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I am kind of curious about proposal #2


Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923

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If anyone could move to any age bracket, why the heck have them at all??????

 

When the age brackets were put in, my understanding is that it was done to protect the older shooters from the younger, or something to that effect. By enforcing the lower end of the age brackets you are saying that the younger guys now need to be protected from the older guys???

 

So lets protect everyone from everyone else, put in mandatory age, weight, height, vision, mobility, and ability categories. Everyone gets a buckle, match fees will double, administrators will go crazy and bow out, and mayhem will ensue.

 

 

Oh yeah, T-ball action cowboy pretending shooting!

 

 

Olen

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

I see both sides of this and my club is kinda split on this since it kinda locks everyone in. We even have a few "cherry pickers" that like to shoot the costume categories because there is less competition there who won't be affected... Item 5 kinda runs with item 2 and if one of the alternates could be to roll "Cowboys" and "Wranglers" (for example) into 49'r if there aren't enuff competitors then it is more workable?

 

I am even having split feelings on this so thought I would address these flat statements:

 

What makes you think that the "New" shooters are in the lower age catagories...and it's pretty sad that you have folks that jump categories to win a monthly match. And when I was growing up in this game, how I placed in my category meant nothing as I was measuring how I was doing against a few people. Beat them and then change my marks...didn't matter what category I was in.

 

I shoot with some beginner types here and there and even if they are "older" they register in their 1st annual as Cowboy or Wrangler since 49'r and Senior have the heavyweights...

 

Oh bull!!! If someone is truly interested in improving they will focus on things other then the category...oy!

 

True... but some like/need the encouragement of not getting smoked every time they go shoot...

 

First off, nothing in life is "Fair"...but one gains some benefits as they get older...just look at your local diner menu next time you're there.

 

Another true statement... kind of... As oldsters are able to enjoy senior discounts at dinner, younger shooters are able to take advantage of the stages that begin in a kneeling position and have 25 yards between shooting positions ;)

 

This last comment is beyond me...try learning about why the age based categories where put in place here in SASS...

 

Let's see... I remember when Traditional, Modern, and Frontier Cartridge were the main selections at a match including EOT, WR, etc. I also remember when a certain dispencing teenager came along and... Let's make 49'r!!

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Gizz, you point is what? Is 49 going to kill you? (probably do better there anyway) You don't like people telling where you can shoot, but yet you follow the rules in place that tell you what you can and can't do, Whether you are a threat to any category is not the point, the point is what if you had a chance and some cherry picker looked and said oh a cat that I can get a top three in and bumps you right out of the hunt, not fair in anyone's book and I see it at the large matches too often, people changing cats for a buckle.

 

KK

 

KK -

I started just as the old categories were being phased out for the new ones that included the age based. I thought it was silly, and chose 'Cowboy' as a silent protest, to say I'll compete against the young fellers. As I've said before, I stay there because there are usually far fewer Cowboys than there are 49ers. Easier to find my scores, and I can usually say I lost out to the feller who won the match, no matter how many are between me and him.

 

While it is true that I would almost certainly place higher above the last place finisher in 49er than I do in Cowboy, I still like shooting cowboy. Now some could say that in cowboy in a smaller match, I might have a chance to actually crack the top ten depending on who shows up, where in 49er that is much less likely. If that makes me a cherry picker then I am a cherry picker. I'd rather finish 18/20 than 47/56.

 

We don't agree on this, and that's fine, but I hope you can at least see why I like to shoot cowboy now ever if you don't understand it. :D

 

And just for the record, if this passes, and the 'open' cat passes, I will likely shoot in the 'open' cat.

 

Grizz

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Here's an idea, get rid of the failed age based categories(that were supposed to "Level the field",Bring back Modern and traditional and every body have fun shooting where their guns allow.

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KK -

I started just as the old categories were being phased out for the new ones that included the age based. I thought it was silly, and chose 'Cowboy' as a silent protest, to say I'll compete against the young fellers. As I've said before, I stay there because there are usually far fewer Cowboys than there are 49ers. Easier to find my scores, and I can usually say I lost out to the feller who won the match, no matter how many are between me and him.

