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Question: SASS Rules & Holsters?


Willy D

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Hello,

 

I am new to SASS/CAS and am deciding if this is something I "REALLY" want to do.

 

If I were to become a member & shoot the matches locally, My question is: If my holster & belt set-up were the cavalry type with flap covered (flap secured) holsters, would I have to have the flap down & secured (retention) prior to draw and shoot from these type of holsters or could they be used with the flaps tucked back into the belt?

 

I think I am really going to enjoy SASS/CAS events, but this part is bugging me in me deciding what sort of belt/holster rig I would like. I do know in the local 3-gun & IDPA rules a holster that has a securing device such as a shroud, hood, flap or other retention device MUST be utilized (as in actively engaged) prior to drawing & shooting.

 

Thank you,

 

William

:FlagAm:

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You need two pistols. I think you could tuck the flaps under the belt.

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Willy D , what they do at 3-gun and IPSC will have little bearing on SASS/CAS matches. I do not think you would be happy with the type of rig you are descibing. Best go out to some matches and see what folks are using , get some ideas before starting to put together a rig.

Life will be easier that way. Rex :D

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Howdy

 

Many of us use holsters that have a leather strap that slips over the hammer to secure the gun. During normal range operations while we are going about our normal posse duties of spotting and shagging brass we keep the strap over the hammer to keep the gun in place. When we load our pistols at the loading table we slip the hammer strap off the hammer so we can pull our pistols and shoot. Once we are done with the stage and have unloaded our guns at the unloading table we reholster and slip the hammer strap in place again.

 

You can see in this photo of my rig the straps are over my hammers. They are easily adjusted and slip right off when I holster my guns at the loading table.

 

 

Holsters

 

The idea is that while walking around with our guns unloaded, the hammer strap gives extra security to keep the gun in place while bending over to pick up brass and stuff like that. When you shoot, you want the gun to come out easily with no interference. If the shooter walks through the shooting stage, the pistols will stay in place. You will see though that serious competitors who run from shooting position to shooting position usually have their hands on their guns while running, so they don't bounce out of the holsters. Dropping a loaded gun is a match DQ and is the end of your day. Dropping an unloaded gun is a less serious offense.

 

I can't remember the last time I saw anybody with a flap holster. They just are not very practical for our game. Folding the cover over as you describe is not very reliable, the flap often comes loose and is in the way when you want to reholster in a hurry.

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You don't mention how you plan on drawing your revolvers (Yes Toto you will need two) but use of a flap holster suggests using a cavalry twist draw. Other than being somewhat slow this method provokes lots of controversey about sweeps.

 

You will do yourself a BIG favor along with SAVING money by attending some CAS matches first. You should quickly get a idea on what works well.

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Hello,

 

I am new to SASS/CAS and am deciding if this is something I "REALLY" want to do.

 

If I were to become a member & shoot the matches locally, My question is: If my holster & belt set-up were the cavalry type with flap covered (flap secured) holsters, would I have to have the flap down & secured (retention) prior to draw and shoot from these type of holsters or could they be used with the flaps tucked back into the belt?

 

I think I am really going to enjoy SASS/CAS events, but this part is bugging me in me deciding what sort of belt/holster rig I would like. I do know in the local 3-gun & IDPA rules a holster that has a securing device such as a shroud, hood, flap or other retention device MUST be utilized (as in actively engaged) prior to drawing & shooting.

 

Thank you,

 

William

:FlagAm:

 

 

To simply answer your question... Yes you can fold the flap back, or hook it, secure it, cut it off, leave it unsecured, just whatever you wish to do,, all legal to do in SASS.

 

Blastmaster

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To simply answer your question... Yes you can fold the flap back, or hook it, secure it, cut it off, leave it unsecured, just whatever you wish to do,, all legal to do in SASS.

 

Blastmaster

 

 

Yep.

 

But. Please attend a few matches in your area BEFORE you buy anything.

Holsters, guns, anything.

 

Because once you see a match or two. You may change your mind on just what you want.

Could save you a lot of time and money to hit a few matchs first.

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You see a lot of new shooters get off on the wrong foot with inappropriate (but legal) leather and guns that are difficult to use. They either quickly give up the sport or buy a second set of everything. This can be avoided by attending matches and seeing what works well and what doesn't work well. At most matches folks will let you try various guns to see what fits and works for you.

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YES, it is all about you on this one so do what most pleases you with the holsters. There is a small minority in SASS that uses guns and gear that are more suited to playing period correct Frontiersman than for realistic competition. To call it wrong in the beginning can be an expensive mistake, especially if you use guns and equipment that do not sell well when you see your mistake. Go to one or two larger matches, if available, and see what looks like the most fun, ask more questions here and let us know what you want to get out of SASS? Right now your options are wide open for you to try and make a run for the world title or simply ride alongside of Jose Wells in pursuit of them damn back shootin Redlegs!

