Tex's Chronicle article

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

Tex wrote well about the 5 proposed changes and why they fared as they did. With the exception of the convoluted proposal that included my pet category, FCGF. Still looking for an answer as to why this is such a hurdle.

 

CR

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

It is beyond time for FCGF as a SASS category ! Adios Sgt. Jake

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Tex wrote well about the 5 proposed changes and why they fared as they did. With the exception of the convoluted proposal that included my pet category, FCGF. Still looking for an answer as to why this is such a hurdle.

 

CR

 

The primary reason for FCGF's failure to acquire the 2/3 majority vote required to be accepted as an "officially recognized" SASS shooting category is the number of clubs/TG's that consistently vote for NO NEW CATEGORIES...despite the outpouring of support here on the Wire(s).

 

The secondary reason is that it has been constantly pointed out that any club or MD currently has the option to ADD any category they wish on their match applications.

 

FWIW, it might have passed at the 2011 Summit as a "stand alone" agenda item if we'd have taken 'one more run' at it...it was decided to combine all of the proposed 'new' categories (including a few 'age-based') into a single agenda item...#5...which, as noted, failed to pass.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

It is beyond time for FCGF as a SASS category ! Adios Sgt. Jake

 

+1

 

 

 

GG ~

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

In addition to the reasons noted by Pale Wolf, another reason raised for not needing FCGF is that you can shoot BP in GF now. FCGF would be nice and I would switch from FCD. But let's face it. The numbers shooting it would be small or non-existent at most matches and a lot of TG's (and apparently their clubs) simply don't want to start another round of adding new categories.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

 

FWIW, it might have passed at the 2011 Summit as a "stand alone" agenda item if we'd have taken 'one more run' at it...it was decided to combine all of the proposed 'new' categories (including a few 'age-based') into a single agenda item...#5...which, as noted, failed to pass.

 

Palewolf - Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

I guess the jist of my post is why not let it be it's own agenda item? Burying it in with a mix of unrelated issues doomed it. Given the chance, even as much as I'd love to see it, I would have voted against the agenda item as written.

 

CR

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Larsen,

I'm curious, is WR offering FCGF this year?

bb

[Anvil Al #59168]

Palewolf - Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

I guess the jist of my post is why not let it be it's own agenda item? Burying it in with a mix of unrelated issues doomed it. Given the chance, even as much as I'd love to see it, I would have voted against the agenda item as written.

 

CR

 

 

I think (could be wrong) that it was a stand alone agenda item in 2010. And was voted down at that time.

Think many of us are just saying enough already.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

In addition to the reasons noted by Pale Wolf, another reason raised for not needing FCGF is that you can shoot BP in GF now. FCGF would be nice and I would switch from FCD. But let's face it. The numbers shooting it would be small or non-existent at most matches and a lot of TG's (and apparently their clubs) simply don't want to start another round of adding new categories.

 

Larson,

 

In this part of the world, at a match with over 100 shooters, we will get 5% or more to sign up when offered. At the first U.S. Open, we got seven FCGF shooters signed up who changed categories when they decided to offer it at the packet pickup. Would have had an 8th, but he only had cross draw leather for shooting FCD. Interest like that may skew my perspective as to how the rest of the country feels.

 

CR

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Larsen,

I'm curious, is WR offering FCGF this year?

bb

 

Howdy BB,

It's not listed on the WR application

...otherwise, I would have signed up for it.

 

I think (could be wrong) that it was a stand alone agenda item in 2010. And was voted down at that time.

Think many of us are just saying enough already.

 

It was a 'stand alone' agenda item at both the 2009 & 2010 TG Summits.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I think (could be wrong) that it was a stand alone agenda item in 2010. And was voted down at that time.

Think many of us are just saying enough already.

 

It was indeed a stand alone in 2010, and just missed passing (on it's 1st try as well). This year they tied it to unrelated items that stood no chance of passing. It really is just one category, no age breakout.

