Widder, SASS #59054 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A shooter starts a match as a GF. During the match, lets say at the end of the 1st day of shootin, he/she breaks a thumb or has a reoccuring medical problem with the hand that prevents using one of the hands to shoot GF and has to finish the match using one hand to shoot both pistols....duelist style. Or even a 5 stage match and a similar situation pops up during the middle of the match. Could the shooter finish the match as a duelist without being penalized for shooting out of category? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Nice one. Match directors discretion. If allowed with out penalty, I would feel that he should continue to be scored in the GF category, as shooting single duelist is not a competitive advantage. Where as shooting GF for half a match would be a competitive advantage if scores were lumped in with duelists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I believe that there is no reason a shooter registered as a GF can't shoot duelist if the shooter so chooses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I believe that there is no reason a shooter registered as a GF can't shoot duelist if the shooter so chooses. Only "gunfighter style" or double duelist according to the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 GUNFIGHTER • Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. • Only Gunfighter Style or Double Duelist Style may be used. • “Gunfighter Style” is defined as shooting with a revolver in each hand. Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right handed and the other left handed. Shooter handbook page 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT. ELI 35882 GUNFIGHTER Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The hitch being he is having to shoot the pistols with the same hand, which isn't allowed in GF. If it happened to me I would either withdraw or shoot as a Duelist and take the penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A shooter starts a match as a GF. During the match, lets say at the end of the 1st day of shootin, he/she breaks a thumb or has a reoccuring medical problem with the hand that prevents using one of the hands to shoot GF and has to finish the match using one hand to shoot both pistols....duelist style. Or even a 5 stage match and a similar situation pops up during the middle of the match. Could the shooter finish the match as a duelist without being penalized for shooting out of category? ..........Widder I believe that there is no reason a shooter registered as a GF can't shoot duelist if the shooter so chooses. Check the definition of "Duelist" and "Double Duelist". Note that the rules in the SHB for gunfighter only list "double duelist" and even go so far as to define same. DD is not shooting both revolvers with the same hand. That's duelist so "By The Book", the shooter gits zapped for shooting out of catagory. However....... Under Widder's scenario, I think that's "reasonable", and probably no competitive advantage. Besides, any gunfighter who gits hisself or herself beat by a duelist..... Let the poor guy shoot one-handed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Harley,SASS#34953 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Any gunfighter can choose to shoot double duelist at any time,but not "strong hand" duelist. Harley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Just cuz I looked it up... From the RO I manual on the pocket RO card Shooting out of category. e.g., Not wearing the correct items in Classic Cowboy or not making enough smoke in B/P Categories 1st violation is a procedural, 2nd violation is SDQ, 3rd violation is MDQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A shooter starts a match as a GF. Could the shooter finish the match as a duelist without being penalized for shooting out of category? ..........Widder Looks like the shooter is just SOL. No going back to duelist category in the middle of the stream, and can't continue as a duelist. May as well shag brass for rest of match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Move the shooter to the new "Wounded Cowboy" category? Had a feller named "Gunzilla" took first in the NO CLASS category at Comin' At Cha. He was as happy to get that as we were to egg him on. But, surely as the rules are written a GF has to have a gun in each hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Check the definition of "Duelist" and "Double Duelist". Note that the rules in the SHB for gunfighter only list "double duelist" and even go so far as to define same. DD is not shooting both revolvers with the same hand. That's duelist so "By The Book", the shooter gits zapped for shooting out of catagory. Under Widder's scenario, I think that's "reasonable", and probably no competitive advantage. Besides, any gunfighter who gits hisself or herself beat by a duelist..... Let the poor guy shoot one-handed! I ain't got any idea but from readin' the previous posts.. Yep.. I can read I guess this makes the most sense to me... If the Match Director didn't want to be a Hard