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Dubious Don #56333

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It's a "P".

 

I have experienced first hand the poorly written stage, as well as, the poorly read stage. I've experienced the incorrectly read stage. I have experenced the poorly interpreted stage by myself, seeing it clearly one way when it was the other. State level and above ....all "P's". As a shooter, if it's important to you not to receieve a procedural, then you MUST listen to the stage reading, read it yourself, ask questions, and run any "outside the box" ideas past someone else. Otherwise, smile and move on.

 

The above is hard to argue against.. Especially the next to last sentence.

 

Good one MM.

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It's a "P".

 

I have experienced first hand the poorly written stage, as well as, the poorly read stage. I've experienced the incorrectly read stage. I have experenced the poorly interpreted stage by myself, seeing it clearly one way when it was the other. State level and above ....all "P's". As a shooter, if it's important to you not to receieve a procedural, then you MUST listen to the stage reading, read it yourself, ask questions, and run any "outside the box" ideas past someone else. Otherwise, smile and move on.

 

Unfortunately it is. It is up to the shooter to make sure they understand the stage. In this case the stage was read incorrectly and then correctly. There was some discussion and then, when the stage had been read, correctly, and the rest of the group understood, shooting began. I was not the shooter nor was I the reader. I can certainly understand giving the shooter the BOD because (perhaps) he left to load his guns before the stage was completely and correctly read.

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It's a "P".

 

I have experienced first hand the poorly written stage, as well as, the poorly read stage. I've experienced the incorrectly read stage. I have experenced the poorly interpreted stage by myself, seeing it clearly one way when it was the other. State level and above ....all "P's". As a shooter, if it's important to you not to receieve a procedural, then you MUST listen to the stage reading, read it yourself, ask questions, and run any "outside the box" ideas past someone else. Otherwise, smile and move on.

At monthly matches many times written stage descriptions are not provided to the shooter, just a read through. At monthly matches, even when stage descriptions are provided at the loading table, many times they are changed, for a variety of reasons, so the verbal reading is the rule not how written.

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It's a "P".

 

I have experienced first hand the poorly written stage, as well as, the poorly read stage. I've experienced the incorrectly read stage. I have experenced the poorly interpreted stage by myself, seeing it clearly one way when it was the other. State level and above ....all "P's". As a shooter, if it's important to you not to receieve a procedural, then you MUST listen to the stage reading, read it yourself, ask questions, and run any "outside the box" ideas past someone else. Otherwise, smile and move on.

 

 

Max, what happened to "don't be a hardass?"

 

It a reshoot was offered to ya in your examples, would you have taken it?

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Ultimately, it IS the shooter's responsibility to know the course of fire. However, if the RO KNEW that the scenario had been read incorrectly and even suspected the first shooter wasn't privy to the new information, & failed to convey that in some way, then I do believe a reshoot is in order.

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Enforcing the rules correctly is not being a hardass.

 

 

How do you know they were enforced correctly? You are the one that came on here with "whats the correct call", right? So, why ask the question if ya knew the answer beforehand?

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Hello Folks,

 

Thanks to Swiss Kid for providing another view of the event. :blink:

 

I am saddened by the comments implying that the shooter whined to get a reshoot, when that was not stated. :(

 

Folks, your comments make it sound like a reshoot is to be avoided at all costs. :unsure: It's not that big of a deal. Swiss Kid's version of the story adds subjectivity to the appropriate call. It was not a strictly by-the-book situation. If there is any doubt, the benefit should should go to the shooter.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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How do you know they were enforced correctly? You are the one that came on here with "whats the correct call", right? So, why ask the question if ya knew the answer beforehand?

 

I suppose you know all about correct rules with that SASS number.....BR549..........I mean, really. :wacko:

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Ultimately, it IS the shooter's responsibility to know the course of fire. However, if the RO KNEW that the scenario had been read incorrectly and even suspected the first shooter wasn't privy to the new information, & failed to convey that in some way, then I do believe a reshoot is in order.

 

 

Which is why he was offered a reshoot. Makes no difference how they "got" there, he was offered and of course he took it. Don't blame him a bit but you have made an excellent point; it is the shooter's responsibility ultimately and not the fault of the RO so how would you justify a reshoot?

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Which is why he was offered a reshoot. Makes no difference how they "got" there, he was offered and of course he took it. Don't blame him a bit but you have made an excellent point; it is the shooter's responsibility ultimately and not the fault of the RO so how would you justify a reshoot?