 

While it is true that I would almost certainly place higher above the last place finisher in 49er than I do in Cowboy, I still like shooting cowboy. Now some could say that in cowboy in a smaller match, I might have a chance to actually crack the top ten depending on who shows up, where in 49er that is much less likely. If that makes me a cherry picker then I am a cherry picker. I'd rather finish 18/20 than 47/56.

 

We don't agree on this, and that's fine, but I hope you can at least see why I like to shoot cowboy now ever if you don't understand it. :D

 

And just for the record, if this passes, and the 'open' cat passes, I will likely shoot in the 'open' cat.

 

Grizz

 

 

Howdy Gizz,

We can agree to diagree but the only changes made since you started shooting were, getting rid of Traditional and modern and creating Cowboy and Wrangler, is that what your protesting?

 

KK

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I really wish folks would quite insulting those that put in the time and effort to get good because they want to win.

 

As Bud said: If I couldn't compete I wouldn't have fun and if I didn't have fun I wouldn't compete.

 

:FlagAm:

 

 

Everyone wants to or would like to win,myself included.But some make it sound like if they can't win every time they go out,then why do it.I've won some shoots in my catagory,but lost a lot more than I've won.Still had FUN.Got to dress up and "PLAY" cowboy,shoot real guns at real targets and be around people I enjoy hanging out with.What I'm getting at is this is a GAME....not a profession,and while everyone wants to do good,don't let or make winning be an obsession.

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Howdy Gizz,

We can agree to diagree but the only changes made since you started shooting were, getting rid of Traditional and modern and creating Cowboy and Wrangler, is that what your protesting?

 

KK

 

Pretty much so, the age based cats just seem silly to me until you get into the senior range, but that is just my opinion.

 

Another thing that concerns me if this passes, is that the Cowboy and Wrangler categories will shrink, and 49er will explode since folks will be forces to shoot their age group or choose one of the costume, powder, or shooting style categories.

 

Grizz

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These are the worst proposals for category changes I have seen in my fifteen years in this shooting game. It discriminates against women and older men. I am pushing hard to becoming 81 years of age, and if you tell me I must shoot in that age group, irrespective of my shooting style (Duelist) I can do without SASS and cowboy action shooting. There is an old axiom, "The squeaking wheel gets the grease", and folks, that is what is happening here. Someone tell me why there is a Senior Category, A Senior Duelist Category, and a Silver Senior Category, and if there is not a Senior Gunfighter Category, it just has not squeaked enough. And then tell me why there is not a Silver Senior Duelist Category. Pray tell me that geriatric studies show a maximum decline in physical ability, cognitive and motor skills at age 65, nonsense! Some of you want less categories - eliminate the Silver Senior Category or, for those of you who believe in fairness, split the Elder Statesman/Grand Dame categories, and the proposed Cattle Baron/Baroness categories also. And just for drill let's add duelist and gunfighter to those categories too. More nonsense, or is it? We can always bump you down to fill a category. Because of an innocuous term, "Cherry Picking" used in another thread, we are proposing and insinuating the elderly are being unfair to the younger shooters, and it's only fair that the younger group should have the right to move up. Nonsense! And while we are at it, why are eighteen year old shooters called Juniors? Lets see, they can vote in State, Local, and Federal Elections, in some states they can buy alcoholic beverages, and they can enlist in our armed forces without parental permission. Let's bump them up now. Now the 49ers, Why are they called that? Most of them are in their fifties, So let's have a true fifty category, 50-59 and bump those 49 year olds down , followed by 60-69, 70-79 and 80-infinity?????

 

In another post Professor Fullerspit, forgive me if I misspelled your alias, proposed a matrix based on age, sex, shooting styles and propellant. It is logical and easily modified. For too many years we have added categories haphazardly, the loudest squeaking wheel getting the grease. Now is the time to stop that selective criteria. We do not need proposition number 2.

 

Well I have had my rant. I hope all of you live to be my age and more. I have had a good run at many things, and if proposal 2 passes, I won't miss SASS at all. I will miss the people.

