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Guest Texas Bounty Hunter

primer hardness

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Guest Texas Bounty Hunter

I know federal are soft -Winchester are med and cci are hard.

Where do Magtech fall between on the hardness scale?Anyone know :huh:

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CCI and Federal are the same hardness now that they are owned by the same corporation.

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CCI and Federal are the same hardness now that they are owned by the same corporation.

 

Does that make cci soft or fed hard???

El Muerto Negro

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They met in between, closer to the soft Federals than the old hard CCI's.

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Another pard here on the Wire, John Boy, did a very helpful study on primer hardness. You can see it here at Primer Hardness Test

 

As the Sgt said, I find Magtech's run toward the soft end of the scale.

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Magtechs work fine ;) . I've been using them since the primer shortage a few years ago, all of my guns have had action work and lighter springs (Longhuter, Cody, C&I, Pioneer). Good Luck :)

 

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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Thanks Kootenai for the link but the Wire Search Engine seems to have a re-direct to all the goofy companies - so here's the text:

 

Federals are not the softest primers. Remingtons are. But CCI's are the hardest

 

22 Oct 2010

Test Procedure: Using a Lee Hardness Tester that measures Brinell hardness, placed a new primer on a piece of steel. Held the indent ball on the primer for 30 seconds. Measurement is the diameter of the indent, smaller numbers indication harder brass

Pistol primers

0.32 – CCI 300 LP

0.38 – Federal GM150 Match LP

0.40 – Federal 155 LP Magnum

0.40 – Winchester WLP

0.42 – Federal 150 LP

0.42 - Federal 100 SP

0.44 – CCI 400 SP

0.48 – Remington 2 ½ LP

 

Rifle primers

0.26 – CCI BR-2 LR

0.28 – CCI 200 LR

0.32 – Federal 215 LR Magnum

0.34 – Remington 9 ½ LR

Note: Rifle primers are harder than handgun primers!

Lot Numbers were not recorded

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Going over the chart my rifle from jimmy spurs and pops all the feds should also pop winchester but it does not. Why is that?

 

El Muerto Negro

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Some, myself included have had difficulties with Winchester Primers over the past couple of years. I had several thousand that I sold at a bit of a loss to get rid of them.

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I can't help but think it's more in the stuff we're trying to ignite. Formulas vary, which would explain why some of my guns have trouble with Winchesters in cold weather.

 

CR

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Winchesters (Large Magnum Pistol) have gone 'pop' for me everytime in a STOCK springed gun. When I changed to a rather light spring on the Marlin I had a couple miss fires.

 

I noticed on the last batch of 1000 I bought last year they were goldish in color instead of silver - wonder if there is a soft/hard difference between the two :unsure:

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Gunner,

Have you installed a one pc firing pin in your marlin? I had the same issue with the Wolfe spring until I put in a longhunter TI pin. I also changed to the LH spring which is lighter than the Wolfe. It pops winchester primers 100% now

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Cold weather has an effect on springs, sometimes just enough to stop primer ignition. I would not use Magtech primers myself

I had several failures out of a thousand and they did not seat as easily as Federals and Winchesters in either of my 650's.

 

 

LL'

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Going over the chart my rifle from jimmy spurs and pops all the feds should also pop winchester but it does not. Why is that?

 

El Muerto Negro

 

Hammer spring is to weak.......

LG

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I purchased about 8 thousand Winchester LP primers before the primer shortage hit. I was not stocking up as no one had any idea of what was to come.

As a instructor I also had to load ammunition for our department and used Winchester which worked perfect all the time.

This batch of Winchesters have had several ftf on the range during matches.

I quit using them and went back to my Federal's which work with out flaw.

Same thing that happened to NOZ.

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This whole Federal is the greatest thing makes me puke but hey..its a free country..believe in all the change you want...one mans experience is going to be different than mine.

 

I think it would be very rare to find a true FTF that would be primer only..that is not influenced by outside factors.

 

Russian primers are half the cost of what Feds are.. I never had a FTF with the Russians and they never faked a shortage..but I'm sure a hundred people see it different.

 

You know your primers are installed by amatuers..unless you shoot factory ammo...and it missfires fairly regularly

 

Loved John Boys study..hard for me to believe that the diffences in hardness should or would make that much difference

 

The difference we don't know is the chemical make up and the effectiveness of the anvil. I worked for major chemical companies and trust me when I tell you..when it's their dollar...they will lie

 

If you think one is better than the other because of hardness...knock yourself out. I,ll pay half what you do and go bang.

 

The real factor is the wingnut connecting the ground to the gun :wacko:

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I've got several Feds that came with no compound in them. Regardless of the brand, check every primer for compound and anything out of the ordinary when loading for a match.

 

LL' :FlagAm:

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Others have said that Magtech primes work fine, but I have had problems with seating leaving high primers. I have also had many fail to pop in all of my guns.

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Well ole Dash Caliber can just go ahead and puke cause those Federals do work.

 

I use Federals exclusively in all CAS guns, pistols, rifle, and shotgun. So far only 1 FTF. Primer had no priming compound. Pistols and rifle have reduced power springs, but fire the primers consistantly.

 

Don't kid yourself. Federals are definitely softer than Winchesters, and yes I have ran my own tests.