 

CR

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Larsen,

I'm curious, is WR offering FCGF this year?

bb

 

Winter Range recognizes SASS categories. Are you thinking about switching categories?

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Winter Range recognizes SASS categories.

 

Dern Larsen, guess I will just have to try to deal with you and Stone Creek Drifter, who also likes FCGF....not to mention the likes of others like Tame Bill, Buster, Bandit, Gator, to name a few. And, then as in many classes there is always those one does not know about until they get there.....I sure remember a fellow unknown to me at time named Nicki Six Gun who dealed out some whippin to a bunch of us.

 

See ya soon. Any more new buildings in progress?

 

bb

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Dern Larsen, guess I will just have to try to deal with you and Stone Creek Drifter, who also likes FCGF....not to mention the likes of others like Tame Bill, Buster, Bandit, Gator, to name a few. And, then as in many classes there is always those one does not know about until they get there.....I sure remember a fellow unknown to me at time named Nicki Six Gun who dealed out some whippin to a bunch of us.

 

See ya soon. Any more new buildings in progress?

 

bb

 

No new permanent buildings at this time. We have at least two new stage fronts, however. It is going to be fun. You need to try the BP night shoot this year.

[Snakebite]

We've tried it every way... and it just won't get the required 2/3 majority to pass. I support the TGs, but I must admit that I'm getting pretty tired of some guy who represents 10 folks cancelling out the guy who represents 200!

 

Snakebite

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

We've tried it every way... and it just won't get the required 2/3 majority to pass. I support the TGs, but I must admit that I'm getting pretty tired of some guy who represents 10 folks cancelling out the guy who represents 200!

 

Snakebite

Amen.

I would love to shoot FCGF, but my left hand has NO idea what my right hand does. I'll have to stay FCD, it's best for all of us.

[Rev Willy Dunkum, SASS # 61027]

Larson,

 

In this part of the world, at a match with over 100 shooters, we will get 5% or more to sign up when offered. At the first U.S. Open, we got seven FCGF shooters signed up who changed categories when they decided to offer it at the packet pickup. Would have had an 8th, but he only had cross draw leather for shooting FCD. Interest like that may skew my perspective as to how the rest of the country feels.

 

CR

 

And we all switched categories for it knowing full well there were not going to be any awards, plaques or anything to anyone who placed in FCGF. We just wanted to shoot FCGF. Its about having fun not switching so we can get an award.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

And we all switched categories for it knowing full well there were not going to be any awards, plaques or anything to anyone who placed in FCGF. We just wanted to shoot FCGF. Its about having fun not switching so we can get an award.

 

That's my point! if it's a category, we have more chance than to hope they allow it. We also get more participation. Gotta be the most fun you can have with yer clothes on!

 

CR

[Blackwater 53393]

In addition to the reasons noted by Pale Wolf, another reason raised for not needing FCGF is that you can shoot BP in GF now. FCGF would be nice and I would switch from FCD. But let's face it. The numbers shooting it would be small or non-existent at most matches and a lot of TG's (and apparently their clubs) simply don't want to start another round of adding new categories.

 

 

I don't know about other parts of the country, but in the southeast and adjoining states FCGF is a very popular category. If I hadn't been involved in the Tripple Crown last year as a Frontiersman, I'd have switched to FCGF at the Open as well.

 

Perhaps the best tactic to make it happen is to change our aproach to one where all gun specific and clothing specific categories be allowed to shoot whatever discipline they choose. I'd like to shoot gunfighter style in Frontiersman and Ive heard it said that Classic Cowboy should have that option as well.

 

When I saw the proposed changes and how the proposition involving FCGF was laid out, my first thought was that someone had seen fit to feed FCGF the "poison pill", and my second thought was "WHY??". My feeling is that "SOMEBODY" really doesn't want either FCGF specificly, or any new category, and it ain't the TGs.

[Taquila Tab, Sass #25048]

And we all switched categories for it knowing full well there were not going to be any awards, plaques or anything to anyone who placed in FCGF. We just wanted to shoot FCGF. Its about having fun not switching so we can get an award.

