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Reloading 45 Colt for both pistol and rifle....


Tucumcari Tim

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Newbie to the sport, so want to get all the "experienced" information that I can gather. I did use the search engine to see what has been written about before, and wanted to ask about a few items. I have decided to use Clays to start out and see how things work out. I am solely relying on the Reloading Guides, so there is absolutely no guesswork on my part. Besides, smarter guys than me have blown stuff up.

My questions are these:

1. Does the amount of space left in the casing using this powder (Clays) have any effect on ignition?

2. Do you load rifle loads any differently than you do pistol loads?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.....and dull ones too..

Thanks for any information you can give. I know that specific recipes are a no-no here and agree with that. If you want to PM or e-mail anything of value, feel free.

 

Thanks,

TT

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I use different loads for rifle & pistol. My rifle likes a higher velocity (800 or so) but that is a bit stiff for the pistol, so for a while I was running 2 different setups (Titegroup for rifle, Trail Boss for pistols) in 45LC brass. I kept them separate by using 2 different cloth bags at the loading table.

 

Now I use the Cowboy 45 Special for pistols, it makes it a lot easier to distinguish the 2 loads, plus I use about 2 grains less powder with the shorter case. I can put 10 of the C45S on one side of my loading block & 10 45LC on the other - its nigh on to impossible to mix them up!

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Find a OAL that your rifle likes and load all your .45 Colt ammo to that.

There are better powders than what your using for .45 Colt. Do NOT load to the lightest charge shown, go for the middle of the road. I use Unique for ALL of my SASS ammo.

Use a firm roll-crimp for a good powder burn.

Cheers,

LG

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When I have to use smokeless powder I use Clays. That said I have recommended powders to beginning reloaders, I have and would continue to recommend Trail Boss. As compared to Clays it is much more case filling,haven't found it to be as temperature sensitive as Clays.

Adios Sgt. Jake

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Howdy Tim! What powder you use can depend a lot on what you want to do. Most of us Cowboy shooters don't want a lot of recoil with our loads. If you decrease certain powders too much you will get unreliable ignition. Trail Boss powder was made to avoid that problem. It is a great powder to use for light loads. If you will be using Clays, my advice is to start out with the published loads, then play around with some decreased loads until you find one you like and gives reliable ignition.

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In 45LC I have a load for the rifle, 250gr RNFP and Bullseye, and a load for the revolvers, 45 S&W with a 200gr RNFP using Trailboss. Neither one is a light load. I tried TB in the 45LC and was dissatisfied with the amount of blowby. Bullseye works much better. I'd like to have the same load for both and I prefer to standardize powders and loads as much as possible but what works best is more important.

 

In 38sp I use the same load for both rifle and revolver, 158gr RNFP and Trailboss.

 

When you have a big case compared to a small powder charge, position sensitivity can be an issue. Trailboss was designed to minimize this by being a very bulky powder and it does this most excellently. Clays is somewhat position and temperature sensitive I discovered.

 

Some people have metering trouble with TB, I've never had much of an issue.

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There's more to making a good decision on this than just what you have told us so far.

 

The rifle choice you have made will determine if you have a rifle which will have potential feeding problems (like a 92) or particular OALs (overall length) that has to be loaded for, and probably some impact on the bullet weight and charge weight needed for good rifle operation.

 

Your revolvers are not very sensitive to most of this, but lots of folks don't want much recoil in their revolver loads, so quite often they find they want something lighter in revolver than in the rifle, especially in the big bores like .45.

 

HAD above gave you a way the folks solve this puzzle, using Cowboy .45 Spl in the revolver, and .45 Colt in the rifle with a stouter load.

 

 

To directly answer your questions:

1) Clays is pretty good as our powders go about not being finicky in the big ole .45 Colt case. But, getting much below published minimum loadings, even with Clays, you will find that the load becomes a little erratic and soots up the case and gun. Trail Boss powder is made to be the bulkiest of the smokeless powders, precisely to fill up a .45 Colt case most of the way. But the minimum published loads are a good place to start.

 

2) Some folks use the same load, some don't. Often, a person looking for best scoring results with the minimum expenditure of time and money on practicing will choose a much lower Power Factor revolver load (as HAD mentioned). This then opens the door to more combinations of loads, components, keeping the ammo separated and labeled, not mixing the ammo at the loading table, etc.

 

As you can see, there are a lot more variables involved in making a perfectly optimal decision than you have listed.

 

So, my advice to you would be to start loading .45 Colt at a power level you find comfortable in your revolvers, with a 200 grain RNFP or a TC bullet (if you can find one). Use the minimum published Hodgdon load of Clays. Adjust the cartridge OAL to work well in your rifle. Use the same load for both. As you learn more about what your goals are, how well you are shooting, etc, you will know where to take your loading to achieve success and happiness.

