Frederick Jackson Turner Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Nice day at Hole in the Wall, up near Lake Piru, yesterday. Weather was warm and sunny, and we had a bumper crop of new shooters! The newbies felt really welcome; everyone was lending guns and leather; it was a prety heartwarming display of Why We Shoot SASS! Unfortunately, one of the new shooters managed to get a cartridge cocked in the loading port of his original '97, and the right side extractor crushed the primer. KABOOM! Kaput - one '97 (salvageable!) and one sad, but unhurt cowboy. He Cowboyed up; simply borrowed another gun, and finished the match! A sympathetic crowd gathered 'round, to regale him with tales of How It Happened To Me. Damage - receiver appears to be ok. Sheared through the action bar, blew the right side extractor to kingdom come. More info, when I tear it down tomorrow. Be careful out there, folks! Those things were meant to be fed from the tube, I guess. Cheers, FJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOODFOX , sass#34179 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Glad every one is ok keep us informed on the fix . Woodfox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 First of all, very glad nobody was hurt! But you made a great point,FJT: Be careful out there, folks! Those things were meant to be fed from the tube, I guess. Very true ..The 97 Winchester was designed as a repeater, not a single shotNot that you can't single load it through the open ejection port like most all of us do, but it was never designed to be loaded that way.It was designed to load the magazine tube, pump it, chamber a round from the mag tube,and fire..never as a single shot to be loaded through the port.We have all probably been more than a little lucky not to have had more incidents like this with a 97! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Outlaw single loading, that'll do it. Glad no-one was hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Interesting - see folks all the time single loading and shooting the '97 without issue. Done right it should be safe. Anyway, glad the pard is OK and got though the match. Sassy Sunshine will be using our newly acquired Winchester '97, but not slam firing it. Maybe that was part of the issue?? I probably would have had to change my underwear if that happened to me GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yikes! Glad everyone's OK. Most 97 blow-ups that I've heard of result in the bolt shattering the receiver behind the port - glad this one's salvageable. Like I've heard others say, they ain't makin' any new 100-year-old guns; it's a cryin' shame to see one destroyed! Sounds like it was a beautiful day up in the canyon. I know I enjoyed my visit there year-before-last (especially shootin' that other sport on the other side of the creek!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Interesting - see folks all the time single loading and shooting the '97 without issue. Done right it should be safe. Anyway, glad the pard is OK and got though the match. Sassy Sunshine will be using our newly acquired Winchester '97, but not slam firing it. Maybe that was part of the issue?? I probably would have had to change my underwear if that happened to me GG ~ You don't have to be slam-firing to blow one up like this. Just get the base of the shell only half-way in the port, and closing the slide rams the extractor into the primer... BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Long Story, US Cavalry Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Damage - receiver appears to be ok. Sheared through the action bar, blew the right side extractor to kingdom come. More info, when I tear it down tomorrow. Be interesting to see pics and a step-by-step in this thread. Repair or replace the action bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Two words: Shell flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Outlaw single loading, that'll do it. Nope!! The shell kinda bounces off of the fast moving carrier regardless. When a shell is single loaded it is in the same position as it is when put on the carrier from the mag tube. As the gun is closed the carrier makes the shell defy gravity and head up so the bolt can drive it into the chamber. The cartridge guide or shell flag comes into play to keep the shell from changing angles and flying half way out the port. When the guide/flag fails to operate properly the shell does just this thing and a right extractor makes a great firing pin. 97 shooters should check their guide/flag for a little resistance. If the guide/flag moves or falls to easily then problems can arise. If there is a problem a shooter should get the carrier assembly to someone who is qualified to repair the problem. Easy fix if ya have the proper tools... The action lock bar or inertia lock has no role in keeping this from happening as it only comes into play once the action is completely closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Two words: Shell flag. Amen ! That silly piece of metal is there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Two words: Shell flag. I was just about to suggest that. The one time I had a shell do that (didn't go off, thankfully), it was because the shell flag wasn't coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You don't have to be slam-firing to blow one up like this. Just get the base of the shell only half-way in the port, and closing the slide rams the extractor into the primer... BOOM! Thanks WJ - we are new to the '97 and need to learn the 'yeas' and 'nays' of it's operation GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Wind-Walker #36748 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 FJT Glad nobody was hurt..it is exciting when you are the TO also....................ask me how I know........... I sent you a PM regards......Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Two words: Shell flag. My thoughts exactly! Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Howdy Scary. I guess the answer is to be sure the shell is all the way into the receiver and not hanging halfway out of the port before closing the action. An interesting side note. I shoot Trap with an old Winchester Model 12. I am never in a hurry, so I load the shell into the ejection port and completely seat it in the chamber with my thumb before closing the action. As far as I can tell, there is no shell flag on the Model 12 action. At least two of my Model 12s do not have them. My other Model 12, which has been retrofitted into a fancy Trap gun does have a shell flag, but I suspect that is an aftermarket modification made by whoever transformed it into a fancy Trap gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Will Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I keyed in on 'new shooters'. I know that we on occasion just let individuals handle and shoot our firearms to get them interested .... and many do not have the skills or knowledge on how to operate the guns we compete with. SINGLE ACTION SHOOTING SOCIETY Shooters Handbook Copyright © Single Action Shooting Society, Inc 2012 Eighteenth Edition SAFETY PRACTICES FIRST, LAST, AND ALWAYS Our sport, by its very nature, has the potential to be dangerous and a serious accident can occur. Every participant in a SASS match is expected to be a safety officer. Each shooter’s first responsibility is for his or her own safe conduct, but all shooters are expected to remain alert for actions by others that are unsafe. Any Range Officer or shooter may confront any participant about an observed unsafe situation, and it is expected the matter will quickly be corrected and not repeated. Any argument concerning the correction of a safety related matter can be expected to result in that shooter being ejected from the range. 19. All shooters must demonstrate rudimentary familiarity and proficiency with the firearms being used. Shooters are expected to perform within their capabilities at all times. SASS matches are not the forums in which to learn basic firearms handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Wind-Walker #36748 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Deacon Good rule......but does not always apply to the this type of incident........ The "ONE" time I was the Timer and this happened........ the individual was an experienced shooter. He was loading and the shell got cockeed in the port and the extractor hit the primer.....(see comments about flags above) So it can happen to anybody.............new or experienced....... Regards....Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinch, SASS#29433 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Howdy As far as I can tell, there is no shell flag on the Model 12 action. At least two of my Model 12s do not have them. My other Model 12, which has been retrofitted into a fancy Trap gun does have a shell flag, but I suspect that is an aftermarket modification made by whoever transformed it into a fancy Trap gun. Yea different carrier and different feed angle... I think My 93 has a bigger port and a ridgid cartridge guide on the carrier and is way more dangerous than a 97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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