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You cannot read about this sport and learn what can be done or what you will enjoy about it. The ONLY way to make the best decisions regarding gear is to attend matches.

 

Go to matches. Get to know people. Look at the gear. Handle the guns. If you do it any other way, you WILL end up regretting doing so.

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Gets a bit spendy if you buy wrong and then want to rectify it. At swap meets, I've seen some shooters with 3-6 rigs for sale. My first holsters were inexpensive and wouldn't retain a gun if I fell (mayber even ran without hanging on to them). I've gone down several times in the past year without losing a gun and yet they draw easily.

Some categories are restrictive with holsters, such as BW or gunfighter.

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I know a shooter that portrays a civil war calvary person with full flap holsters. It is his gig, his personna, his fantacy, his game. Glad to shoot with him and see him shoot as well.. Perhaps the OP is cut from the same cloth.

 

Blastmaster

 

Nail on the head there BlastMaster!

 

I've served in the Army for 14 years with a couple deployments overseas as an EOD Team Leader and 3-gun is getting not as fun for me anymore.

 

I understand that there are games within SASS/CAS but I am going to just hang about, smile, chit chat & talk about history with some shooting involved.

 

However, I don't want to go the direction I am if I have draw from full retention with both pistols (in succession) from.

 

I enjoy shooting (& hitting! [WINK]) but I really am not competitive when it comes to shooting (having survived & won some real world two way range encounters!)

 

I am more about the camaraderie of the sport & history than the competition.

 

Thank you for all the answers and advice!

 

~William

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Howdy Again

 

Just one more word of advice and then I will shut up.

 

CAS is not historical reenactment. It is a fantasy shooting sport. Don't expect too much in the way of meeting history buffs and shooting reenactments of events from history. Sometimes reenactors from other disciplines try CAS and they get disappointed because there is not a whole lot of history being emphasized. To be sure, just about everybody in CAS likes to watch Westerns, but there are not a whole lot of shooters who are deeply versed in Western history. Attend a few matches and see if you like it. You certainly don't have to be interested in competition to enjoy CAS, and you can certainly do it from a historical perspective, just don't be disappointed if you are one of the only history buffs there.

 

For instance, I don't know a whole lot about Western history myself. I just love dressing up like a cowboy, strapping on a pair of Colts, shooting Black Powder, and saying 'Howdy' all day. And I love shooting old guns.

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Howdy Again

 

Just one more word of advice and then I will shut up.

 

CAS is not historical reenactment. It is a fantasy shooting sport. Don't expect too much in the way of meeting history buffs and shooting reenactments of events from history. Sometimes reenactors from other disciplines try CAS and they get disappointed because there is not a whole lot of history being emphasized. To be sure, just about everybody in CAS likes to watch Westerns, but there are not a whole lot of shooters who are deeply versed in Western history. Attend a few matches and see if you like it. You certainly don't have to be interested in competition to enjoy CAS, and you can certainly do it from a historical perspective, just don't be disappointed if you are one of the only history buffs there.

 

For instance, I don't know a whole lot about Western history myself. I just love dressing up like a cowboy, strapping on a pair of Colts, shooting Black Powder, and saying 'Howdy' all day. And I love shooting old guns.

 

I hear you! I grew up "country" in the sticks of Oklahoma, so this is a natural evolution for me to return to.

 

I have been to a few Fort Bridger Rondezvous' up here and I think I will like the sport, given what it is: A fantasy old west shooting sport.

 

I can suspend reality enough to let go, enjoy it for what it is - rather than try & suspend belief in modern 3-gun shooting with no tactics and even poorer scenarios (for me).

 

My military experiences would not allow me to enjoy fantasy modern 3-gun shooting as much as I think I will be able to enjoy CAS/SASS.

 

Thanks!

 

William

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Howdy, Pard,

There are several books on the subject of Cowboy Action Shooting[tm]. But I completely concur with going to several matches before settling on and buying equipment.

 

There are a number of us who portray Army troopers (we call ourselves The Grand Army of the Frontier). Some do use regulation butt-forward flap (full or half-, depending on the timeframe we are portraying). But the use of the cavalry or twist-draw, while legal if carefully done, can sometimes prove problematic if you get an RO who is unfamiliar with it. Personally, I use a pair of non-regulation holsters, without flaps. The strong-side is worn with the gun butt to the rear, and is a copy of one proposed (and apparently used by his troops) by a company commander, Capt. Fachet, Co. G, 8th Cav. in the 1880's). It was rejected by Ordnance, but apparently he issued them to his troopers in Arizona. The other holster is a simple slim jim for a shorter-barreled sixgun, worn for a crossdraw on the left side.

