Guest Texas Bounty Hunter Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I know federal are soft -Winchester are med and cci are hard. Where do Magtech fall between on the hardness scale?Anyone know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 CCI and Federal are the same hardness now that they are owned by the same corporation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Muerto Negro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 CCI and Federal are the same hardness now that they are owned by the same corporation. Does that make cci soft or fed hard??? El Muerto Negro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 They met in between, closer to the soft Federals than the old hard CCI's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kootenai Brown Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Another pard here on the Wire, John Boy, did a very helpful study on primer hardness. You can see it here at Primer Hardness Test As the Sgt said, I find Magtech's run toward the soft end of the scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Magtechs work fine . I've been using them since the primer shortage a few years ago, all of my guns have had action work and lighter springs (Longhuter, Cody, C&I, Pioneer). Good Luck Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thanks Kootenai for the link but the Wire Search Engine seems to have a re-direct to all the goofy companies - so here's the text: Federals are not the softest primers. Remingtons are. But CCI's are the hardest 22 Oct 2010 Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds. Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass Pistol primers 0.32 – CCI 300 LP 0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP 0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum 0.40 – Winchester WLP 0.42 – Federal 150 LP 0.42 - Federal 100 SP 0.44 – CCI 400 SP 0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP Rifle primers 0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR 0.28 – CCI 200 LR 0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum 0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR Note: Rifle primers are harder than handgun primers! Lot Numbers were not recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Muerto Negro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Going over the chart my rifle from jimmy spurs and pops all the feds should also pop winchester but it does not. Why is that? El Muerto Negro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Some, myself included have had difficulties with Winchester Primers over the past couple of years. I had several thousand that I sold at a bit of a loss to get rid of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I can't help but think it's more in the stuff we're trying to ignite. Formulas vary, which would explain why some of my guns have trouble with Winchesters in cold weather. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Winchesters (Large Magnum Pistol) have gone 'pop' for me everytime in a STOCK springed gun. When I changed to a rather light spring on the Marlin I had a couple miss fires. I noticed on the last batch of 1000 I bought last year they were goldish in color instead of silver - wonder if there is a soft/hard difference between the two GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Arrow Hombre Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Gunner, Have you installed a one pc firing pin in your marlin? I had the same issue with the Wolfe spring until I put in a longhunter TI pin. I also changed to the LH spring which is lighter than the Wolfe. It pops winchester primers 100% now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Cold weather has an effect on springs, sometimes just enough to stop primer ignition. I would not use Magtech primers myself I had several failures out of a thousand and they did not seat as easily as Federals and Winchesters in either of my 650's. LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Going over the chart my rifle from jimmy spurs and pops all the feds should also pop winchester but it does not. Why is that? El Muerto Negro Hammer spring is to weak....... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I purchased about 8 thousand Winchester LP primers before the primer shortage hit. I was not stocking up as no one had any idea of what was to come. As a instructor I also had to load ammunition for our department and used Winchester which worked perfect all the time. This batch of Winchesters have had several ftf on the range during matches. I quit using them and went back to my Federal's which work with out flaw. Same thing that happened to NOZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Caliber Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 This whole Federal is the greatest thing makes me puke but hey..its a free country..believe in all the change you want...one mans experience is going to be different than mine. I think it would be very rare to find a true FTF that would be primer only..that is not influenced by outside factors. Russian primers are half the cost of what Feds are.. I never had a FTF with the Russians and they never faked a shortage..but I'm sure a hundred people see it different. You know your primers are installed by amatuers..unless you shoot factory ammo...and it missfires fairly regularly Loved John Boys study..hard for me to believe that the diffences in hardness should or would make that much difference The difference we don't know is the chemical make up and the effectiveness of the anvil. I worked for major chemical companies and trust me when I tell you..when it's their dollar...they will lie If you think one is better than the other because of hardness...knock yourself out. I,ll pay half what you do and go bang. The real factor is the wingnut connecting the ground to the gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I've got several Feds that came with no compound in them. Regardless of the brand, check every primer for compound and anything out of the ordinary when loading for a match. LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailboss (Santa) Dave Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Others have said that Magtech primes work fine, but I have had problems with seating leaving high primers. I have also had many fail to pop in all of my guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well ole Dash Caliber can just go ahead and puke cause those Federals do work. I use Federals exclusively in all CAS guns, pistols, rifle, and shotgun. So far only 1 FTF. Primer had no priming compound. Pistols and rifle have reduced power springs, but fire the primers consistantly. Don't kid yourself. Federals are definitely softer than Winchesters, and yes I have ran my own tests. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Someone else mentioned since Federal bought CCI, are the primers the same ? Are they still running the same factories or did they eliminate one ? Often wondered myself. Does anyone know for sure ? Always used CCI till I started shooting CAS and went to Federal out of necessity with the light springs. Have also used Winchester for CAS without any problems.......... Mink......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I don't care what the chart says (Win SP are not on the chart), in my experience Winchester small pistol primers are harder than Federal small pistol primers. I used Win SP primers exclusively for years without one problem. When I started shooting CAS, I still used Win SP primers. I didn't run into problems until after I lightened the hammer spring on my '73. Switched to Fed SP and haven't had issues. This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Win primers; they just need more hammer tension to set them off. Also, I'll occassionaly get primer dents if debris gets into the primer cup in my Dillon 550 when using Fed primers. I still use Win primers when loading for non-CAS pistols, and have never had a dented Win primer. While neither of these are scientific studies, I can state with great certainty that Federal SP primers are softer than Win SP primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks for doing the test John Boy. With all the recent mergers and the introduction of the Russian primers on the market it might be interesting to re-run the tests and see if there's been any changes in the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Smokepole #29248L Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Someone else mentioned since Federal bought CCI, are the primers the same ? Are they still running the same factories or did they eliminate one ? Often wondered myself. Does anyone know for sure ? Always used CCI till I started shooting CAS and went to Federal out of necessity with the light springs. Have also used Winchester for CAS without any problems.......... Mink......... Actually, Federal didn't buy out CCI. They are both owned by ATK. I don't care what the chart says (Win SP are not on the chart), in my experience Winchester small pistol primers are harder than Federal small pistol primers. I used Win SP primers exclusively for years without one problem. When I started shooting CAS, I still used Win SP primers. I didn't run into problems until after I lightened the hammer spring on my '73. Switched to Fed SP and haven't had issues. This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Win primers; they just need more hammer tension to set them off. Also, I'll occassionaly get primer dents if debris gets into the primer cup in my Dillon 550 when using Fed primers. I still use Win primers when loading for non-CAS pistols, and have never had a dented Win primer. While neither of these are scientific studies, I can state with great certainty that Federal SP primers are softer than Win SP primers. When was the last time that you bought primers? I have bought many recently and the CCI's are softer than they used to be and the Federals are harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Actually, Federal didn't buy out CCI. They are both owned by ATK. Sorry Sgt Smokepole, but you are dead wrong. Federal bought out The Blount Corp. Sporting division 2 or 3 years, maybe 4, before ATK in turn bought out Federal. The Blount Corp. purchase included CCI, Speer, RCBS, Outers, Weaver, and others. At about the same time frame, Federal also bought out the Estate Cartridge Co. of Willis Texas. When ATK bought out Federal, they then moved the Estate Cartridge manufacturing to Minnesota to the Federal facilities. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sorry Sgt Smokepole, but you are dead wrong. Federal bought out The Blount Corp. Sporting division 2 or 3 years, maybe 4, before ATK in turn bought out Federal. The Blount Corp. purchase included CCI, Speer, RCBS, Outers, Weaver, and others. At about the same time frame, Federal also bought out the Estate Cartridge Co. of Willis Texas. When ATK bought out Federal, they then moved the Estate Cartridge manufacturing to Minnesota to the Federal facilities. RBK Blount bought Fed. back in 1997, they already owned CCI(Omark)from a 1984-85 deal. Then sold out to ATK around 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo_Sam Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 My Marlin had problems detonating Winchester primers until I installed a one-piece firing pin. FWIW. -Solo Sam #91319 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Greg, SASS#71981 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Some, myself included have had difficulties with Winchester Primers over the past couple of years. I had several thousand that I sold at a bit of a loss to get rid of them. ======================================================== I've never had a Winchester primer fail to go bang. But then I don't mess with lighter springs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockridge,SASS #8763 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Gunner, Have you installed a one pc firing pin in your marlin? I had the same issue with the Wolfe spring until I put in a longhunter TI pin. I also changed to the LH spring which is lighter than the Wolfe. It pops winchester primers 100% now +1 on the one piece firing pin - only way to go! I'd also submit that if you have to worry about which brand of primers will go bang when you pull the trigger you are way too borderline on your hammer springs (and yes - I do have lighter springs in all my CAS guns - just not too light). The difference in your times between a borderline spring and a reliable spring is not even measurable - way too many other factors and the iffy springs will ultimately cost you more time than they possibly could save (slower lock time too) Also, with any mass produced item made by machines by the millions you can not help but have an occasional flaw. It's inevitable, and the more you shoot the higher the probability you will encounter that occasional flaw. I've used countless thousands of CCI, Winchester and Federal with no notable problems. For the last 10 years I've used mostly Winchesters with no issues and I like how they go through my Dillon, but I'd have no problem using Federal, CCI or Remingtons for CAS. For work where accuracy is critical and measured in minute fractions of an inch - I prefer Federal Match primers My experience and HO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've used Winchester, Magtech, and Federal depending on what I could get at the time. Out of those I had a few Magtechs that failed to pop, two in my guns, and about a dozen in a Pards Rossi when he forgot his ammo. Was it the primers or the rifle, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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