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These are the worst proposals for category changes I have seen in my fifteen years in this shooting game. It discriminates against women and older men. I am pushing hard to becoming 81 years of age, and if you tell me I must shoot in that age group, irrespective of my shooting style (Duelist) I can do without SASS and cowboy action shooting. There is an old axiom, "The squeaking wheel gets the grease", and folks, that is what is happening here. Someone tell me why there is a Senior Category, A Senior Duelist Category, and a Silver Senior Category, and if there is not a Senior Gunfighter Category, it just has not squeaked enough. And then tell me why there is not a Silver Senior Duelist Category. Pray tell me that geriatric studies show a maximum decline in physical ability, cognitive and motor skills at age 65, nonsense! Some of you want less categories - eliminate the Silver Senior Category or, for those of you who believe in fairness, split the Elder Statesman/Grand Dame categories, and the proposed Cattle Baron/Baroness categories also. And just for drill let's add duelist and gunfighter to those categories too. More nonsense, or is it? We can always bump you down to fill a category. Because of an innocuous term, "Cherry Picking" used in another thread, we are proposing and insinuating the elderly are being unfair to the younger shooters, and it's only fair that the younger group should have the right to move up. Nonsense! And while we are at it, why are eighteen year old shooters called Juniors? Lets see, they can vote in State, Local, and Federal Elections, in some states they can buy alcoholic beverages, and they can enlist in our armed forces without parental permission. Let's bump them up now. Now the 49ers, Why are they called that? Most of them are in their fifties, So let's have a true fifty category, 50-59 and bump those 49 year olds down , followed by 60-69, 70-79 and 80-infinity?????

 

In another post Professor Fullerspit, forgive me if I misspelled your alias, proposed a matrix based on age, sex, shooting styles and propellant. It is logical and easily modified. For too many years we have added categories haphazardly, the loudest squeaking wheel getting the grease. Now is the time to stop that selective criteria. We do not need proposition number 2.

 

Well I have had my rant. I hope all of you live to be my age and more. I have had a good run at many things, and if proposal 2 passes, I won't miss SASS at all. I will miss the people.

You still can shoot duelist item #2 doesn't effect shooting style cats.

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I dont know anything about how it used to be. I dont know anything about how it should be.I am 68 and really dont care if I get my butt kicked by a 10 year old or a 85 year old.I love GF and I just want to dress up and shoot.If I do better this shoot than I did last shoot that works for me.The chance of me winning a buckle is slim and none,do I care, sure but that dont change how slow I am.I try very hard at getting better and I am getting a little better,but who I shoot against dont matter to me.I dont care how many Cats. there are,I just want to shoot and enjoy the people,thats my 5 cents.

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I really don't see anything wrong with proposal #2, except the omission of the ladies in some of the categories. The Ladies are an important part of this sport, and there should be a Ladies category to correspond with every men's category. PERIOD!!

 

SO, as it stands, I vote NO.

 

Ad back the ladies to all categories, and I vote YES.

 

As far as I'm concerned, all the proposal's have merit except #3, which would create a hodge-podge, convoluted category with no real direction and would serve NO real purpose. It's passage would nullify much of proposal #2 and simply is a bad idea from the git-go in my view. Like shooting styles, competing within your own age groups, would seem to be the fairest to all concerned. Works well in other diciplines, and there's no reason it won't in CAS.

 

RBK

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Well if you don't know Duece, you must pay closer attention to the wire, he is one of the Top shooters in the country travels and shoots all over the country, all I think he did was voice his opinon, if people CHOSE to listen then fine, but last time I checked we all have free will and can make our own minds up.

 

KK

Not only that but he is one helluva nice guy

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Kiowa Kid: I am aware that I can shoot duelist in the open duelist category and have done so many times. Proposal #2 does in fact prevent me from shooting in the Senior Duelist Category,a category where I am reasonably competitive.So it does affect shooting style.quote name='Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L' timestamp='1322656619' post='2320228']

You still can shoot duelist item #2 doesn't effect shooting style cats.

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Ghost Dancer,

 

Senior Duelist will not be affected from what I can see. It is actually not a SASS catagory if you check the Handbook. So if you can shoot there now then that will not change. Where in this proposal do you see that you would not?

