter should be given an oportunity of a re-shoot. Good intentions and all aside, the shooter in this case might very well not be able to tell where the instruction came from. Can't penalize the "Yeller"...just need a little latitude.

 

It's not like a "Friend" accidentally interfering with a "Friend" as he/she is shooting a train wreck so that they get a reshoot...hopefully that would be an obvious "Cheater" situation and you hand that person a "SOG"...or just take 'em around back and kick their a$$... ;)

 

Just thinkin here MM...not sayin I'm right...just thinkin.

 

Phantom

:FlagAm:

 

I know what you mean

but

I have seen timer operators not call a completly closed lever

and the peanut head coach, didd call it out, costing some time to the shooter, but saving a p,

 

we can go on and on

we are both right in our thinking

how do you write latitude into the coaching rules, that is the question

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether I be the TO or a member of the Peanut Gallery I am gonna sing out if I think I can prevent a mistake. <snip> This is at a monthly.

 

At a big match if I am not the TO I will always keep my mouth shut.

 

The rules aren't different. Why different behavior?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

how do you write latitude into the coaching rules, that is the question

;)

 

 

I think it's already written into the rules:

 

RO 1 - Page 6 - Range Officer Attitude #4: Don't be a "hard ass" :)

That would have covered this issue back when I started SASS. :P

 

 

(For the rest of the world, that's an inside joke between Mike and I. ;) )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's already written into the rules:

 

RO 1 - Page 6 - Range Officer Attitude #4: Don't be a "hard ass" :)

That would have covered this issue back when I started SASS. :P

 

 

(For the rest of the world, that's an inside joke between Mike and I. ;) )

 

wow

now folks will thinkk I waz a hard ass

 

:lol::lol::lol: thanks for the resume enhancer

I needed it :lol::lol::lol:

 

I cant wait to talk with ya

I think the coaching rule works

I want to know what you saw or experienced, to start this thang

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know what you mean

but

I have seen timer operators not call a completly closed lever

and the peanut head coach, didd call it out, costing some time to the shooter, but saving a p,

 

we can go on and on

we are both right in our thinking

how do you write latitude into the coaching rules, that is the question

;)

 

 

I thought the 'closed lever' penalty was something more than a 'P'.

 

??????

 

..........Widder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was running the timer and a shooter's friend yelled at him to move to the next window. His shotgun was loaded and shut, and he wasn't suppose to move to the next window. But, unfortunately, he listened to his buddy. Stage DQ. The worst of it - it was the first stage of State Match. I wanted to "Stage DQ" his "friend". But, kept my mouth shut.....for once. I still feel like there should have been consequences for the friend, but, there aren't. Just my two cents, with no decent suggestions for the actions of the Peanut Gallery. KCD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At big matches, like EOT & WR, I've seen husbands/wives coaching each other (like "from the right") when they are on a posse where they did not know anyone...at least until they were confident in the person running the timer. Personally, I don't have a problem with it...it's the "smart" thing to do when you have the skills to win a match and you don't know the folks you're shooting with or have confidence in your TO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought the 'closed lever' penalty was something more than a 'P'.

 

??????

 

..........Widder

 

MSV.

 

Page 24 in RO1 - But I went to the Pocket RO Card on page 27 to get the quick answer.

 

Minor Safety Penalties

• Not leaving a long gun action open at the end of the shooting string or before the next

firearm is fired

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MSV.

 

Page 24 in RO1 - But I went to the Pocket RO Card on page 27 to get the quick answer.

 

Minor Safety Penalties

• Not leaving a long gun action open at the end of the shooting string or before the next

firearm is fired

 

thanks

for doing the research

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.