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What is the Correct Call


The Virginia Kid - Life #35492

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RO makes it a no call and gives the shooter a warning to make sure he does the dance on the next stage. if two or more spotters call it it happened ,if only one spotter see's it and the other too don't and the RO don't it did not happen.

 

:wacko:

 

THREE pages!

Take this turkey out of the oven...it's DONE!

 

:rolleyes:

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RO makes it a no call and gives the shooter a warning to make sure he does the dance on the next stage. if two or more spotters call it it happened ,if only one spotter see's it and the other too don't and the RO don't it did not happen.

 

Did you learned this from your RO1 or your RO2 class?

LG

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RO makes it a no call and gives the shooter a warning to make sure he does the dance on the next stage. if two or more spotters call it it happened ,if only one spotter see's it and the other too don't and the RO don't it did not happen.

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Again with the mythical stooopid DANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!

 

:wacko:

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Again with the mythical stooopid DANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!

 

:wacko:

Stand back, He's gonna blow!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Dear New Shooters and Infrequent Wire Visitors,

 

When PaleWolf "speaks, we listen." He is the spokesman for the RO Committee. The ROC clarifies the rules. He answered your question in the second post.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

What Allie Mo said! Geez, people, how many times do you have to be told the answer?

 

 

I am starting to believe something that I previously thought would be impossible: some folks can type without being able to READ!

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I am starting to believe something that I previously thought would be impossible: some folks can type without being able to READ!

 

 

Now that's funny right there :lol: :lol:

 

I thought this was done long time ago.. :rolleyes:

Kinda like poken' a fire to keep it goin'

 

Rance <_<

Thinkin' Lazarus' line is still funny..

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One last time.....

a question that hasn't been asked.

 

Did the offending shooter when he drew the LOADED gun from his crossdraw, breaking the 170, did he in fact sweep the spotter on his left, or maybe the pards waiting at the loading or unloading tables, with the LOADED gun???

If so it's game over it's a MDQ. bye bye SDQ.??? :unsure:

 

And at the end of the day what Palewolf has said is quite correct and there's no getting around it by any type of excuses that some have come up with I think...IMHO.

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One last time.....

a question that hasn't been asked.

Did the offending shooter when he drew the LOADED gun from his crossdraw, breaking the 170, did he in fact sweep the spotter on his left, or maybe the pards waiting at the loading or unloading tables, with the LOADED gun???

If so it's game over it's a MDQ. bye bye SDQ.??? :unsure:

And at the end of the day what Palewolf has said is quite correct and there's no getting around it by any type of excuses that some have come up with I think...IMHO.

You're right. That question hasn't been asked. And as such, I should think it would be the subject of a new topic. However, since you have asked... I'd agree, based on my reading of the rules, the RO would be allowed to make sure the spotter saw only the 170º being broken, not a sweep of another person.

][/color]You make the call as a RO. A shooter is wearing a cross draw holster on the left side. The RO is standing on the right side of the shooter because the shooter is going to be moving left after he shoots the rifle and shotgun so the shooter is moving right to <<<<<< left. There are two spotters on the right of the RO and one spotter standing on the left of the shooter. Here we go at the beep the shooter picks up his rifle shoots it puts it down action open and then picks up the shotgun shoots and puts them down on down on the prop action open and then turns to the left and move about ten steps, stops and pulls the left gun out of the cross draw holster without doing the dance and breaks the 170 and then pulls his right gun out of the strong side holster The only spotter that sees the shooter break the 170 is the one standing on the left side see the shooter. The shooter leaves the line. The RO ask the spotters for hits or misses. The spotter on the left of the shooter goes to the RO and informs the RO the shooter broke the 170 rule. The RO did not see the shooter break the 170 and ask the other two spotters that where on the right of the shooter to see if they saw the shooter break the 170 and they did not. What is the correct call that the RO should make? :o

(A)The shooter is given a Stage DQ for breaking the 170 rule.

 

Or is it:

(B ) Since only one spotter out of three and the RO did not see the shooter break the 170 rule, the RO makes it a no call and gives the shooter a warning to make sure he does the dance on the next stage.