I'm with Larsen E. Pettifogger. If you don't care about awards, why can't you just shoot in the Gunfighter category using your BP?

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

Tex.

 

He seems like a fine-fella... but sometimes he don't represent folks. I kinda like him...

 

Oh, well... maybe I shouldn't inject myself...

 

ts

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Guess it doesn't matter to me so much as I shoot Pale Rider Gunfighter and it's recognized in the two big matches I'm plannin' on this year ~ Range War (Michigan state shoot) and Guns of August (Midwest regional)

 

Still believe that FCGF will be 'officially' recognized as its own category someday - one can dream

 

GG ~

[Anvil Al #59168]

I'm with Larsen E. Pettifogger. If you don't care about awards, why can't you just shoot in the Gunfighter category using your BP?

 

 

Yep. Folks can shoot it anytime they like. Just sign up GF and have at it.

 

Have no problem with a club offering if they like. And if they have enough.

 

But we are getting so many categorys that it has become a &*^% joke.

[Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L]

I'm with Larsen E. Pettifogger. If you don't care about awards, why can't you just shoot in the Gunfighter category using your BP?

 

It's still a competition. In the end, it's only braggin' rights, but it would be nice to play against similar styles. Hope springs eternal

 

CR

[Oklahomabound]

...our club is 100% for adding the FCGF as is the several clubs that we shoot with...

 

...this horse ain't dead!

[Blastmaster]

Hmmmm, let me think...

 

I believe I know of about three FCGF shooters in about the same number of clubs and states.

 

Of course I don't get out much so there could be a couple more.

 

Point being, there just ain't very many FCGF shooters in my parts. But they have fun and more power to them.

 

What difference does it make if their was a reconized catagory? Other than a piece of paper? What significance is there if there is just a shooter or two at that match? They still got the bragging rights.

 

The famous saying... "A solution looking for a problem that doesn't really exit".

 

Did I hear correctly that SASS already has 40 different catagories?

 

Blastmaster

 

EDIT: Correction,, I don't know of any FCGF shooters.. My post above was more toward FC duelist.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Perhaps its time to promote the idea of letting fokes have a shot at swapping out the least used category for a new one. No new categories, something new gets gets a shot at life and something dead gets buried. I can understand where many voters are coming from here and I want FCGF as much as most but we did go way overboard with so many new categories over a ten year period. Not to gore someone's cow but age and costume based categories should have never been allowed to proliferate or even enter SASS. If I am still shooting at 100, recognise me by bringing an extra cup of coffee to the match, not by creating a new category just for me. It is also a bad idea to add a red boot group just because a couple of shooters wearing red boots want to narrow their field! Yep, want to have a chance at FCGF, then find a way to trim away what lots and lots of fokes now consider way to many existing categories. It would not be hard to divide and subdivide 'SHOOTING' based categories into something much smaller than what we currently have while including one or two more actual shooting categories BUT we gotta quit spending more time passing out paper than we do shooting! I hope each of us live to be a hundred but that should be celebrated at home or at a nice restaurant, not at a monthly shooting match.

[Blastmaster]

Perhaps its time to promote the idea of letting fokes have a shot at swapping out the least used category for a new one.

So who's "least use catagory" cow do you suggest be gored to give another "lease used catagory a shot"? LOL. I see numerous low attended catagories already and each shooter within, are tickled pink when their name is called at the awards banquet. Just saying...

 

No new categories, something new gets gets a shot at life and something dead gets buried. I can understand where many voters are coming from here and I want FCGF as much as most but we did go way overboard with so many new categories over a ten year period. Not to gore someone's cow but age and costume based categories should have never been allowed to proliferate or even enter SASS. If I am still shooting at 100, recognise me by bringing an extra cup of coffee to the match, not by creating a new category just for me. It is also a bad idea to add a red boot group just because a couple of shooters wearing red boots want to narrow their field! Yep, want to have a chance at FCGF, then find a way to trim away what lots and lots of fokes now consider way to many existing categories. It would not be hard to divide and subdivide 'SHOOTING' based categories into something much smaller than what we currently have while including one or two more actual shooting categories BUT we gotta quit spending more time passing out paper than we do shooting! I hope each of us live to be a hundred but that should be celebrated at home or at a nice restaurant, not at a monthly shooting match.