 

Take your time, Pard!

 

Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! :FlagAm:

 

Your Pard,

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Nothing sweeter than a Navy or Army Colt in a well designed Slim Jim and if you get your guns and leather right, you will not be giving up much to the black powder cartridge guys who are using more modern equipment designs. Though I like a bit of fantasy in my play, I much prefer the semi-realistic modern movies over the old B-Western and early Matinee genre. Sometimes we have to squint extra hard when John Wayne is defending the Alamo with his trusty '92 Winchester!

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Nothing sweeter than a Navy or Army Colt in a well designed Slim Jim and if you get your guns and leather right, you will not be giving up much to the black powder cartridge guys who are using more modern equipment designs. Though I like a bit of fantasy in my play, I much prefer the semi-realistic modern movies over the old B-Western and early Matinee genre. Sometimes we have to squint extra hard when John Wayne is defending the Alamo with his trusty '92 Winchester!

 

Naw! He used a muzzleloader in "The Alamo". The '92 sans forearm was reserved for the 1850's period in "The Comanchero"! ;) Supposed to be a Henry, which didn't come out until later either. Maybe it was supposed to be a Volcanic or a Jennings Volitional Repeater.

 

Keep squintin'!

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Willy D,

 

I occasionally "dress the part" in Civil War or Indian War garb and sometimes do use US cavalry issue flapped holsters (although they are not required) for 1860 Army or 1851 Navy or 1875 Schofields. I wear them butt backwards (I know, I know :blush: ) and tuck the flaps under my belt. I never had a problem doing it this way.

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Thank You six shot & Thank you Trailrider - Trailrider I would be interested to view some photos of said holster or if you could share some references I might be able to access & peruse.

 

Thank you folks for your kind words & assistance!

 

William

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Willy D,

 

I have the proud distinction of coming in last at every match I've shot. Couldn't care less about speed, but I'm still chasing a clean match. The one blue ribbon I have is because I was the only shooter in my category.

 

That said, my starting persona was a retired/discharged army officer, which gave me the latitude to mix and match all sorts of clothing and equipment. Military-style gun leather is often less expensive, but I found that the flap got to be a pain so now the belt and buckle are the only survivors from my original persona (BTW, Dell's Leather Works is the only source I found for "red brass" belt buckles - the red brass gives depth to the brass and makes the detailing stand out much better). I've switched my holsters over to unlined, flapless types; they're not too expensive, are adequate for my needs, and I can afford to spend a little extra on carved designs.

 

Also BTW, you'll get to argue *lots* of history. Just keep reading the wire and you'll find that the Tutt-Hickock fight, the OK Corral and several other incidents regularly get hauled out and over-analyzed. On the other hand, cattle trails, the railroads, etc, not so much. You just have to remember that this is a game, started by men who grew up on Annie Oakley, Roy Rodgers and the Lone Ranger. No one here is on a mission to educate anybody about anything, except maybe gun safety.

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PW, a really great video and proof that even complicated techniques, when reduced to the basics, can be surprisingly simple and when combined with repetition can be developed into speed. I asked a WIRE question awhile back concerning what represents a true Slim Jim and low and behold one leather crafter, from afar, posted photos of a beautiful rig with a holster that splits the generations. This is a truly beautiful hybrid between the old Slim Jim and the early Mexican Double Loops that replaced them. Try not to drool on your screen while viewing this work of art, and also tell me what you think of that accompanying knife. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,40547.0.html

 

PS: The beauty is in the design and finish and these could be duplicated by most holster makers doing quality custom work. You could likely just show your favorite custom maker the picture if you wanted one.

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Thank You six shot & Thank you Trailrider - Trailrider I would be interested to view some photos of said holster or if you could share some references I might be able to access & peruse.

 

Thank you folks for your kind words & assistance!

 

William

 

Willy,

 

Here is a link to two photos of military flap holsters I wear for a pair of 1860 Army Richard Mason conversions showing the flap tucked up under my belt. You can dye the inside of the flap black if you don't like the look of the underside of the flap which shows.

 

holsters

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Howdy:

 

I have several holster such as you mention, i.e., with flaps. I use them with my 58 Remmies. Normally, I fold the flap over the belt as you mentioned. OK, fast I am not. If the flap comes out of the belt (I can think of maybe one time), I simply use the free hand to lift it and place the pistol back in the holster. It is no big deal - remember, fast is not my objective, being accurate and shooting are my two objectives.

 

I also do not see it being prohibitively expensive in having several holsters of various types. There is a couple of holsters for every pocket book, some expensive, some not. I feel no need to mortgage the home to go and shoot 50 to 100 rounds at steel targets. JMHO and, of course, there are those who would vehemently disagree - YMMV. :-)

 

STL Suomi

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