A$$ If the Match Director wanted to participate in being a HA.. Shooter signing up as "Gunfighter" would get a MDQ for shooting more than one stage as a duelist out of catagory.. Make sense? Rance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 A shooter starts a match as a GF..., he/she breaks a thumb or has a reoccuring medical problem with the hand that prevents using one of the hands to shoot GF and has to finish the match using one hand to shoot both pistols....duelist style... Could the shooter finish the match as Ua duelist without being penalized for shooting out of category? Technically no. Cowboy way yes. Stage is to be shot from horse. Shooter is in wheelchair so he starts beside the horse instead. Does Shoot receive a SOG penalty? No ain't the Cowboy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Well, if he made it through stage 3 OK, but could not use one hand for stage 4, just DNF due to injury. A good safe thing to do. Ifn this Pard was fast enough, then rank points would be favorable for a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I agree with MD.If a shooter injures a hand and really wants to finish the match...let him shoot duelist.He probably won't win the new Caddy doing it,but at least he's got spirit and enjoys this game.KEY WORD....GAME...not livlihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Red Ryder Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Just change his categ from GF to Duelist, with the authorisation of the MD. It's the fairest way to solve this problem. No penalty as it's an injury occuring on the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The only fair way to the other GFers and those registered as Duelist is to allow him to finish the match strong side or weak hand (whichever is the un-injured side) duelist but remain in GF category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Yes, he can continue to shoot and stay within the category of GF. How you ask? Simple....shooter shoots first five rounds with his uninjured hand. Reloads said gun and shoot the next five rounds with the same hand. May not be fast but it works. Wyatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The only fair way to the other GFers and those registered as Duelist is to allow him to finish the match strong side or weak hand (whichever is the un-injured side) duelist but remain in GF category. I'm Possum Skinner and I approve of this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Waitting to hear what PaleWolf has to say on this one. At a first I would say there really is no other category for him to fall into. BW is the only other one that GFer would be allowed. But most would not make what it takes for the rest of the category. And falling into Duelist. Well. He had two loaded pistols out for some of the stages. Which is not legal in Duelist. Duelist can fall into something else pretty easy as shooting Duelist is legal in all the aged base categorys. But a GFer??? Except for BW. You are kind of out there by yourself with no where else to go. Personally. I would not have a problem with them falling into duelist. But not sure that would be the right answer either. Think Lone Dog had it best. Let him finsih as a one handed GFer seems to be the fairest way. For all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Because its a legit question, I've gotta play devils advocate on this one. According to 'my understanding' of the rules, a GF has to shoot a pistol in the left hand and a pistol in the right hand...period! And, there doesn't seem to be any allowances made (that I can find) that allows a GF to switch categories and become a duelist during the middle of a match (local or big). NOW, if the only problem is in the 'thumb' being OOC (out of commission), the GF could shoot one pistol dry and reholster and then use the good hand to assist in the cocking efforts but still shoot the pistol with only one hand on it.....this is assuming no other safety issues are at play. Me thinks, as others have mentioned, that this becomes a MD decision. Hey, ain't that why they get paid those big bucks? EDIT: see Jacknife's appropriate comment below. Thanks for catching that. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Because its a legit question, I've gotta play devils advocate on this one. NOW, if the only problem is in the 'thumb' being OOC (out of commission), the GF could shoot one pistol dry and reholster and then use the good hand to assist in the cocking efforts but still shoot the pistol with only one hand on it.....this is assuming no other safety issues are at play. ..........Widder "must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported," so that wouldn't fit in the rules either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Montana, SASS #23907 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 State level and above he finishes match shooting for fun. Most likely this situation never occurs(even though "anything" is possible). If the shooter is incapacitated too much to use the second hand, he/she probably won't be able to handle the long guns. Likewise, hurt that