 

Painted Filly

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Age Based Categories

 

The AGE BASED CATEGORIES ARE:

 

Cowboy (any age)

Wrangler (any age)

49er

Senior

L/Senior

Elder Statesmen

Grand Dame

L/Silver Senior

Silver Senior

 

Protected Categories by Age

(you must be at least the age of the category to participate in them)

Grand Dame

Senior

L/Senior

Elder Statesman

Silver Senior

Buckaroo

Junior/Younggun

 

The REST ARE ALL SHOOTING STYLES (these would not be affected by the new proposal if passed)

 

Duelist

Classic

S/Duelist

B Western

Gunfighter

L/Gunfighter

Senior G/F

 

You may be of any age in these Categories except

S/Duelist

Senior G/F

 

 

Black Powder Categories

 

Frontiersman (any age)

Frontier Cartridge (any age)

F/C Duelist (any age)

 

Stumble Leena +

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Willie is correct, but it is buried in the age based description of "Senior"

 

• Seniors are competitors 60 years of age or greater. Senior Duelist is also a recognized

Senior Category. Senior Duelist category shooters may use any SASS–SASS–legal firearm or

ammunition but must shoot Duelist or Double-Duelist Style only,

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Thanks guys,

 

Did not see it buried there when I looked, but I still do not think that it will be affected. Cause if you are old enough to shoot there now then that would not change and if you are too young then you should not be there now as it is.

 

Painted Filly

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Kiowa Kid: I am aware that I can shoot duelist in the open duelist category and have done so many times. Proposal #2 does in fact prevent me from shooting in the Senior Duelist Category,a category where I am reasonably competitive.So it does affect shooting style.quote name='Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L' timestamp='1322656619' post='2320228']

You still can shoot duelist item #2 doesn't effect shooting style cats.

 

You are correct missed your age in initial post, that being said you should really kick butt in your age category, there's nothing that says you can't shoot duelist in Elderstatesmen.

 

KK

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Hang on, let me count them up, mmmm, and ummmm, er, don't forget about mmmmm, hang on, gotta take my shoes off, and mmmmmmmmm, and then there was......

 

Grand total = ZERO.

 

Dave, see my sig!

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Here's what I'd like to see, vote Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter in as a category and no to all the other proposals.

:FlagAm:

 

This has my vote also...

 

I had said it before when the other thread was going strong...

 

Rance <_<

Thinkin' that's what I said :blush:

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I tried category jumping, but I split my pants. Then I swore off anything that has to do with aging. Since then I've felt a lot better, but it could be the cherry-pecker meds they got me on so I won't feel bad if my performance is off.

 

Got more age-related questions already on a SASS card than they do at Mom's retirement village. Just spent the Holiday there... in Cally... right near the nexus of the birthplace of SASS. Lots of smog, packed freeways now 12 lanes wide- glad to get back "west" to CO and TX.

 

Guess they'll go the way of the great Bernanke on this one and just kick the can down the road again. Put lipstick and a skirt on the pig and it still can't dance. Sure hope someone at HQ gets leadership lessons for Christmas.

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

These are the worst proposals for category changes I have seen in my fifteen years in this shooting game. It discriminates against women and older men. I am pushing hard to becoming 81 years of age, and if you tell me I must shoot in that age group, irrespective of my shooting style (Duelist) I can do without SASS and cowboy action shooting. There is an old axiom, "The squeaking wheel gets the grease", and folks, that is what is happening here. Someone tell me why there is a Senior Category, A Senior Duelist Category, and a Silver Senior Category, and if there is not a Senior Gunfighter Category, it just has not squeaked enough. And then tell me why there is not a Silver Senior Duelist Category.

 

Dances with Ghosts,

 

Not to worry, I can't imagine a MD that would make you drop to Duelist and by pass Senior Duelist. If you can fill out a category with more Silvers or Super Silvers more power to ya!! Just contact your MD and see what they can do. With the respect we have for old timers I am sure if 15 or so 80+ Duelists were to descend upon WR or EOT they would be hard pressed not to take care of ya!!

 

Prop 2 isn't gonna do anything to the cherry pickers I know either so I am not sure where I stand on this anymore :unsure:

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