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

If you follow the logic that you can shoot FCGF in GF to it's ultimate end we will ALL be shooting BW. It is the only category that allows all three shooting styles. As for dress if you look past the main actors most cas shooters could pass for extras in B-western movies.

 

Oh, and you'll have to allow 73s or Nate Kiowa Jones and Long Hunter are going to be covered up with 92s and Marlins to slick up.

 

I am not saying we should or should not go there. I am just saying that is where you are headed when you say "Oh, that is allowed here so we don't need a new category".

 

Smoke

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter is the only way I've ever shot SASS matches, except when I was shooting Frontiersman Gunfighter. Sooner or later the rest of the world will catch up, but in the meantime, I'll continue shooting FCGF. We now have more clubs that have recognized FCGF and more to come.

 

So, look out SASS, we're comin' in the back door of your saloon.

 

DD-MDA

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I know it's some kind of sacred cow issue here on the Wire...but just how many BP shooters are there...and outta them, how many of 'em are going to shoot Gunfighter???

 

Seriously...

 

Just don't see the Real World demand.

 

[Dick Dastardly SASS #45219]

Howdy Phantom,

 

I'm thinkn' there are a goodly number of us. When you look at the CC you invariably see many photos of Pards shooting Holy Black. Just look at the cover of this month's CC. Of course, we make more interesting images than you piff-ting shooters. Those of us that have taken to shooting the One True Powder are increasing in number and we're bringing lots of heathens along with us.

 

Like I said, we're comin' in the back door. And, we're grinnin' and shootn' with one smokin' gun in each hand.

 

DD-MDA

[Blastmaster]

Black Powder Shooters are like Pipe (tobacco) Smokers....... Both fuss around ALOT with their smoking implement(s), like trying to keep them lit, in good working order and in operations. I think they enjoy the fussing around more than the smoking of the tobacco or the shooting of the guns.

 

Just saying.

 

Blastmaster

[Marshal Phil DeGrave SASS #55202]

I've been holding off in saying this, but it's to the point now where I'm pissed off.

 

I don't know who it was, but I'm calling him/her out. Who decided it would be a good idea to take a proposal that was for adding just 1 category, them bunching it in together with a bunch of other changes? SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING OUR CONGRESSJERKS WOULD DO. And if that sounds like an insult to you, GOOD IT'S SUPOOSED TO.

 

And to all you folks out there that can't think of anything other than "NO NEW CATEGORIES" you should resign if you are a TG!! Part of your "job" is to help this sport grow. SASS is saying the average age of the shooters are going up. Maybe it's because the rules are such that a newbie doesn't feel they can compete right off the bat, and they are discouraged by this. Having a broad category range for everybody might help. And to those of you who say you can shoot BP in GF, wake up! It's NOT THE SAME THING! That's like saying let's just lump all the "Older than 65 folks" together in one class and let them go at it. Can you imagine the reaction to that suggestion?

 

I am disgusted by the happenings in Vegas. I certainly don't feel good about SASS right now, I won't be sending any money to SASS this year, I was hoping to go to EOT also, but I think instead I will go to a place where I (and my money) am/are wanted.

 

I said part of what I wanted to say, but I'm having to hold back a bunch. Now it's your turn, FLAME AWAY!!

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Dear Marshal Phil,

 

Your anger is misplaced. It should not be directed at the TGs.

 

Let's talk next time we are together.

 

 

Allie

 

PS I was going to post earlier in the thread; but decided to not get myself banned.

 

PPS We do not have any FCGFs that I know of locally. Even GFs are scarce (but growing among the ladies). However, the club I represent always votes for more categories and our annual offers more than the SASS list.