Assassin Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hey Cobb, I agree with you, don't bother going if you're not happy with the venue to start with. I have not attended WR or EOT since the abolishment of the Modern class. I'd just end up saying something to the WB members and they might send my life membership money back and tell me to never come back. Travel aint cheap like it was in the late 90's and early 2000's. One must be choosey when picking destinations or pick several venues in local proximity of each other. Hope to see you soon, shoot straight and shoot often! LL' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Camp Town Lady was just filling out applications & writing a check for a match that we were really anticipating attending. She noticed that the available categories did not include Senior Duelist & she called to inquire as to whether this was an oversite. It was not, the category was not offered. I am fully aware of the prevailing SASS wire opinions that there are too many categories, there is a need to eliminate classes, & elimination of categories is at the whim of match directors & their clubs. I have no issue with these opinions nor do I have any issue with shooting local matches in any category, one or two handed. My conflict is whether to spend a considerable sum in travel, motels, meals, & match fees to compete in another category. I'll be 70 this year & I know darn well that my abilities aren't what they were 15 years ago. I am really thinking of sending my $ in another direction & on a match that recognizes my category. The reason for this post is not to vent but to start people thinking & discussing this issue. I am aware of the cost factor for furnishing awards for the lesser populated classes. In my opinion a computer printed certificate for the thin classes would suffice, just anounce that instead of a tin cup the award will be paper & let it go. We're not in this for the quality of the trophy but if I'm going to spend to compete I'd like to do in in my own category. Thanks for the read. Ruff Cobb If this is a state match or above they need to have Senior Duelist. Heck all our local matches 'round these parts has SD, it's a pretty big category. Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee, SASS #266 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seldom Seen #16162 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ruff Cobb, I think you would do well to adopt Ronald Reagans attitude when he was debating Walter Mondale for President; "I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Cobb Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have a situation update on the category issue. I just received a very polite telephone call from a representative of the SASS Club hosting the annual match referenced in OP. It was explained to me that a series of SNAFUs & oversight issues had resulted in a match application mistake & subsequent incorrect telephone information that the category was not available. The representative advised that the Senior Duelist Category was available and gave a sincere apology for the misunderstanding and was planning on correcting the online applications and that the contact person was also up to speed. I totally accept the explanation & intend to register for the match. In closing I would like to express my gratitude to the club for correcting this issue and my thanks to all who posted thoughtful responses on this matter. Billy Boots had it correct when he thought it was incredible, it was. For my part I'll go for a third opinion next time. Thanks All & best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 And some say the SASS WAHR ain't SASS... humph! Way to go, Cobb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This is a decision that should be made by each individual. Putting it on the wire is like asking a group of people you don't really know what you should have for breakfast. Make a decision and stick with it. Now, go have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Eggs! sb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Creek Law Dog Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I like the senior duelist catagory. This past summer, I came in first at both the Canadian Championship of Cowboy Action Shooting and the SASS Canadian National Championship. The other guy came in second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have a situation update on the category issue. I just received a very polite telephone call from a representative of the SASS Club hosting the annual match referenced in OP. It was explained to me that a series of SNAFUs & oversight issues had resulted in a match application mistake & subsequent incorrect telephone information that the category was not available. The representative advised that the Senior Duelist Category was available and gave a sincere apology for the misunderstanding and was planning on correcting the online applications and that the contact person was also up to speed. I totally accept the explanation & intend to register for the match. In closing I would like to express my gratitude to the club for correcting this issue and my thanks to all who posted thoughtful responses on this matter. Billy Boots had it correct when he thought it was incredible, it was. For my part I'll go for a third opinion next time. Thanks All & best regards Glad it worked out for ya! GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Howdy Pards, I said earlier, that the primary criteria for my attendance is closeness and who else will be there. I do not expect others who are partial to certain underpopulated categories to share my opinion. However, I do want to restate my disgust (I've posted this many times before) for clubs that do not offer all SASS-approved categories. The reason this really ticks me off is that, in 2005, the following agenda item passet 242 for, 52 against, 1 abstain. "Should all SASS State and higher championships be required to honor all SASS Categories even if there is only one participant?" At a private meeting of State and above Match Directors, it was decided to ignore the wishes of the membership as voted by the TGs, leaving the determination up to MDs. At this year's Convention, it was announced that, starting in 2013, State and Regional matches will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than five entries in a category. Winter Range (WR) and End of Trail (EOT) will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than ten entries in a category. I think it is absurd for the National and World Championship to not offer all approved categories. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Howdy Pards, I said earlier, that the primary criteria for my attendance is closeness and who else will be there. I do not expect others who are partial to certain underpopulated categories to share my opinion. However, I do want to restate my disgust (I've posted this many times before) for clubs that do not offer all SASS-approved categories. The reason this really ticks me off is that, in 2005, the following agenda item passet 242 for, 52 against, 1 abstain. "Should all SASS State and higher championships be required to honor all SASS Categories even if there is only one participant?" At a private meeting of State and above Match Directors, it was decided to ignore the wishes of the membership as voted by the TGs, leaving the determination up to MDs. At this year's Convention, it was announced that, starting in 2013, State and Regional matches will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than five entries in a category. Winter Range (WR) and End of Trail (EOT) will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than ten entries in a category. I think it is absurd for the National and World Championship to not offer all approved categories. Regards, Allie Mo +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Allie, I am with you. I shoot in a under populated catagory, is it my fault that more women do not want to shoot black? I pay my money like anyone else. Why should I have to change what I shoot? Also someone else said that we should get a ribbon and not the trophy if it is a small catagory. Again I paid my $200 why should I get less of a award. I worked just a hard. Maybe I should get to shoot free!? Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Miss Filly, I mean you no offense but i would like to discuss your position if you dont mind. if you really want to shoot a certain way, say, LFCD or LFCGF (i'm just guessing) there's no rule against shooting BP in a non BP catagory and you can have all the fun you want, check your scores at the end of the day and assess your own performance. If you really want to show how you stack up against the competition, you can put the BP away for a match. if you really want an award regardless of how you shot, or who you shot against, i'm sure most MDs would be happy to tell you where they buy the awards. i appreciate your honesty about wanting the same quality award as every one else. i dont believe anyone cherishes a piece of paper as much as a Frederick Remington replica. a single shooters entry fees do not cover just one award. bathrooms, rental equipment, side match awards, all come from those fees. that tent and those 700+ chairs at the award ceremony weren't donated. should you shoot for free? can you go four days with out sitting down, or using the facilities? do you want a badge and a shooters book? Allie Moe is exactly right about state and above matches which is why people are reluctant to add "SASS approved" cats. with 36 approved cats thats 360 main match awards. how many state champ matches have 500 shooters show up? the fees keep going up to offset the costs and the attendance keeps going down due to the cost increases. food for thought. with warm regards and all due respect, cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 "A single shooters entry does not cover just one award." It doesn't have to. Take a sold out match, 400 paid shooters. Income is set, Expenses are set, no matter how categories are populated. If a category is offered it should be awarded. so what if nobody shows up for a category? Lots of ways to deal with that, first place plaques could have inexpensive stick on category name plates, have an empty category and there for an extra plaque? Hand out an extra spirit of the game award, waddy award, vendor award, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugly, SASS #18106 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ruff, I know just what you're saying. I remember you from a few big matches (you always beat me like a drum). That said, I will be going to a couple of big matches, a Regional too, that don't offer my category and I'll have to compete against younger shooters and, that's okay with me; I like to see how I stack up against the competition but, I will be traveling with some good friends and meeting old and new friends at these matches and, that makes the trip enjoyable for me. Like you, I'm on a fixed income but I'm only paying for myself so, my expenses aren't as much as you. With the expenses being what they are, if I didn't enjoy myself at a match for whatever reason, I wouldn't be going back until things changed. Hope to see you down the trail somewhere again. Take care, Ugly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 CC, That is my point why should I have to compete against the girls that are shooting smokeless and be at a disadvantage because I want to shoot black? Why should I have to load smokeless to shoot competetively with them? Why should I have to make the concession when yes LFCD is what I shoot when LFCGF is not offered. Why should we have to pack both kinds of rounds and have to bring more with us? Yes I can do any of the above, but why when I pay my money and they have my catagory on the entry form do I have to change catagories when I get there because there were not enough. Now I have traveled many hours and packed for black now I get there and am thrown into either a smokeless class and having to shoot black (because that is what I packed) or a 2 handed class. Not fair. We were the match director of our local match for the last 2 years and put on the annual. we offered every class and offered 1st place, 2nd place and 3rd place on all and up to 4th on the one that was the largest. We had a cut off so we knew what to order and did not cost us any more to make everyone happy. all first places got the same thing even if there was 1. Ladies catagories are historically smaller classes, especially the black ones. Why should we be punished for that? Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 CC, That is my point why should I have to compete against the girls that are shooting smokeless and be at a disadvantage because I want to shoot black? Why should I have to load smokeless to shoot competetively with them? Why should I have to make the concession when yes LFCD is what I shoot when LFCGF is not offered. Why should we have to pack both kinds of rounds and have to bring more with us? Yes I can do any of the above, but why when I pay my money and they have my catagory on the entry form do I have to change catagories when I get there because there were not enough. Now I have traveled many hours and packed for black now I get there and am thrown into either a smokeless class and having to shoot black (because that is what I packed) or a 2 handed class. Not fair. We were the match director of our local match for the last 2 years and put on the annual. we offered every class and offered 1st place, 2nd place and 3rd place on all and up to 4th on the one that was the largest. We had a cut off so we knew what to order and did not cost us any more to make everyone happy. all first places got the same thing even if there was 1. Ladies catagories are historically smaller classes, especially the black ones. Why should we be punished for that? Painted Filly Thank you PAINTED FILLY, for taking the time to respond. my point is that you have the choice. you decide if you want to compete or make smoke. how is it really any different than being in a class by yourself, other than taking home an award by default? we are not entitled to awards because we pay an entry fee. you said you awarded up to 109 awards at your annual, if i may ask, how many shooters did you have, what was the award and entry fee? i completely agree that if its on the app it should be at the match. i hate the idea of collapsing classes and causing shooters to bring twice the equipment like B western leather or C&B pistols. i shoot different guns when i shoot BP so it really is double the load. i personally think we have waaaaay too many cats. if its not on our app and enough people request it, FCGF for example, we'll add it because its a lot easier to add one and make people happy then to delete one and upset them. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Howdy Pards, I said earlier, that the primary criteria for my attendance is closeness and who else will be there. I do not expect others who are partial to certain underpopulated categories to share my opinion. However, I do want to restate my disgust (I've posted this many times before) for clubs that do not offer all SASS-approved categories. The reason this really ticks me off is that, in 2005, the following agenda item passet 242 for, 52 against, 1 abstain. "Should all SASS State and higher championships be required to honor all SASS Categories even if there is only one participant?" At a private meeting of State and above Match Directors, it was decided to ignore the wishes of the membership as voted by the TGs, leaving the determination up to MDs. At this year's Convention, it was announced that, starting in 2013, State and Regional matches will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than five entries in a category. Winter Range (WR) and End of Trail (EOT) will have the option of dropping a category if there are less than ten entries in a category. I think it is absurd for the National and World Championship to not offer all approved categories. Regards, Allie Mo My thoughts, if the category is on the application, the expectation should be that the category would be shot. If the match ever decides to close a category, it should work like this. Applications close 90 days out. Decisions are made regarding closed categories, contestants are given the option of entering a different category or receive full refund. This must be done long before matches so that comptetators never get stuck with a non refundable ticket. If the match cannot abide by the constraints above shoot the category and if less than 5 folks maybe only award a 1st place, but whatever the sliding scale for awards will be have that information included in the contestants confirmation letter. The contestant should then be afforded the oportunity for a no penalty withdrawal. Kinda boils down to truth in advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 CC, That is my point why should I have to compete against the girls that are shooting smokeless and be at a disadvantage because I want to shoot black? Why should I have to load smokeless to shoot competetively with them? Why should I have to make the concession when yes LFCD is what I shoot when LFCGF is not offered. Why should we have to pack both kinds of rounds and have to bring more with us? Yes I can do any of the above, but why when I pay my money and they have my catagory on the entry form do I have to change catagories when I get there because there were not enough. Now I have traveled many hours and packed for black now I get there and am thrown into either a smokeless class and having to shoot black (because that is what I packed) or a 2 handed class. Not fair. We were the match director of our local match for the last 2 years and put on the annual. we offered every class and