Given the highlited text of the OP, the only call the RO can make is a SDQ. And frankly, I don't believe those that questioned the spotter's call of breaking the 170º were trying to make an excuse for the shooter, but rather, were attempting to ascertain that the spotter made the correct call based on what the muzzle of the firearm did as it cleared leather, not based on the fact that the shooter was wearing a X-draw holster and.or didn't do a "dance". And as I stated a couple of times... since there is no description of where the shooter was wearing said X-draw, it is a legitimate query. Just as the RO can question the spotters on the number of misses, so to may the RO question a safety or procedural call. I don't think the purpose of querying the spotters on their calls is to avoid making a legitimate call, but rather to ensure that the proper call is made.

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Just a thought, but wouldn't it be great if the RO commitee would produce a video showing what draw postions are within the 170 and what are not. that way it would clear up all of this. Just a thought

 

It's NOT needed any more the straight draw holster positions.

 

Please...JUST WATCH THE MUZZLE DIRECTION.

 

oy...

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Classrm6, the OP STATED that the shooter was observed to break the 170! That wasn't the question.

 

Does no one actually READ these posts?

 

 

 

Moderators, PLEASE lock this thread. The dead horse has turned into hamburger!

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Classrm6, the OP STATED that the shooter was observed to break the 170! That wasn't the question.

 

Does no one actually READ these posts?

 

 

 

Moderators, PLEASE lock this thread. The dead horse has turned into hamburger!

well if you would have read my original post, you would see i wasn't commenting on what happened. But on the general state of how people have differant interputations of a simple rule. Just thought it would clear up alot of BS. But i guess thats asking to much.

Regards CRK

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well if you would have read my original post, you would see i wasn't commenting on what happened. But on the general state of how people have differant interputations of a simple rule. Just thought it would clear up alot of BS. But i guess thats asking to much.

Regards CRK

 

Interputation:

An interpretation that amputates the original work, thus either giving it more merit than it originally had, or butchering it to anatomical shreds.

Urban Dictionary

 

Good word!

;)

 

What part of what rule is not clear? :unsure:

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Classrm6, the OP STATED that the shooter was observed to break the 170! That wasn't the question.

 

Does no one actually READ these posts?

 

 

 

Moderators, PLEASE lock this thread. The dead horse has turned into hamburger!

 

 

Why is that? I find it comical as all git-out. If one don't like it then just pass on over it. Simple enuf? :D:D

 

And, I'll take pickles and onions on mine, thanks. Wif mustard please.

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Why does everyone want to end the thread, it has been fun as the original poster suggested?

 

....because shootin' is more fun ;)

 

but, hey...knock yourself out :lol:

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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If that were the case this thread would be less than one page. oy

 

The majority of the confusion is from lack of practical knowledge.

 

Those that think x-drawers must DANCE, TWIST or TURN are ignorant to the SIMPLE RULE ALREADY IN PLACE - DON'T VIOLATE THE 170!!!!

 

And last but not least - don't hijack my TAG!

 

OY!

 

:wacko:

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The majority of the confusion is from lack of practical knowledge.

 

Those that think x-drawers must DANCE, TWIST or TURN are ignorant to the SIMPLE RULE ALREADY IN PLACE - DON'T VIOLATE THE 170!!!!

 

And last but not least - don't hijack my TAG!

 

OY!

 

:wacko:

 

Yup - how do we not know if the DANCE, TWIST, or TURN is simple done cause a pard is simply passing a wee bit of gas?....:lol:

 

:P

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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....because shootin' is more fun ;)

 

but, hey...knock yourself out :lol:

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

This coming from someone with almost 15,000 posts! :lol:;):P

 

Some of us are 'off' from shooting this weekend (only clubs shooting around here are too far either direction from the Wolf Den)

...others are somewhat "off" whether we're shooting or not. :wacko:

 

...but I'd MUCH rather be SHOOTING than mind-wrestling with :rolleyes:

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This coming from someone with almost 15,000 posts! :lol:;):P

 

Some of us are 'off' from shooting this weekend (only clubs shooting around here are too far either direction from the Wolf Den)

...others are somewhat "off" whether we're shooting or not. :wacko:

 

...but I'd MUCH rather be SHOOTING than mind-wrestling with :rolleyes:

 

15000 posts??!!??...what dumb son-of-a....oh hey ...I have that many. :blink: Shame shame shame on me! I'll tone it down - NOT!

