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Geronimo - An American Legend


Curley Fryes

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This movie was on last night. Really shows both sides. Shows the fierceness of the Apache and also shows the humilation the cavalry put the Native Americans through. One of the best lines of the movie was when Geronimo said "With all this land, why does the white eye want it all?" There was no answer to that line.

 

 

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This movie was on last night. Really shows both sides. Shows the fierceness of the Apache and also shows the humilation the cavalry put the Native Americans through. One of the best lines of the movie was when Geronimo said "With all this land, why does the white eye want it all?" There was no answer to that line.

 

 

 

 

Maybe the answer should have been, "Because we need the land to build farms, towns and a railroad and civilization. We don't want to live in teepees and be hunter gatherers?"

The Indians were about 1000 years behind the rest of the known world. They didn't even have the wheel! Don't get me wrong I love the Native American culture but they were far behind in their technology. Rye

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An excellent movie.

And their lack of technology was no excuse for what was done to them by the US govt.

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Sometimes technology ain't all it's cracked up to be.

 

Lot to admire about the Native culture.

 

An Indian Chief was once asked by a white government official:

"You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

 

The Chief nodded in agreement.

 

The official continued, "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

 

The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied:

"When white man find this land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

 

Then the chief leaned back and smiled.

 

"Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."

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So very true.

 

However there was much to be said for "civilization", which provided medicine and food in time of

want.

 

As to the tactics of the Government, it was very disappointing to say the least. But then the same could be said for the black man's plight following the civil war. An opportunity to weave these cultures into the fabric of our society was lost and years of frustration and disfranchisement have resulted,

leading to special treatment and social programs.

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So very true.

 

However there was much to be said for "civilization", which provided medicine and food in time of

want.

 

As to the tactics of the Government, it was very disappointing to say the least. But then the same could be said for the black man's plight following the civil war. An opportunity to weave these cultures into the fabric of our society was lost and years of frustration and disfranchisement have resulted,

leading to special treatment and social programs.

 

Funny thing, civilization. While the Indian tribes may not have been technologically advanced many were very civilized indeed. Complex societies, tribal governments, permanent settlements, trade, treaties with other groups, etc.

The tactics of the government were despicable and in some cases effectively genocidal, Sad but true. One can only hope that such things would not happen today.

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Funny thing, civilization. While the Indian tribes may not have been technologically advanced many were very civilized indeed. Complex societies, tribal governments, permanent settlements, trade, treaties with other groups, etc.

The tactics of the government were despicable and in some cases effectively genocidal, Sad but true. One can only hope that such things would not happen today.

 

And yet it is a daily occurance around the world. Just because we are ahead of the curve doesn't meant the curve has disappeared.

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Okay, granted the government committed atrocities against the Native Americans. No excuse for it. However, as we look at history...the Assyrians, the Mongols, the Huns, the Celts, the Saxons, ad infinitum,... we see that that's just the name of the game. If you saw some land that you wanted and you had more muscle than the guy that was already there, you went and killed the other guy, raped his women (some historians actually call that "promulgating hybrid vigor"), and enslaved all survivors. Sure, it doesn't make it right, but that's the way it has been throughout history. Again, there's no excuse for it, but that doesn't change historical fact.

 

I'm certainly not deprecating the noble red man, but when we start talking about how the "white man" introduced all sorts of "white man diseases" to the Native American...okay. As someone mentioned, "It's a black page in US history." Agreed. If I remember correctly, though, didn't the Native Americans introduce Columbus to tobacco? I also read that his men contracted venereal disease through their contact with the Native American women.

 

Last I checked, we've pretty much eradicated small pox, but we still have lung cancer and syphilis.

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Okay, granted the government committed atrocities against the Native Americans. No excuse for it. However, as we look at history...the Assyrians, the Mongols, the Celts, the Saxons, ad infinitum,... we see that that's just the name of the game. If you saw some land that you wanted and you had more muscle than the guy that was already there, you went and killed the other guy, raped his women (some historians actually call that "promulgating hybrid vigor"), and enslaved all survivors. Sure, it doesn't make it right, but that's the way it has been throughout history. Again, there's no excuse for it, but that doesn't change historical fact.

 

I'm certainly not deprecating the noble red man, but when we start talking about how the "white man" introduced all sorts of "white man diseases" to the Native American...okay. As someone mentioned, "It's a black page in US history." Agreed. If I remember correctly, though, didn't the Native Americans introduce Columbus to tobacco? I also read that his men contracted venereal disease through their contact with the Native American women.

 

Last I checked, we've pretty much eradicated small pox, but we still have lung cancer and syphilis.

 

 

They also had some pretty wicked tortures and stealing the "white" women and enslaving them didn't make 'em look so good.

I know the "white" man did 'em wrong too but they weren't exactly tiptoeing through the tulips when the white man got here in fact they were warring against themselves for possession of hunting grounds and such.

Look I'm not downing the Indian culture there was alot of good in their customs but c'mon they were 1000 years behind the Greeks and the Romans fer gosh sakes.:blink: What were we supposed to do?

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I feel no guilt about the past. I feel no shame. I can only be ashamed of my own actions, not others'.

I do not justify the depredations that took place on either side. There were tribal wars for centuries that were pretty brutal. Human nature I suppose. I also do not go the "noble savage" route that post Victorians invented. I am a former member of the 7th Cavalry. But I recognize that the unit did not cover itself with honor during the Indian Wars. I realize that all things should be taken in historical context. But right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

I simply grieve for the lack of humanity during the sometimes dark early years of our country. :FlagAm:

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I feel no guilt about the past. I feel no shame. I can only be ashamed of my own actions, not others'.

I do not justify the depredations that took place on either side. There were tribal wars for centuries that were pretty brutal. Human nature I suppose. I also do not go the "noble savage" route that post Victorians invented. I am a former member of the 7th Cavalry. But I recognize that the unit did not cover itself with honor during the Indian Wars. I realize that all things should be taken in historical context. But right is right and wrong is wrong.

 

I simply grieve for the lack of humanity during the sometimes dark early years of our country. :FlagAm:

 

Well said Bob, it was a shame all the way around. Rye

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It is a cold, hard fact that every nation there is or has been was built when one powerful group oppressed a weaker group. These oppressed groups could be weaker in number, technology, culture and/or other ways.

It is also a card, hard fact that the Native American groups oppressed and wiped out many other native groups. The native Americans in this area progressed from Cave dwellers to Zuni to Anasazi to Pueblo and finally the Apache (I may be incorrect on the order, but you get the idea).

Watch 'Dances with Wolves' and see how the producers made the Souix look like they had experienced this life forever. In reality, the horse was taken from the Spanish in the 1ate 1500s and used as a pack animal so that the plains indians could traverse the entire plains, something that they could never do before. It was likely the mid-1700s before they actually started riding the horses, only 100 years or so before Costner's role went west.

Land is a finite resource that will forever be fought over and won by the most powerful. You might not like this idea. You may even think that it is harsh and uncaring. Who lived in your area some 300 years ago: Mohican, Choctaw, Cherokee, Illinois, Michigamme, Tenassee, Seminole, Souix, Yani? We all enjoy the right of the victors since that time.

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