 

RBK

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Someone else mentioned since Federal bought CCI, are the primers the same ? Are they still running the same factories or did they eliminate one ? Often wondered myself. Does anyone know for sure ? Always used CCI till I started shooting CAS and went to Federal out of necessity with the light springs. Have also used Winchester for CAS without any problems.......... Mink.........

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I don't care what the chart says (Win SP are not on the chart), in my experience Winchester small pistol primers are harder than Federal small pistol primers. I used Win SP primers exclusively for years without one problem. When I started shooting CAS, I still used Win SP primers. I didn't run into problems until after I lightened the hammer spring on my '73. Switched to Fed SP and haven't had issues. This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Win primers; they just need more hammer tension to set them off.

 

Also, I'll occassionaly get primer dents if debris gets into the primer cup in my Dillon 550 when using Fed primers. I still use Win primers when loading for non-CAS pistols, and have never had a dented Win primer.

 

While neither of these are scientific studies, I can state with great certainty that Federal SP primers are softer than Win SP primers.

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Thanks for doing the test John Boy.

 

With all the recent mergers and the introduction of the Russian primers on the market it might be interesting to re-run the tests and see if there's been any changes in the data.

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Someone else mentioned since Federal bought CCI, are the primers the same ? Are they still running the same factories or did they eliminate one ? Often wondered myself. Does anyone know for sure ? Always used CCI till I started shooting CAS and went to Federal out of necessity with the light springs. Have also used Winchester for CAS without any problems.......... Mink.........

 

 

Actually, Federal didn't buy out CCI. They are both owned by ATK.

 

I don't care what the chart says (Win SP are not on the chart), in my experience Winchester small pistol primers are harder than Federal small pistol primers. I used Win SP primers exclusively for years without one problem. When I started shooting CAS, I still used Win SP primers. I didn't run into problems until after I lightened the hammer spring on my '73. Switched to Fed SP and haven't had issues. This doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with Win primers; they just need more hammer tension to set them off.

 

Also, I'll occassionaly get primer dents if debris gets into the primer cup in my Dillon 550 when using Fed primers. I still use Win primers when loading for non-CAS pistols, and have never had a dented Win primer.

 

While neither of these are scientific studies, I can state with great certainty that Federal SP primers are softer than Win SP primers.

 

 

When was the last time that you bought primers? I have bought many recently and the CCI's are softer than they used to be and the Federals are harder.

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Actually, Federal didn't buy out CCI. They are both owned by ATK.

 

Sorry Sgt Smokepole, but you are dead wrong. Federal bought out The Blount Corp. Sporting division 2 or 3 years, maybe 4, before ATK in turn bought out Federal. The Blount Corp. purchase included CCI, Speer, RCBS, Outers, Weaver, and others.

 

At about the same time frame, Federal also bought out the Estate Cartridge Co. of Willis Texas. When ATK bought out Federal, they then moved the Estate Cartridge manufacturing to Minnesota to the Federal facilities.

 

RBK

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Sorry Sgt Smokepole, but you are dead wrong. Federal bought out The Blount Corp. Sporting division 2 or 3 years, maybe 4, before ATK in turn bought out Federal. The Blount Corp. purchase included CCI, Speer, RCBS, Outers, Weaver, and others.

 

At about the same time frame, Federal also bought out the Estate Cartridge Co. of Willis Texas. When ATK bought out Federal, they then moved the Estate Cartridge manufacturing to Minnesota to the Federal facilities.

 

RBK

 

Blount bought Fed. back in 1997, they already owned CCI(Omark)from a 1984-85 deal. Then sold out to ATK around 2007.

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My Marlin had problems detonating Winchester primers until I installed a one-piece firing pin.

 

FWIW.

 

-Solo Sam

#91319

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Some, myself included have had difficulties with Winchester Primers over the past couple of years. I had several thousand that I sold at a bit of a loss to get rid of them.

========================================================

I've never had a Winchester primer fail to go bang. But then I don't mess with lighter springs either.

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Gunner,

Have you installed a one pc firing pin in your marlin? I had the same issue with the Wolfe spring until I put in a longhunter TI pin. I also changed to the LH spring which is lighter than the Wolfe. It pops winchester primers 100% now

 

 

+1 on the one piece firing pin - only way to go!

 

I'd also submit that if you have to worry about which brand of primers will go bang when you pull the trigger you are way too borderline on your hammer springs (and yes - I do have lighter springs in all my CAS guns - just not too light). The difference in your times between a borderline spring and a reliable spring is not even measurable - way too many other factors and the iffy springs will ultimately cost you more time than they possibly could save (slower lock time too)

 

Also, with any mass produced item made by machines by the millions you can not help but have an occasional flaw. It's inevitable, and the more you shoot the higher the probability you will encounter that occasional flaw. I've used countless thousands of CCI, Winchester and Federal with no notable problems. For the last 10 years I've used mostly Winchesters with no issues and I like how they go through my Dillon, but I'd have no problem using Federal, CCI or Remingtons for CAS. For work where accuracy is critical and measured in minute fractions of an inch - I prefer Federal Match primers

 

My experience and HO

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I've used Winchester, Magtech, and Federal depending on what I could get at the time. Out of those I had a few Magtechs that failed to pop, two in my guns, and about a dozen in a Pards Rossi when he forgot his ammo. Was it the primers or the rifle, who knows.

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