 

....I bet I still shoot more than some pards here with a hundred ;):lol: - maybe.

 

Anyway...

 

 

I am very excited to be shootin' with those 'Cowboys' in Norco tomorrow :)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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targits--> XXXXXX more targits--> XXXXX final targits--> XX XX

 

 

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

^

}> firing line <( <(

spotter shooter RO

facing right facing left Facing

shooters back

 

OK, if you are the shooter facing 9 o'clock and perpendicular to the line, yes the spotter sees you perfectly and the RO only sees your back BUT facing this direction it would be impossible to draw fron a right handed cross draw holster without breaking the 180, much less the 170, and only a snake could twist to his right enuff to make it legal and by this time the body would have had to turn enuff for the RO to get a view. The whole scenario is faulty, as it is based on a situation that couldn't be performed legally anyway, by humans as we know of them at this time. DANG_IT, hte #&%$&%$#E%&^ puter *&^&*(^&* messed up my purty lil picture!

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^

 

OK, if you are the shooter facing 9 o'clock and perpendicular to the line, yes the spotter sees you perfectly and the RO only sees your back BUT facing this direction it would be impossible to draw from a right handed cross draw holster without breaking the 180, much less the 170, and only a snake could twist to his right enuff to make it legal and by this time the body would have had to turn enuff for the RO to get a view. The whole scenario is faulty, as it is based on a situation that couldn't be performed legally anyway, by humans as we know of them at this time.

 

WHEW !!!! Hard to believe after all the back-biting, hell raising, mis-information, and pure slandering of individuals in this post that we finally get someone that actually makes sense and understands the rule as written, and can intelligently relate to the situation that the OP related to in post #1.

 

Thank You Slowhand Bob, for an intelligent and civil answer and statement.

 

RBK

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WHEW !!!! Hard to believe after all the back-biting, hell raising, mis-information, and pure slandering of individuals in this post that we finally get someone that actually makes sense and understands the rule as written, and can intelligently relate to the situation that the OP related to in post #1.

 

Thank You Slowhand Bob, for an intelligent and civil answer and statement.

 

RBK

You mean except that he's absolutely WRONG?

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Yup, Palewolf answered it early on.

 

Seems there is too much confusion about "where the body is, where the feet are, etc." The key is where the muzzle is directed.

 

With the "confusion" folks think that this or that pistol must be drawn at such and such a time. But it depends on the draw more than anything.

 

A classic example, if you stand squarely facing down range and have two cross draw holsters - it is still possible to draw either gun and not break the 180 at all - and most can draw and stay well within the 170. I am referring to the Cavalry draw in this case.

 

This misunderstanding (about position rather than muzzle direction) is why some think a shooter with straight draw holsters cannot be moving left and draw the left holster. For my holsters with a slightly forward cant, it is actually easier and safer to draw the left holster since it is already pointing slightly down range.

Summary, it isn't so much where or how you stand, but the muzzle direction.

For many folks where their feet are or how they stand helps them keep it in the safe zone, but it is not required.

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Marauder Said: Summary, it isn't so much where or how you stand, but the muzzle direction

 

PLUS 1

 

This is ALL it's ever been from the beginning. MUZZLE DIRECTION !!

 

The whole argument is where some don't believe that you MUST position your body to where it's possible to draw a pistol without breaking the 170. There are situations where it is impossible to draw a crossdraw without breaking the 170, and we have people here saying that it isn't so. Well, they are just wrong.

 

RBK

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Obviously, lots and lots of folks ain't ever gonna "git" it.

Why are we such masochists to keep it up. Just ditch it. It was a sad day when the cone concept went down in flames, and only and because folks just couldn't "git" it.

 

What we need to do is adopt my "natural draw" concept. Neither Billy the Kid or John Wayne ever worried about any 170. The only thing we should concern ourselves with is this: did the pard draw his pistol safely and naturally as humans have been doing with single actions for at least a century and a half and did he/she do so without muzzling anyone else? If so, NO call.

 

We have a rule proscribing unsafe gun handling. That is all we need. We do not need the 170 and it should be scrapped.

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