badly probably convinces shooter to stay on the sidelines anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hi Pards, If I were MD, I would allow the shooter to continue as a GF or switch to an Age-Based category, where he could shoot two-handed or duelist with the good hand. I would not place him in the Duelist category, as I understand that GF style has an advantage over Duelist. I've been told that two-handed shooters have a slight advantage over GFs and the existance of that advantage depends on the stage. I do wish that the other TGs had agreed with my club a few years back when we voted about adding GF to Age-Based categories. That would make this answer less subjective. I firmly believe a "reasonable accomodation" should be made to allow the shooter to finish the match without DNF or DQs. That is the Cowboy Way. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Leave the shooter in Gunfighter, he probably shot good enuf the first half to score high enuf to place anyway. No need to finish the shoot. Thats the GOOD THING ABOUT RANK POINTS, RIGHT? MISS Allie, why ya wanna put him with the ole folks? He dun whooped us the first day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 hmmm, GFs have an advantage over duelists???? hmmmm , ever watch a GF transition after shooting his pistols. ....ever watch duelist shoot his pistols then transition??? hmmmmm ever watch Nuttin? advantage? hmmmmm me thinks the advantage goes to the shooter that works at it the hardest..... Cheyenne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Match Director's discretion. There's bound to be someone that gets their feathers bent over any decision that's made. 1st rule a MD's gotta learn... you ain't gonna make all the people happy all the time. As for whether duelist or GF is an advantage... point is moot. That's all on the individual. This individual is injured... but still able to compete one-handed... but likely not at the top of his game. Leave him in GF and complete the match. Or, move him to duelist for the balance of the match, but declare him ineligible for any category awards; or, maybe better yet, have him reshoot his GF stages as a duelist... and remain eligible for awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 hmmm, GFs have an advantage over duelists???? hmmmm , ever watch a GF transition after shooting his pistols. ....ever watch duelist shoot his pistols then transition??? hmmmmm ever watch Nuttin? advantage? hmmmmm me thinks the advantage goes to the shooter that works at it the hardest..... Cheyenne Of course hard work and p-p-practice play a part. I based my comments on a conversation with a shooter who has won state matches shooting a variety of styles. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Just change his categ from GF to Duelist, with the authorisation of the MD. It's the fairest way to solve this problem. No penalty as it's an injury occuring on the range. Sounds like the most reasonable solution to me. Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hi Pards, If I were MD, I would allow the shooter to continue as a GF or switch to an Age-Based category, where he could shoot two-handed or duelist with the good hand. I would not place him in the Duelist category, as I understand that GF style has an advantage over Duelist. I've been told that two-handed shooters have a slight advantage over GFs and the existance of that advantage depends on the stage. I do wish that the other TGs had agreed with my club a few years back when we voted about adding GF to Age-Based categories. That would make this answer less subjective. I firmly believe a "reasonable accomodation" should be made to allow the shooter to finish the match without DNF or DQs. That is the Cowboy Way. Regards, Allie Mo What the Lady says goes, for me at least! I agree - move the shooter into a more inclusive category and get on with playing! Shadow Catcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 hmmm, GFs have an advantage over duelists???? hmmmm , ever watch a GF transition after shooting his pistols. ....ever watch duelist shoot his pistols then transition??? hmmmmm ever watch Nuttin? advantage? hmmmmm me thinks the advantage goes to the shooter that works at it the hardest..... Cheyenne CC's exactly right. A duelist can pick up his rifle or shotgun with one hand while holstering his last pistol. GF can't. So does that mean I can beat ya now CC??? Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 CC's exactly right. A duelist can pick up his rifle or shotgun with one hand while holstering his last pistol. GF can't. So does that mean I can beat ya now CC??? Rye Rye,,,,,hmmm guess weil hav tu wate til may tuu find out,,,,,,maybe go hed to hed duelist?? course I dunt shooot tham heevy lodes lak u du...... cheyenne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 and to elaborate a bit on the who has tha advantage discussion,,it also depends when the pistols are shot in the senario and a myriade of other issues...course what du I know,,,I've only been shooting GF for 10 yrs,,,,, CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.