offered 1st place, 2nd place and 3rd place on all and up to 4th on the one that was the largest. We had a cut off so we knew what to order and did not cost us any more to make everyone happy. all first places got the same thing even if there was 1. Ladies catagories are historically smaller classes, especially the black ones. Why should we be punished for that? Painted Filly PF, I am in much to same situation as you although much less chance since in a mans class. I underestand. It seems SASS wants BP shooters because of authenticity (the smoke looks good and of course it does), and all BP shooters are even in an open age categories, but if the numbers are not there then where did the fault lie. We are doing our part spending the money to get there, etc, yet like you say, do we pack (smokeless ammo) and spend that money knowing we may have to do just as RC in the OP suggested, to shoot in a category where he really were not happy to shoot. With expenses looking to get even higher, matches such as WR and especially EOT, could very well suffer in filling some categories to ten competitors and this can certainly include classes of the younger set. I understand what CC is saying, some shooters look at it that way which is fine, I just do not, nor do I think you (PF) do, maybe the competitive blood runs more in my veins. I am well into senior age and could shoot SD aganist my friend RC, but I want and pay the $$ to shoot in an open age category that involves a low number of BP shooters. Making the decision of category to shoot when planning a annual match is easy, however thinking that I might get disappointed when I get there could sure change my plan making. As to OP, I think RCs situation worked out just as it should have and I am truely glad for him and C Lady. Look forward to seeing them and others at WR. As to WR not having FCD due to ten shooters (if that were the case), I'd probably go anyway because I like the match........even if I had to compete aganist Cobb. ha. If I was looking at a match of less interest that canceled my original entry category due to numbers then I would start talking myself out of it as RC was at starting of thread. As you said PF, why should a shooter by punished? Not sure what the answer is to this situation, but fear it to get worse. As so many have suggested above, shooters in many categories will just have to weigh the facts that make them feel more comfortable when making choices of matches to attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hmmmm - figgered post#40 said it all in regards to this thread.... ...but the beat goes on (like that song) GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 BB, I am competative. I don't care how many in my catagory I just want to shoot what I want. If there is 1 me or if there are 10. I still shoot the same way. Yes do I want to win my catagory sure but I also like to see where I finish over all. But I should still get the same award even if it is just me. I don't pick my cataogry based on # I pick based on what I want to shoot. I just switched to Double Duelist so not as good now with 2 hands, amazing how quick that goes away. But I still want to shoot black and not against the guys, nothing against you I should get that choice. I really want to do FCGF but that is not offered at WR for example so I shoot FCD. Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 CC, We had 95 shooters, 25 catagories. Went to up to 3 on all but '49 went went 4 deep. Cost of awards was $1000(that also included our overall, side match, top gun and clean shooters) entry fees 45 members, 65 non members, 55 spouse and 25 for juniors and buckaroos. Free for board members(but they still had to pay 25 for the dinner). Plus I gve away about $300 in door prises. This is the Colorado Cowboys. Yes we had several in their own catagory. Me included, was not my fault but that is how it went. 2011 Categories This is the FINAL. We have the following categories for the Badger Mountain Range War: Buckarette: Tattle Tale Tai Cowgirl: Spitfire, Prairie Blossom Rose, Riverboat Annie, Turquoise Queen Cowboy: Mountain Menace, Cobra Cat, Slow Shot, Lord Taylor, Hundred Proof, Badlands Maurice Lady Wrangler: Anxious Annie, Scarlet Rebel, Six Gun Sugar Vixen, Annie Rock Wrangler: Scary Indian Dude, Slippery Rock Bass, Dastardly Dan, Dantankerous Lady 49er: Lil Chickadee, Kate, Bea Ware, Calico Cass, Apache Lady 49er: Turkey Creek, Buzzard Wawkin, Brother Chuck, Rooster Redeye, Samuel Bootz, Shakey, Knockwurst Kid, Black Jack Parker, Desert Eagle, Lone Rock Kid, Trapdoor Doc, Jim Buck Lady Senior: Calico Calie, Misty Rider, Painted Rose Senior: Colorado Horseshoe, Cool Hand Cos, Blazen Vaquero, Stumbleweed, Trigger Happy Ted, Lady Silver Senior: Camptown Lady, Bristlecone Jan Silver Senior: Gardner Kid, Wichita Wayne, Grizz, Texas Tumbleweed, Colorado Deadeye, California Elder Statesman: Rosita Gambler, Lead Shot, Gideon Walker, Black Jack Flagg, Owen, Marshal Hank Duelist: Buick MacKane Senior Duelist: Denton Dancer, Ruff Cobb, Sheriff Leming, Backwoods Bud, Shortstroke, Cherokee Jim Lady Gunfighter: Miss BJ, Calico Mary Gunfighter: Slow Hand Willy, Lightning Cat, Whiskey James, Maker-Wright Frontiersman: Diamond Curly, Fairplay John, El Pueblo, Big Dave Lady Frontier Cartridge: Burgundy Ballou Frontier Cartridge: Iron Horse, Bill Munny, Ric-a-d-Split, Trouble Frontier Cartridge Duelist: Bayou Bob Lady Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter: Painted Filly Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter: WINDY IKE ~ really! el Gato Gordo, Kiowa Kid Classic Cowboy: Spittin Brass, Blackie Stu, Brother King Lady B-Western: Sonora Blaze, San Antonio Rose, Kitty Carbine, Florida Gal, Aspen Filly B-Western: Marshall Lomondo, Cat Tracker Ruff Cobb this is where we shot together this year. Sorry about that forgot till I copied this over! Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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