Don,

 

In my limited experience at this... there's an element of doin' the right thing at work. Rules be damned... the shooter was mis-informed... and shot a different stage than the rest of the shooters. Whether the stage he shot was easier or harder is of little consequence... it was different. Correcting that is "the right thing to do." Re-shoots are always a crap shoot, you might do better or worse, but getting the opportunity to shoot the stage correctly (as did the balance of the competitors), is of paramount performance. If you feel the need to hang your hat on something... use "RO Interference". No, it doesn't pass muster as meeting the "letter of the law"... but it sure passes the "spirit of the law" test... it's "the cowboy way."

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Don,

 

In my limited experience at this... there's an element of doin' the right thing at work. Rules be damned... the shooter was mis-informed... and shot a different stage than the rest of the shooters. Whether the stage he shot was easier or harder is of little consequence... it was different. Correcting that is "the right thing to do." Re-shoots are always a crap shoot, you might do better or worse, but getting the opportunity to shoot the stage correctly (as did the balance of the competitors), is of paramount performance. If you feel the need to hang your hat on something... use "RO Interference". No, it doesn't pass muster as meeting the "letter of the law"... but it sure passes the "spirit of the law" test... it's "the cowboy way."

 

That works for me! ;)

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Which is why he was offered a reshoot. Makes no difference how they "got" there, he was offered and of course he took it. Don't blame him a bit but you have made an excellent point; it is the shooter's responsibility ultimately and not the fault of the RO so how would you justify a reshoot?

Hi Don,

 

I will take "a stab" at this as I frequently shoot early.

 

I never read the scenarios at a monthly match, I rely on the reading. I always read them ahead of time at an annual and have my booklet in hand during the reading. If the reading was different than my understanding, I would ask questions. If I get a P then, it is on me.

 

So, this situation is more likely to happen to ME at a monthly, where I would listen to the reading, and then go load. I would have no way of knowing if the reading was wrong unless the PM/reader called me back. I think the PM/reader and TO may have let the shooter down. The shooter was just trying to help get the shooting started and expedite the stage flow.

 

I am not the best TO and I realize they are not all created equal. However, I believe the best have empathy for the shooter's situation. We cannot know for sure if the PM or TO were aware ahead of time that the shooter missed the full reading. That is where benefit of the doubt comes in. I believe that the PM/reader should ensure that all posse members are present for the reading. Thankfully, that is what I usually see happen at matches.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who really got a bee in her bonnet over this thread" Mo

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Update:

 

The shooter in question crashed and burned miserably in the reshoot.

To make things worse, we offered him a reshoot on all the remaining stages.... :lol:

 

Swiss

Well that (crash and burn on reshoots) happens. Luckily, that is clearly on the shooter. :unsure: Surely you jest on the reshoot part. :unsure:

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I shoot at this club every month. After the stage description is read it is placed on the loading table so that the shooters have a chance to read it while they are waiting to shoot. If they don't understand how it is written they have plenty of time to ask the other shooters at the table to explain it to them before they go up to shoot. No excuses for not understanding how the stage is supposed to be shot. Wouldn't have gotten a reshoot on the posse I was on no matter how much whinning and foot stomping they did.

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Dear Abby:

 

I was shooting a stage at the Nip Pickers round up this last weekend. The T.O.'s breath was so bad that I was totally distracted, and screwed up the whole scenario. I was awarded a Proceedural. Shouldn't I have had a restart or a reshoot due to R.O. interference?

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I shoot at this club every month. After the stage description is read it is placed on the loading table so that the shooters have a chance to read it while they are waiting to shoot. If they don't understand how it is written they have plenty of time to ask the other shooters at the table to explain it to them before they go up to shoot. No excuses for not understanding how the stage is supposed to be shot. Wouldn't have gotten a reshoot on the posse I was on no matter how much whinning and foot stomping they did.

 

 

It wasn't about not understanding the scenario.

It was read the wrong way. By the time the stage description was placed back on the loading table,

the shooter was already staging his guns.

And once more for the people who can't read: He never stomped his feet or asked for a reshoot!

 

Swiss

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Max, what happened to "don't be a hardass?"

I have shot at matches in a good portion of the these United States. I've been RO'd by "no-names" and by World Champions and I can honestly say that in all my travels Max Montana is by far the best RO I've had the pleasure to shoot with.

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