 

That 200 grain weight won't be perfectly fine in the rifle. In fact, it will probably have some blowback that hits you in the face if you have a 73 rifle. But, it's only a starting point. I'll bet there are less than 5% of shooters in CAS using the same loading now that they did when they started. But, do you need the "cat's meow" loads that a T-Bone Dooley or a Dragon Hill Dave are shooting? Probably not yet. Have fun!

 

Good luck, GJ

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Like others have said, I have changed my loads several times since I started. Clays is a pretty good choice for a one powder setup. I use it for rifle, pistol and shotgun loads when I shoot smokeless. I have upped my charge to get a little more recoil from the pistols for one handed shooting. My rifle is not OAL sensitive, so I use 165 gr lead in all brass.

 

Start at the minimum published loads and work from there. Just be sure to get a good crimp.

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I've be reloading for 6 months now using trail boss (medium charge) with a 250 bullet for both rifle and pistol . I'm now thinking of changing to a lighter bullet. So you will be trying some different loads. You have a good place to start with the info on the wire

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If you are going to load one load for both Revolver & Rifle. Develop your Rifle load first then try it in the revolver and tweek as necessary. The Rifle first, because it is a closed breach and a longer barrel, the velocity will be 200-300 faster than the revolver.

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I load using Clays for both pistol and rifle. Started out with a 250 grain bullet but have dropped to a 200 grain bullet. I use the minimum listed charge for Clays and shoot that combination in both pistol and rifle. Good accuracy with both at the ranges we shoot at. Would not hesitate to recommend for newbies.

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If you're shooting a Marlin, you'll want to up the bullet weight, powder charge, and crimp. They must have oversize chambers, 'cause it takes all this in some of them to seal them up an prevent blowback.

 

CR

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If you're shooting a Marlin, you'll want to up the bullet weight, powder charge, and crimp. They must have oversize chambers, 'cause it takes all this in some of them to seal them up an prevent blowback.

 

CR

 

99% of the time, blowback is caused by the load used. NOT the weapon. ;)

Marlin cut their chambers to the same SAAMI spec. as everybody else does.

Cheers,

LG

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Howdy Pard;

 

All reloaders should stick to data published and tested by relieble sources,Ie Loading manuaels and load sheets by powder manufacturers...

 

I use the same overall loaded lenght in all my .45 colt arms it is 1.608 with a RNFP bullet of 250 grains ...

I also use the same powder charges in both pistols and in rifles ... The velocity difference is in the lenght of barrel...

I have never had a single squib, nore do I ever expect one ...

 

My loads are at the level of that for which the round was designed to provide, not many in this game want this level as it takes more skill to handle ...

 

But it sure makes life simple ,,,, No blow-by,,, No worry about squibs,,, No need for different load levels ,,,,, No need to sort and seperate loads for different guns ,,,,, They all use the same load ....

 

4 different rifles and all my pistols,all using the same load ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I've been loading Clays for both handgun & rifle using the same identical load in both ever since Hogdon brought out Clays back in '96 or '97 w/o any problem.

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99% of the time, blowback is caused by the load used. NOT the weapon. ;)

Marlin cut their chambers to the same SAAMI spec. as everybody else does.

Cheers,

LG

 

Maybe it's the orientation of the action, but I don't get the same problem blowback with my 73s, nor do I get the dark burnt powder stain 3/4 or farther down the case : )

 

If you can get an 800fps 200gr bullet to not spit back out of a Marlin, you can make a lot of friends bt telling them the load you're using.

 

(My emocons are working backwards, so I can't put 'em in anymore.)

 

CR

 

 

 

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All good responses and opinions. Thank you all for the information. I want to make things as simple as I can and still keep a competitive edge. To answer a question or two from the above, my rifle is a Win 1894AE, 20" bbl, and as yet stock. Will be modifying it shortly. 1 Colt SAA 5 1/2" and 1 Ruger NV 4 5/8" both 45 Colt. (couldn't afford 2 Colts to start, but know the Ruger has a proven track record in SASS). Although new to the sport, I have been reloading for 30+ years, so I have a pretty decent understanding about that subject.

I appreciate the time to answer and have seen there are different thoughts on powder weights and OAL. ........Gee.....who would have thought?

Again, thanks for all the responses and information.

TT

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my rifle is a Win 1894AE, 20" bbl, and as yet stock

 

Given this, then your load REALLY should be tuned to feed as best you can through the rifle. That 94 AE will be what slows you down, and can choke on loads that are not right for it. Find a bullet design and an OAL that gives you 95+ % feed reliability from mag to chamber, using YOUR speed of cycling the action. That gun will, even when tuned, like a firm and moderately slow stroke.

 

I'll predict it will be the first gun you move on from (as it was mine).

 

Good luck, GJ

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Maybe it's the orientation of the action, but I don't get the same problem blowback with my 73s, nor do I get the dark burnt powder stain 3/4 or farther down the case : )

 

If you can get an 800fps 200gr bullet to not spit back out of a Marlin, you can make a lot of friends bt telling them the load you're using.

 

(My emocons are working backwards, so I can't put 'em in anymore.)

 

CR

I would be happy to give you the load, I have been using it for 35+ years. IF it was allowed to do so.

800 fps in a 24" bbl rifle......Don't think so....

Mine are more like 950fps.

In my .44 loads I use a .44 special load(in a mag case)w/Unique, 240 RNFP and a firm roll crimp.

No B/back issues ever in either of my Marlin .44's.

Cheers,

LG

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Given this, then your load REALLY should be tuned to feed as best you can through the rifle. That 94 AE will be what slows you down, and can choke on loads that are not right for it. Find a bullet design and an OAL that gives you 95+ % feed reliability from mag to chamber, using YOUR speed of cycling the action. That gun will, even when tuned, like a firm and moderately slow stroke.

 

I'll predict it will be the first gun you move on from (as it was mine).

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Same here just got a 73 today to use as my main match rifle and will use my 94 as back up, the 94 cost me a lot of time when it jammed but it was me not the rifle, under the clock I wouldn't lever it far and hard enough

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Newbie to the sport, so want to get all the "experienced" information that I can gather. I did use the search engine to see what has been written about before, and wanted to ask about a few items. I have decided to use Clays to start out and see how things work out. I am solely relying on the Reloading Guides, so there is absolutely no guesswork on my part. Besides, smarter guys than me have blown stuff up.

My questions are these:

1. Does the amount of space left in the casing using this powder (Clays) have any effect on ignition?

2. Do you load rifle loads any differently than you do pistol loads?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.....and dull ones too..

Thanks for any information you can give. I know that specific recipes are a no-no here and agree with that. If you want to PM or e-mail anything of value, feel free.

 

Thanks,

TT

Howdy TT,

 

I reload the cartridge for maximum accuracy out of my pistols, and for reliable feeding in my rifles.

The pistols are fixed sights, I want them to be POA=POI with tight groups,like these two left side groups: Trail Boss in .45 Colt.

The two right side groups are using a 180 LRN,not my cup of tea.

 

My rifles have adjustable sights, so I zero them at 25 yds and try to stay sub-2" at that distance. These loads do - and

they're using a 250 Gr LRNFP loaded to COL of about 1.60 or slightly under.

 

I also use a loading with Tite-Group - which is every bit as good and accurate, but around a 135 f/s faster in my pistols, at around 735 f/s.

I like that load every bit as much, but it's one click more elevation on both of my my Rossi 92's . . .

 

HTH,

Shadow Catcher

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Maybe it's the orientation of the action, but I don't get the same problem blowback with my 73s, nor do I get the dark burnt powder stain 3/4 or farther down the case : )

 

If you can get an 800fps 200gr bullet to not spit back out of a Marlin, you can make a lot of friends bt telling them the load you're using.

 

(My emocons are working backwards, so I can't put 'em in anymore.)

 

CR

Thought the post was about 45colt.

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I currently use a 200 gr bullet by SNS Casting (sold by Dillon) in .45 Colt and .45 Schofield cases. I have used Bullseye and American Select, but have been using Winchester 231 because I had a couple of kegs of it. When I'm out of that I'll use Winchester Superlite, also because I have several kegs of it. I've gotten spoiled loading one round for .38 Special and wouldn't mind finding a common load for .45 pistol and rifle. It has to feed well in the rifle, but since they have adjustable sights, must work first in the pistols. Enjoy.

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When I first started, I bought my shotgun shells and reloaded my pistol and rifle brass useing TITEGROUP. Then I started shooting BP in everything, BUT sometimes I shoot smokeless. I like to have just one type of smokeless propellent around for SG, pistol and rifle so I settled on GREEN DOT. I don't know if it's the best or worse, but every thing works correctly and I can hit the targets.

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You're getting a lot of knowledgable advice. Without meaning any disrespect, you can safely ignore almost all of it. You're not a Navy SEAL on a life-and-death sniper mission, you're a newbie Cowboy who's going to be shooting for fun at oversized targets slightly more than an arm's length away. Start with Clays, stay within the published limits, and adjust as you find necessary or desirable as you go. Get a little experience under your belt so you know what questions to ask, and also know why you're asking them. But first, have fun.

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You're getting a lot of knowledgable advice. Without meaning any disrespect, you can safely ignore almost all of it. You're not a Navy SEAL on a life-and-death sniper mission, you're a newbie Cowboy who's going to be shooting for fun at oversized targets slightly more than an arm's length away. Start with Clays, stay within the published limits, and adjust as you find necessary or desirable as you go. Get a little experience under your belt so you know what questions to ask, and also know why you're asking them. But first, have fun.

I agree about all the knowledgable advice about this subject. I kind of new this may bring a myriad of opinions as to my questions. A little concerning with added comments concerning the my choice of rifle for this, but we'll have to see what happens. I appreciate all of the responses and have pretty much surmised the following:

 

1. Yes, some of you have been using Clays and have no issue with it in the casing.

2. Some do and some don't load to different specs for pistol and rifle. Seems this can be dictated by the rifle and personal preference.

 

Thank you all for your input and may see some of you at my first match at Firelands in April.

TT

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My shooting buddy loads 45 for both rifle and pistol. He uses the same load of powder for both, but uses a lighter bullet for the pistol rounds. Using a lighter bullet will help you better control the pistol recoil. The heavier bullet in will increase the chamber sealing capability, thus reducing the amount of fouling you get in your rifle.

 

If you decide to use the same bullet weight for both rifle and pistol, my personal recommendation would be to use 200 grain. If you want to vary the weights, use 250 grain for the rifle, and maybe 180 grain for the pistol. Don't use anything lighter than 200 grain in the rifle. Unless you want to cast your own bullets, I have always had good service from both Missouri Bullet and Rim Rock Bullets.

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T.T.,

 

As far as loading different amounts of powder for pistol and rifle in CAS I must confess to being a coffee can reloader. I reload my 45 Colts on a progressive press and after being loaded are stored in coffee cans. It is too much trouble for me to change the powder charge a few grain on my progressive and it adds a unnecessary bruden of inventory control both at home and on the loading table. For minute of CAS I have never seen a compelling reason for different loads.

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You're getting a lot of knowledgable advice. Without meaning any disrespect, you can safely ignore almost all of it. You're not a Navy SEAL on a life-and-death sniper mission, you're a newbie Cowboy who's going to be shooting for fun at oversized targets slightly more than an arm's length away. Start with Clays, stay within the published limits, and adjust as you find necessary or desirable as you go. Get a little experience under your belt so you know what questions to ask, and also know why you're asking them. But first, have fun.

Yeah, sure . . after all, why utilize all this knowledge freely offered by folks who love this game when you

can settle for the minimal amount of effort and not bother your pretty little head over it . . .

 

No disrespect taken.

 

sheesh!

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I load the same for both rifle and pistol. Use a 200 great bullet with Trailboss just below Max. As per what a hodgodon rep told me I use the Lee Factory Crime Die with 3/4 of a turn. I never get any blowby in my face shooting a 73

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I have used Red Dot for my CAS 45s for 22-23 years now. I picked it because it was frugal (a third less for the same velocity as Unique). Its also a good powder for lots of different handgun calibers and shotgun shells (I believe the last is true for Clays as well). I have never used a different load for rifle and pistol, it would just complicate things. But, I can see the point if you wanted to load really low recoil loads for the revolvers. But then, I would recommend that you go to a shorter case like 45 Schofield or 45 cowboy (what ever its name is).

 

In any case, enjoy your self and be safe.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

I use Trailboss now for all of my 45 colt stuff. It's 165 gr moly coated and 75 PF in the hand guns and who knows what in the rifles. I have a few buckles and trophy's using this load if ya count that kind of stuff :huh:

 

I used to shoot 185's in the rifle but got tired of keeping track of thousands of rounds of this and that. Now my whole crew shoots the same load and since the kids are involved and my gal I don't wanna give them a double charge of anything. This is almost impossible with Trailboss because you will notice the case is overflowing. Other powders clean easier but thats the sacrifice I make.

 

As far as blow by all chambers are cut to SAAMI specs and a new reamer that is nice and full size will cut a larger chamer (by thousandths) than a reamer that has cut 50 chambers. The Marlin will let blowby past the bolt raceway somtimes and give ya a little and it's no big deal if ya have your glasses on. A 73 has two places that the firing pin extension goes thru before getting to your glasses and this usually redirects the blowby upward. If you ever shoot a stage from the hip you will be able to attest to that.

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